In the loony bin?

[Dream Weaver]

-empty-

 

[nen888]

..smarter people than me have long pondered this question..

Jedi Master Qui-Gon Jin said: "Your focus determines your reality."

.

 

[nen888]

..ps..i think it's only the 'loony bin' if you're having a really bad time with the question..

 

[mmcakes]

If you can say you're a brain in a vat, then how can you be a brain in a vat?

 

[vovin]

This is a classical philosophical conundrum. How do I know the whole world, and all you here at the nexus isn't a total figment of "my" imagination. It has been contemplated for Eons. The issue is with the current way of humans seeing the universe, you can't. It all falls down to ones fundamental perception of this odious word 'reality'.

 

[mindatlarge1389]

i feel kind of the same except my thoughts centered around deja vu and how i have it all the time at least once a month for as long as i can remember especially about the first time i try psychedelics (salvia, lsd , dmt to name a few)

i feel like i dont know that this is real iv always kinda thought iv been dead for a wile and i just relive the same life and thats why i can see what will be. its that or i can see flashes like 2-4 sec. of video of my life some times take 5 or more years later to actually happen. that and i always trust my gut and its always right like iv done it before. when i say it like that i think i should be in the loony bin with you

 

[Global]

There are so many aspects of life and reality that are ultimately not provable. We like to think we have the answers to a lot of these questions, and for many if we tell ourselves it's true and conclusive enough, that cognitive dissonance can die down, so we end up with some rigid mental molds as opposed to being able to move fluidly in one's mind between possibilities. This is probably reflected through life and perception immensely.

I remember I was actually very small when I first had that same question as to whether or not I was the only one thinking, and everyone else was simply akin to living robots or part of my imagination or something of the sort. I think it's a perfectly natural thought at that and reflects our tendency as a species to egocentrically project.

 

[arcanum]

Your actions detrermine your reality, take an average day for example.
A. you stay in, have a few beers watch some tv. go to bed.
B. Instead of staying in, you go outside visit a local shopping mall with a masons hammer and start smashing up everything you see.

Example A, will not change anything much in your little everyday reality. example B. will cause a radical shift in your day to day reality. = arrestation, prison or "loony Bin".

Reality is the "here and now" in the physical world for "everyone". Though you are the master of your own destiny ( ultimate reality as individually experienced).

 

[easyrider]

You know, I personally think the ontological theory of solipsism is a mentally draining and detrimental one overall for a human being. True or untrue, I think any individual who sincerely takes this view to heart would have serious difficulties functioning throughout life. I doubt you're a true believer of solipsism, because you wouldn't have bothered asking us in the first place for our opinions. For who are we to a solipsist, but mere aspects of his/her mind? You're simply flirting with the idea, and there's nothing wrong with that. There's a whole list of technicalities which fall under this idea, amongst arguments and counter-arguments. The same thing goes for skeptics; there's only local skeptics, no functional person is a global skeptic, for global skeptics would need protection/intervention as they would refuse the testimony of the senses, e.g., Pyrrho of Elis needed constant guidance in order to protect himself from falling over precipices.

 

[gibran2]

Regarding existence, the only thing we know for certain is that consciousness exists. We can’t assign consciousness to a person or thing. You can’t say with certainty “I” am conscious, since there might be no “I”.

We function based on what appears to be, not based on what is. We can’t know anything beyond what appears to be.

So… Enjoy the illusion!

 

[arcanum]

Regarding existence, the only thing we know for certain is that consciousness exists. We can’t assign consciousness to a person or thing. You can’t say with certainty “I” am conscious, since there might be no “I”.

We function based on what appears to be, not based on what is. We can’t know anything beyond what appears to be.

So… Enjoy the illusion!

Even though I know where you are coming from with the above observations.
I would think most people would have difficulty getting their head around this reasoning.
Even if it was an illusion, it's a necessary one to enable things to function in the real world. Family, social structure, personal ambition are all based on a strong ontological security.

2% of the worlds population may experience the kind of phenomena you describe, collectively they are labeled Schizophrenic, or as the renowned psychiatrist R.D: Laing, described as "Ontological insecurity", where the sense of self ( "I") is so fragile that a series of vain attempts are made to fence of the despair that this lack of "self" induces.
Multiple personalities, paranoia and delusions. The schizophrenic has a very hard time functioning in the real world. They often need help from people with a strong and unwavering conviction of who they are and what their purpose is.

 

[daedaloops]

Good post, I know exactly what you're feeling man.

Perhaps I was even in a mental ward and I had conjured up the world around me to keep my mind entertained?

I've been thinking about this alot lately. The scary thing is that on my first really strong psychedelic trip I actually saw glimpses of this, I was really in a hellish mental hospital and it felt so real, like knowing that that was the real reality, all of this other crap is just something I've created for myself so I don't have to face the truth. Some psychedelic just forced me to wake up for a while.

I've been trying to get more clues ever since, but I've come to accept that it was just a very realistic hallucination. But I can never know for sure. But if it was real, then none of what I write here makes any difference because I'm writing it on an imaginary forum, to imaginary people.

But I guess I could still call it reality, because reality is subjective and it's your personal experiences that define your reality for you. And I really prefer this place to that weird mental hospital.

 

[stolenface]

Your actions detrermine your reality, take an average day for example.
A. you stay in, have a few beers watch some tv. go to bed.
B. Instead of staying in, you go outside visit a local shopping mall with a masons hammer and start smashing up everything you see.

Example A, will not change anything much in your little everyday reality. example B. will cause a radical shift in your day to day reality. = arrestation, prison or "loony Bin".

Reality is the "here and now" in the physical world for "everyone". Though you are the master of your own destiny ( ultimate reality as individually experienced).

A few weeks back i actually went with choice B.While being very, very ,very drunk I dropped 5 hits of some scooby doo blotter before heading to 7 eleven .I just so happened to start peaking as we arrived and for some strage reason i decided to "test" my reality. My friends and I were in the drink isle when i decided to grab as many energy drinks as i could and smash them on the ground. My friend told me I could not do this, in my mind i decided he was wrong and since it was "my" reality kept on smashing,as I -"could " alter this reality. Luckily I was not arrested, although Im sure the clerk was a little startled.

 

[Guyomech]

Ballzdeep: totally awesome. I envy your 7-11 experience- I bet that felt amazing.

We all have to live with this enormous blind spot. Psychedelics seem to temporarily shrink that spot, but any greater understandings reached during that moment of shrinkage don't seem to last. I think this particular interpretation is not uncommon among psychedelic users: "I am the universe. My normal everyday self is just a tiny part of me. So is everyone else." coming down from this, it's easy to fall into either a dark solopsism or a misguided "I am God" interpretation. Neither approach is very useful. Perhaps you are creating the universe, but that's a really big "you", not the little everyday you. We are both infinite and tiny... It's probably healthy to always acknowledge both aspects.

 

[Sky Motion]

How can you be sure you exist?

 

[Guyomech]

I don't tink we can. The definition of "existence" is too slippery a thing to prove. Part of life is living with uncertainty. To many of us, this mystery is a great thing of wonder and something to be thankful for.

I once read this neurologist's interpretation of consciousness- where each moment we die and are reborn, and that our burden of memories is what allows us an illusion of continuity. That every moment births a whole new self. Waking up after a long nights sleep is a more extreme example- we quickly rebuild our sense of who we are as we wake up and reconnect with our memories of what we like, what our day will consist of, what we ultimately want. But really it's like passing the baton: yesterday's self is long gone, and today's self will change in tiny ways a billion times by the end of the day.

I'm entirely comfortable with the notion of plastic selfhood- anyone who trips a lot needs to be. But many feel the need for a rock solid sense of self- which is like trying to build a monument out of water.

 

[bindu]

You can NEVER be sure that anything besides yourself exists. You can't even be so sure of that, but more on that in a different post. To prove someone else's existence, you must have access to their mind, which you don't. My point, this was a simple way to determine that because I cannot access someone else's mind,...

It is very possible to access somones mind if both people can access their electromagnetic fields on a frequency together.

Suddenly never alone.

 

[Electric Kool-Aid]

I thought of this years ago.

1) Waking up from sleep and parts of my life were just a dream. So say 20 years or so didn't happen.
2) what if we were living the Truman show. Where it is "my turn" to be the one who lives and is under the spotlight. Then they congradulate me when I am done.
3) I am driving in Canada and turn a corner and the road changed and looks different, I am now in Paris. (Or where ever it chooses)

 

[gerdi]

This idea is very introspective and cannot be true for various reasons. firstly our constructed reality is the production of others , go to any construction site and you will see what i mean. You know that you do not have control of those beings and so there actual construction of that part of reality has never been in your control. You could stay that most real world reality is an autonomous creation in a sub concious manner but this is tantamount to the chicken and egg which will only end in a paradox.

Many people enjoy this idea no matter how inconclusive it will always end. Primarily because it free's you from the responsibility of your actions. This mind set is common in psychopaths and is actually fairly helpful ( for yourself only ) in a business context. It is no doubt though to hold this idea to even be slightly true you will only hurt people in which you interact.

I could throw in the uncertianty principle here but because that only relates to quantum mechanics i think it might be out of context. i will end with this though

"Only one thing is certain--that is, nothing is certain. If this statement is true, it is also false."

 

[Ramabodhi]

Ive spent myself many a time juggling this paradox.

Eventually the realization that "nothing can be known" left my pursuit of truth paralyzed- until I abandoned philosophy for wisdom. Philosophy is like a juggling and rearranging of mental geometry,'where wisdom in like a crystallization of integrated experience.

It appears that the only thing we can be sure of is that there is an experience happening, which Is attributed to "my" perceptions. Essentially, what McKenna calls the "felt presence of immediate experience."

If the fact that there is an experience happening is all I can be sure of, I have been led away from the "is this real" frame of mind, to the "how is this real" state of mind.

There can be existence, or non existence, or both. Either way, it's being experienced which makes it somehow real.

If past life regressions, dreams and fantasy / imagination / visualization can lead to experiences that will liberate ailments, then the reality of the experience is less a concern than HOW it's real.

This frame allows me to live with the paradox while continuing to explore new horizons. That is, until new paradox leads to a new model, hopefully leading to the end of models and immersion in pure experience of the moment.

Terence paraphrases, "a coincidence is what you have left over after applying a bad theory.". I'd bet the same applies to paradox.