I've heard both can be somewhat helpful with insomnia, but I've also heard yay and nay on mixing them and can't find a conclusive answer some say because melatonin is in the seratonin line up it would be bad but, but also heard the reverse of this. Can anyone preferrably someone whos tried the mix confirm or deny their compatibility?
-
Members of the previous forum can retrieve their temporary password here, (login and check your PM).
Insomnia Help - Is melatonin safe to use with Syrian rue?
- Thread starter TOXSIN
- Start date
Nathanial.Dread
Esteemed member
- Merits
- 42
I'm a lifetime insomnia sufferer who's tried basically every method (legal and illegal) to get a normal amount of sleep.
I'm not crazy about melatonin personally, (I get nightmares), but as far as I know, it has a pretty good safety profile. The things I know that it doesn't play well with are:
- anticoagulants
- immunosuppressents
- diabetes medication
- birth control pills
(this from Mayo Clinic)
Are you taking serotonin supplements?
I have taken melatonin with 5-HTP and been physically fine.
If someone else wants to also weigh in, the might have more information, or if you could clarify exactly what it is that you're taking, I might be able to give a more precise answer.
I'm not crazy about melatonin personally, (I get nightmares), but as far as I know, it has a pretty good safety profile. The things I know that it doesn't play well with are:
- anticoagulants
- immunosuppressents
- diabetes medication
- birth control pills
(this from Mayo Clinic)
Are you taking serotonin supplements?
I have taken melatonin with 5-HTP and been physically fine.
If someone else wants to also weigh in, the might have more information, or if you could clarify exactly what it is that you're taking, I might be able to give a more precise answer.
Nathanial.Dread
Esteemed member
- Merits
- 42
What exactly are you mixing melatonin with? Ayahuasca? Harmaline?
There's some evidence that mixing melatonin and MAOIs can result is psychedelic effects, although I have never experienced this firsthand.
Harmaline itself isn't great for insomnia (at least not in my experience). It is a sedative, but instead of falling asleep, you sort of enter a dream-like trance that is good for meditation but not particularly restful.
I would say give melatonin a try by itself, and if it doesn't do the trick, maybe then you might think about mixing and matching, but for enough people, melatonin on its own seems to do the trick.
There's some evidence that mixing melatonin and MAOIs can result is psychedelic effects, although I have never experienced this firsthand.
Harmaline itself isn't great for insomnia (at least not in my experience). It is a sedative, but instead of falling asleep, you sort of enter a dream-like trance that is good for meditation but not particularly restful.
I would say give melatonin a try by itself, and if it doesn't do the trick, maybe then you might think about mixing and matching, but for enough people, melatonin on its own seems to do the trick.
- Merits
- 42
Syrian rue contains several different harmala alkaloids which have differing effects on the cytochrome P450 enzyme system including :
1.Induction of 3A4 and 1A2
2.Acting as a substrate (ie are processed) at 1A1 and 1A2
Melatonin is mainly metabolised by CYP1A subclasses, so the potential exists for competition between harmala alkaloids and melatonin at this subclass which could amplify the effects of either, or both.
1.Induction of 3A4 and 1A2
2.Acting as a substrate (ie are processed) at 1A1 and 1A2
Melatonin is mainly metabolised by CYP1A subclasses, so the potential exists for competition between harmala alkaloids and melatonin at this subclass which could amplify the effects of either, or both.
- Merits
- 42
that combination just makes me trip all night long. I dont think it's dangerous but it's not something I would do if I need sleep..it's something I do when I want to sort of lay in bed trip all night..have weird dreams and wake up with weird visions on and off throughout the night.
- Merits
- 137
I sleep fine on that combination, but if its a high dose of rue i'll be staying mostly awake. I think the dosage is important to clarify when talking about whether or not one can sleep on it...the conversation just makes no sense without that background context.
Anyways, I've mixed them literally hundreds of times. They synergize incredibly well in my experience
I can't reiterate enough how underrated melatonin is...
It seems like its hit or miss though when it comes to helping insomnia
Anyways, I've mixed them literally hundreds of times. They synergize incredibly well in my experience
I can't reiterate enough how underrated melatonin is...
It seems like its hit or miss though when it comes to helping insomnia
Melatonin never works on its own for me, last night I even mixed a nasty horrible tasting tea of "C. Zacatechichi, Silene Capensis, Salvia plain leaf, 3 MG melatonin, 1 Datura Inoxia seed. It tasted terrible and made me not sleep lol but Im trying to give melatonin a second chance, but tripping with syrian rue and melatonin lol that sounds interesting and I avoided the rue last night in that particular tea since I didn't know how it would effect. But thanks for all the awesome answers everyone..
- Merits
- 42
I have tripped with DMT/psilo like visions from just 1.5mg melatonin alone taken right before bed..not sure why melatonin does this to me..I take only like 200 mics for sleep..if I go over a mg I get hypnogogic visions and then a bit more and I get other metal effects too..adding harmalas to that just increases everything and adds that sedated stimulation of harmalas that makes it harder to really sleep deep.
I really dont get how people can take 3mg, 5mg or more etc of melatonin and simply pass out without experiencing the other side of melatonin. For me it def has some effects that it shares with other tryptamines like psilocybin and DMT..the tryptamine body feeling..the yawning..and the nature of the closed eye visuals I get from it..
It is like a hybrid for me between a beta carboline and a tryptamine.
..and I really do mean melatonin alone..no microdosing of other substances etc was taking place durring these experiences.
I know universecannon takes like 75mg of melatonin, with harmalas I think. I want to try this kind of thing but I am really just too freaked out about what could happen concidering what less than 3mg already does to me..maybe soon I will try 5mg and then 7 and then 10..
The thing about melatonin I dislike is the super groggy feeling the next day if I overdo it..I need to sleep like 10 hours the nights I take melatonin in any kind of hynogogic dose otherwise I feel so strung out and tired the next day..
..also I tend to wake up in the middle of the night when I do that, with effects that are so similar to the effects I wake up to when I dose harmalas at night..
I really dont get how people can take 3mg, 5mg or more etc of melatonin and simply pass out without experiencing the other side of melatonin. For me it def has some effects that it shares with other tryptamines like psilocybin and DMT..the tryptamine body feeling..the yawning..and the nature of the closed eye visuals I get from it..
It is like a hybrid for me between a beta carboline and a tryptamine.
..and I really do mean melatonin alone..no microdosing of other substances etc was taking place durring these experiences.
I know universecannon takes like 75mg of melatonin, with harmalas I think. I want to try this kind of thing but I am really just too freaked out about what could happen concidering what less than 3mg already does to me..maybe soon I will try 5mg and then 7 and then 10..
The thing about melatonin I dislike is the super groggy feeling the next day if I overdo it..I need to sleep like 10 hours the nights I take melatonin in any kind of hynogogic dose otherwise I feel so strung out and tired the next day..
..also I tend to wake up in the middle of the night when I do that, with effects that are so similar to the effects I wake up to when I dose harmalas at night..
- Merits
- 137
joedirt said:
For me its something like a more subtle and controllable harmala/tryptamine combination. Like a very deep mind lubricant i suppose, and mood lifter. If i take some when going about my business its usually subtle, but if i sit down and meditate i'll often go into very dreamy ayahuasca-esque trances. It can get pretty deep sometimes; like consciousness becoming a living 3d pablo amaringo painting. With harmalas added into the mix the affects of each just seem boosted. If the dose of harmalas is very high its sometimes basically as if i'm seeing and becoming anything the hyper-fueled imagination chooses. But even without harmalas, after a high dose of melatonin the next morning i'll have that harmala shutter-vision affect when i move my eyes. Its not accompanied by nausea though and fades shortly after waking up. But it can happen if i take it during the day as well. It does partly metabolize into pinoline.. so this isn't really surprising at all. Benz thinks its possible some might metabolize into 5meo as well, but who knows. Theres definitely an interesting 'being-ness' feeling involved. Hard to explain
It also works differently in high doses than it does in low doses. High doses, for some reason, don't make you as sleepy once you get used to it. Although its still easy for me to sleep on them if i want to. The grogginess people get in the morning is just from not taking the time to adjust. I've taken high doses and woken up 3 hours later feeling great many times. There seems to be a lot of variation in its affects on different people though, so thats good to keep in mind
I regularly take high doses (20-80mg or so) because there is enough evidence to my mind that points to us being chronically deficient in it... and enough research on its safety along with various benefits. They've given people 80mg+ a day for years with nothing but positive results, and even doses as high as 6-12 grams in a single day with no negatives or signs of toxicity.
Contrary to what people assume, daily supplementation of melatonin does not result in a decrease in endogenous melatonin production after you stop the supplementing. It actually increases your own endogenous production, even after you stop supplementing. So with the detrimental affects that artificial lighting/diet/etc has on our own production of melatonin, it only makes sense to supplement it. Along with that, I've read that meditation was shown to increase its production very rapidly as well, which definitely aligns with my experiences.
Theres an interesting book on this molecule called the melatonin miracle. I've read bits of it but haven't gotten my hands on a copy yet
if anyones interested in getting some melatonin, forget the stuff at the grocery store. just look for the pure bulk powder on the internet :thumb_up:
Interesting. I'll have to look into the book you mention.
I've taken 12mgs once and 3mgs sporadically for sleep. Sometimes it helps, sometimes id doesn't.
All this take of psychedelic melatonin gets me excited!
Harmals and melatonin are both really cheap! lol
I've taken 12mgs once and 3mgs sporadically for sleep. Sometimes it helps, sometimes id doesn't.
All this take of psychedelic melatonin gets me excited!
Harmals and melatonin are both really cheap! lol
Infectedstyle
I compulsively post from time to time
- Merits
- 42
I took a little melatonin pill 3 hours ago in order to maybe get a good night sleep. Closed the curtains and cut off any light. I experienced mild increase of visualization but nothing interesting happened. The first time i took two pills and drifted off into dreamlike hallucinations. I knew i was prone to them at the time because i was not at my own home. Just.. feels different when i'm out and about. I think i should really travel more to arouse my imagination a little bit.
Needless to say, i'm still awake. And melatonin never helped me fall asleep except for that first time. Aside from the yawning i guess it feels more like a stimulant than a sleeping aid at this point. Atleast that's what i thought one hour ago when i was lying in bed unable to sleep.
Btw, you guys are funny. Immediatly getting excited about tripping off of melatonin.. Hah! Isn't DMT enough for you?
But, in all fairness. Melatonin sure is an interesting compound to explore. Who knows, maybe we can start explaining dreams soon.
Needless to say, i'm still awake. And melatonin never helped me fall asleep except for that first time. Aside from the yawning i guess it feels more like a stimulant than a sleeping aid at this point. Atleast that's what i thought one hour ago when i was lying in bed unable to sleep.
Btw, you guys are funny. Immediatly getting excited about tripping off of melatonin.. Hah! Isn't DMT enough for you?
But, in all fairness. Melatonin sure is an interesting compound to explore. Who knows, maybe we can start explaining dreams soon.
Similar threads
