Sicho Naut
Established member
I did mix the tincture with a bit of coca cola (acidic), approx. 40ml. But maybe that is too little?
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Instant ayahuasca little lightening bolt TEK
- Thread starter Dorge
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I'm not sure. Definitive pH adjustment with a colourless substance seems preferable!
Do you usually use a cola drink for this purpose, or generally with your brews?
Sicho Naut
Established member
This is the third time I've tried it, with the purpose of turning the DMT into a salt form. I feel ambiguous about it, but after 1+ year of drinking horrid vinegar brews I refuse to continue using vinegar. I've heard citric acid is more neutral-tasting acid, but have yet to try it.
There are several other food acids which taste far better than vinegar! Besides citric and ascorbic acid, malic, succinic and tartaric acid all have a reasonable flavour profile. I go for ascorbic both because of its easy availability here and also because of it being a vitamin. It also pairs well with a bit of honey and a drop of lemon essential oil for masking harmala brews
Sicho Naut
Established member
Would the product of the alcohol extraction after the lime treatment be pure enough for enhanced leaf/changa?
Also, would trace amounts of lime be (completely?) removed by running the tincture through a cotton ball filter? If it were only to remove trace amounts trapped in the upper layer, the process would simply be letting it run through the filter, yes?
Also, would trace amounts of lime be (completely?) removed by running the tincture through a cotton ball filter? If it were only to remove trace amounts trapped in the upper layer, the process would simply be letting it run through the filter, yes?
A cotton filter cleans it up nicely from lime. The thing to watch out for is mould if evaporating at room temperature, because of the water content. I'd advise use of a bain marie for evaporating the vodka-strength tincture. Redissolve in acetone or pure alcohol for mixing the changa.
Sicho Naut
Established member
Removing excess plant matter from the untreated vodka tincture was a more involved process than I had hoped for. The long and short of it is that you need to dilute the tincture with water because the vodka redissolves most of the precipitated plant matter once it thaws (unlike with water brews, where the plant matter conveniently sticks to the bottom).
The question now is whether there is still enough alcohol in there to prevent the lime to drag down the DMT along with tannins etc. So, it would be very useful to find out this:
Ideally, diluting with water would not cause an issue here. If really necessary some more ethanol could of course be added after the freeze/thaw cycles and before the lime step. (Evap of the alcohol before consumption seems preferable anyway, IMO).
But it is unclear to me whether 'dilutedness'/concentration of the alcohol matters for the lime step or if the issue is simply that there be enough ml of alcohol to hold the DMT, even if it is in a larger amount of water than initially.
That being said, I am probably done with this lime tek. I think it's a promising tek for convenient pharmahuasca but now that I have experienced first-hand (by way of contrast) the important role that the plants play in the experience, I will probably just continue working with alcohol brews for oral DMT adventures.
But for those who want to experiment further: it seems reasonable to assume that a freeze/thaw step would result in much less need for lime and hence a significantly bigger yield. (IMO it is unlikely that all the DMT is pushed up into the alcohol layer after the lime step, as Denverrevolution suggests. After pipetting off the alcohol of my first experiment, I diluted the remaining lime layer with water and it turned DMT-yellow, just slightly darker than the pipetted off alcohol layer. Though perhaps even negligible amounts of DMT could colorize water, I don't know.)
Will report back in the future if I have anything significant to share. Otherwise I probably won't be spending much time here anymore as I find that even small amounts of social media/internetting/etc. are disruptive to my peace of mind. Thanks for the help @Transform, I hope others will develop this tek further!
The question now is whether there is still enough alcohol in there to prevent the lime to drag down the DMT along with tannins etc. So, it would be very useful to find out this:
Ideally, diluting with water would not cause an issue here. If really necessary some more ethanol could of course be added after the freeze/thaw cycles and before the lime step. (Evap of the alcohol before consumption seems preferable anyway, IMO).
But it is unclear to me whether 'dilutedness'/concentration of the alcohol matters for the lime step or if the issue is simply that there be enough ml of alcohol to hold the DMT, even if it is in a larger amount of water than initially.
That being said, I am probably done with this lime tek. I think it's a promising tek for convenient pharmahuasca but now that I have experienced first-hand (by way of contrast) the important role that the plants play in the experience, I will probably just continue working with alcohol brews for oral DMT adventures.
But for those who want to experiment further: it seems reasonable to assume that a freeze/thaw step would result in much less need for lime and hence a significantly bigger yield. (IMO it is unlikely that all the DMT is pushed up into the alcohol layer after the lime step, as Denverrevolution suggests. After pipetting off the alcohol of my first experiment, I diluted the remaining lime layer with water and it turned DMT-yellow, just slightly darker than the pipetted off alcohol layer. Though perhaps even negligible amounts of DMT could colorize water, I don't know.)
Will report back in the future if I have anything significant to share. Otherwise I probably won't be spending much time here anymore as I find that even small amounts of social media/internetting/etc. are disruptive to my peace of mind. Thanks for the help @Transform, I hope others will develop this tek further!
Thank you for trying this out, I hope to be able to add to the technical notes over the coming months.
Sicho Naut
Established member
1)
I am trying out the lime tek with 100g of MHRB & 900ml ethanol. Will post an update with pics on the process once completed.
However, one 'weakness' of this tek is that ethanol is rather expensive [and preferable over vodka for easier evaporation and over IPA as well because a significantly more effective solvent in terms of getting DMT out of the bark, IME], so a way to recover the solvent would be good. If most of the solvent could be recovered, this would also make dilution to compensate for the large lime layer very feasible [will give more on a dilution step in a future post].
I've gathered that freeze precipitating DMT out of alcohol wouldn't work well. So that leaves the option of distilling the alcohol (except a small layer holding the DMT to then be evaporated, so that no DMT gets burned during the distillation process).
Anyway, since the goal is saving money I don't want to buy expensive distillation equipment. I'm thinking of attaching a tube like this to my Erlenmeyer flask, running it through an inverted plastic bottle filled with ice cold water and letting the hose drop in a jar to collect the distilled alcohol. Then heating the erlenmeyer in a hot water bath on the stove [with the bottle standing on a metal grid in a pot filled with water for continued heating]. More or less like what is done in this video.
Any educated guesses if that would work well enough? My main concern is the safety of the hose. The silicone hose I linked is supposed to be heat resistant and food grade. Does anyone know if I can trust that?
2)
I assume this tek would work with ACRB. If so, would the NMT in acacia also end up in the alcohol layer along with DMT freebase?
Thanks ahead.
I am trying out the lime tek with 100g of MHRB & 900ml ethanol. Will post an update with pics on the process once completed.
However, one 'weakness' of this tek is that ethanol is rather expensive [and preferable over vodka for easier evaporation and over IPA as well because a significantly more effective solvent in terms of getting DMT out of the bark, IME], so a way to recover the solvent would be good. If most of the solvent could be recovered, this would also make dilution to compensate for the large lime layer very feasible [will give more on a dilution step in a future post].
I've gathered that freeze precipitating DMT out of alcohol wouldn't work well. So that leaves the option of distilling the alcohol (except a small layer holding the DMT to then be evaporated, so that no DMT gets burned during the distillation process).
Anyway, since the goal is saving money I don't want to buy expensive distillation equipment. I'm thinking of attaching a tube like this to my Erlenmeyer flask, running it through an inverted plastic bottle filled with ice cold water and letting the hose drop in a jar to collect the distilled alcohol. Then heating the erlenmeyer in a hot water bath on the stove [with the bottle standing on a metal grid in a pot filled with water for continued heating]. More or less like what is done in this video.
Any educated guesses if that would work well enough? My main concern is the safety of the hose. The silicone hose I linked is supposed to be heat resistant and food grade. Does anyone know if I can trust that?
2)
I assume this tek would work with ACRB. If so, would the NMT in acacia also end up in the alcohol layer along with DMT freebase?
Thanks ahead.
Great to hear from you, literally only yesterday was I wondering how you were doing!
As far as home distillation goes, there's also the option of building (much of) the apparatus out of copper pipe, joints and fittings. I've done so myself and it wasn't so difficult. I may have a few practical skills but I'm far from being an expert. Building a Liebig condenser this way is barely intermediate level, the main trick being that you should be able to reliably make watertight solder joints.
If you can't be bothered with this, the silicone tubing will make a functional alternative, but again, you have to be sure that the seal around the exit pipe is firm, otherwise you'll get coolant in your distillate.
NMT freebase will certainly dissolve in ethanol. I'm guessing you're going for a dried lime paste before making the alcohol pulls, after the disappointment and frustration of the vodka/lime precipitation experiment - something which, incidentally, I'm still rather sorry you had to go through.
As far as home distillation goes, there's also the option of building (much of) the apparatus out of copper pipe, joints and fittings. I've done so myself and it wasn't so difficult. I may have a few practical skills but I'm far from being an expert. Building a Liebig condenser this way is barely intermediate level, the main trick being that you should be able to reliably make watertight solder joints.
If you can't be bothered with this, the silicone tubing will make a functional alternative, but again, you have to be sure that the seal around the exit pipe is firm, otherwise you'll get coolant in your distillate.
NMT freebase will certainly dissolve in ethanol. I'm guessing you're going for a dried lime paste before making the alcohol pulls, after the disappointment and frustration of the vodka/lime precipitation experiment - something which, incidentally, I'm still rather sorry you had to go through.
Sicho Naut
Established member
Thanks! Will be back in a few weeks with an update.
Sicho Naut
Established member
Back sooner than expected with a question. I am gradually adding lime to see the effect on the solution. This is with a 100g MHRB ethanol soak.
Pic 1 = the solution without lime after filtering the MHRB.
Pic 2 = approx. 24h after adding 33g lime.
Pic 3 = approx. 24h after adding 7g extra lime (40g lime total).
[With 20g lime, the top layer remained near-black in color; I forgot to take a picture.]
My question: When should I stop adding lime? @Denverevolution's pics show an extremely pale lime layer, but previous posts by @Transform suggest that this may be excessive.
I intend to use to final product for pharmahuasca, so I suppose it does not matter too much, but I'd like to know how pure the extracted DMT should be if one were to make enhanced leaf / changa with this method. [Though I still wonder about the safety of potentially smoking invisible lime particles?].
Pic 1 = the solution without lime after filtering the MHRB.
Pic 2 = approx. 24h after adding 33g lime.
Pic 3 = approx. 24h after adding 7g extra lime (40g lime total).
[With 20g lime, the top layer remained near-black in color; I forgot to take a picture.]
My question: When should I stop adding lime? @Denverevolution's pics show an extremely pale lime layer, but previous posts by @Transform suggest that this may be excessive.
I intend to use to final product for pharmahuasca, so I suppose it does not matter too much, but I'd like to know how pure the extracted DMT should be if one were to make enhanced leaf / changa with this method. [Though I still wonder about the safety of potentially smoking invisible lime particles?].
Thanks for this tidbit - it roughly aligns with the ABV for acorn tannin precipitation as suggested by the Chinese team. Perhaps this will help inspire some further experimentation during the (boreal) winter.
Thanks for the update. I'd say that's looking pretty good. Filtering through a cotton plug should clear up much of that cloudy lime residue - but see also below.
Your concerns about lime carry-over making its way into smoking mixtures can be allayed somewhat in knowing those particles will most probably be calcium carbonate already, or will otherwise get converted fairly rapidly on storage. A deliberate treatment with carbon dioxide may be worth considering, if there seemed to be excessive lime residue.
Purist
Rising Star
@Denverevolution thank you for taking the time to do this!At worst, my take is that Transform was being a bit lazy in saying "I think this could work, and I really hope someone tries it out, but I don't have the time/energy myself to do it." But from my perspective, he was being open about his preference to have someone else test his idea, and I was all-too-happy to try it.
For me, the lime step was welcome. I've personally gotten sick every time I've drank enough Aya to have a strong experience, and I didn't get sick either of the times I drank the final product from this process (after using lime), so that's one data point.
I never tried it without the lime, so I think you would be in a better spot to compare the experience with and without the lime step. We still don't know how much DMT potency we're losing with the lime step, nor how much vomit-inducing tannins and other crap.
I have a batch going now that I'll finish and take to the lab, and I'll continue to revise this into simple text for a written tek. For now, its in a Google Doc here, and I'd really appreciate any edits/contributions from either of you:
Alcohol Tek
Alcohol Tek This extraction technique is designed to be as simple as possible. The DMT yielded is much more pure than ayahuasca (Not likely to make you sick) but its debatable whether its clean enough to vape/smoke, so for now, we’re suggesting consuming it orally. As with all oral routes of ad...docs.google.com
I found this crazy useful. Do you have any updates? Especially the bulk instructions? Or additions for the other brew ingredients. This will be my first run at extracting this way, rather than the traditional water methods. This whole thread was/is an education.
Thank you all!
Just checking in here to clarify, you'll be trying the vodka pulls followed by tannin removal using lime? If this is the case I shall be awaiting reports with eager anticipation!
If we have a few more people trying the TnT* vodka+lime tek, it's high time we peel it off into its own thread.
[*TnT= "Thinking 'n' Tinkering" - thanks, RMS!]