Introduction, report and questions...

[Traged]

Hello everyone,

first I want to thank you nexians, for helping me find information, sources, and many things I am interested in. To find place where perspectives arent skewed by society is refreshing for me. Place where people went on unusual paths and reported back, helps me on my journey.

Something about me. I was struggling with depression for years, even if I got better and was functional I was not ok. In comparison to normal people it was terrible. I could barely function in real world, if you can call it that. I am listening to JRE often, and I started to think about mushrooms and other psychedelics. Psilocybin cured my depression, helped me with perspective. It just took some time to learn how to grow them. (that was about two years ago)

I was already interested in DMT, but my first extraction is awaiting me still. Same with ayahuasca - but that is planned to happen in two weeks. I am looking forward to that experience.

I usually do mushrooms with friend of mine. I had to learn not to micro dose - to not build up tolerance. We usually did 5g of shrooms (each) - put in a mixer, add lemon juice and blend.

After some time I started adding Syrian rue.

3g Syrian rue seeds
5g mushrooms
lemon juice (fresh)
blend it

This we take on empty stomach.

I had some shit happen on Christmas, someone returned me a gift I have spend most money, thoughts and time in my life to give them. I was not depressed but I was fucked up, I knew I either can spend months working thru that, or I can do one trip which might be hard experience but I should be able to work it in a day.

My idea was, I will take shrooms with Syrian rue, right after midnight between 31.12. and 1.1. - I will come down in the morning, when sun will be rising and I will be basically clean, new, reborn... Added symbolism for better results.

I blended 7g of shrooms, 5g of Syrian rue with orange juice from a box (at the moment I was lazy to squeeze lemons) .

First two hour or two was beautiful experience, I have cried from happiness and beauty of things I worked thru. Came to realization, to love someone so that you can give them present in such a way. Is one of the most beautiful things on earth regardless of how it is received. I was grateful for people in my life (next day I messaged them all).

After some time my stomach started hurting. I went to throw up. I couldn't imagine what came. I was drenched in sweat, coulnt stop gagging for hours, thinking I have fucked up with the orange juice and tyramine. Thought I am gonna die, that I lost my mind and people I know and love dont exist. After like 4 hours of this, I basically layed on my side next to the toilet, when I was okay enough to move and go to bed.

My first question would be, is freshly squeezed lemon juice ok with rue? there was no issue before. Is store bought orange juice unsafe in this manner? Was this just too much rue(and I was purging)?

Looking back on this experience I am grateful for it anyway. It was unpleasant but I have confronted stuff most people dont.

After that, we continued with 5g shrooms and 3g rue with lemon juice with no issue. I was bit afraid, that this might happen again. Everything was dandy.

Last Friday I decided to change recipe, I put 4grams of rue in instead of 3. One and half hour into experience I told my friend I am going to throw up. This time I have read up on nexus on purging, and I knew what is happening. I spend hour gagging, my friend scared shitless with me between gagging telling him that I know what is happening, I will explain everything when I will be feeling better. Meanwhile I went at very interesting places in my mind during this. I basically tried to to take control of my body. And was bit scared of power of my mind.

My other questions would be: Is there a way to make this purging bit easier? (I have read on lemon balm and ginger juice - I was drinking ginger tea before this, but I know it should have been juice) Is there potential for ginger juice and lemon balm to prevent this?

What about banisteropsis caapi in ayahuasca? Will same thing happen? What would be comparison with rue in your opinion? I have read up on recipies, and it was recomended to cook 50 grams of caapi for weak stuff and 100g for strong stuff (1:1 with Psychotria viridis) - how does it compare to 3grams of rue?

Basically I either want to prevent stomach pains and puking or at least make puking easier. I understand that purging is part of this, I am okay with that it might happen, even if I could go back I would still want to keep experiences I described.

With regards,

me.

 

[Transform]

Hello and welcome to the Nexus!

You are far from alone in your experiences of depression and being a misfit, so it's a pleasure to be able to welcome you here at this point on your journey.

Cutting to the chase, it may be better to avoid orange juice - this was something that came up (no pun intended!) during preparations for an ayahuasca ceremony I once attended. Lemon juice should be OK, and I tend to use fresh lemons since the store-bought stuff generally contains sulfites. However, nowadays I tend to use pure ascorbic acid for more precise control of acidity, and to avoid the random factor of citrus flavonoids and other secondary metabolites.

I do love lemon juice though, it's very healthy stuff - saved my life, in fact.

Of course, if those were 7 dry grams of mushrooms that you took it would have been likely to have been a white knuckle ride even without the syrian rue - although your 5/3 experiences suggest they are perhaps fairly weak (or you have a massive tolerance!). In the context of your situation I can only exhort you to embrace the purge - but specific solutions do exist…

My other questions would be: Is there a way to make this purging bit easier? (I have read on lemon balm and ginger juice - I was drinking ginger tea before this, but I know it should have been juice) Is there potential for ginger juice and lemon balm to prevent this?

Here ya go: The Secret-Alchemist Club Anti-Nausea Shot

Several other questions arise, which I dump in bulk here as much for you to contemplate as for me to even need an answer, so feel free to take your time
How often do you trip? Do you complement this with other practices such as meditation, yoga, regular exercise and excursions into nature? What is your home tripping environment like? What other preparations do you make for tripping? How is your diet? Does your psychedelic/entheogenic use tie in with any specific life goals you may have? And, quite importantly, do you take any other medications at present?

One thing you may want to try is using rue by itself for a while. [I use low doses of whole seeds (~1g or less) sublingually/quidded practically every day.] Harmalas by themselves have a lot to offer, we have substantial resources here to that end:

Harmalas

We have drunk haoma and become immortal

forum.dmt-nexus.me

and of course

Ayahuasca

La Medicina

forum.dmt-nexus.me

Pharmahuasca

Extracted DMT taken orally with an MAOI

forum.dmt-nexus.me

 

[Traged]

although your 5/3 experiences suggest they are perhaps fairly weak (or you have a massive tolerance!

I am not sure about that. I am doing psilocybe cubensis, trips are spaced to reset tolerance. But guess we can take it.

How often do you trip?

Lately closest trips are spaced two weeks apart. Sometimes its longer. Last trip was after two months.

Do you complement this with other practices such as meditation, yoga, regular exercise and excursions into nature?

I was doing yoga for two weeks every day - will get back to it but I don't have time right now. I need to find time to go mushroom hunting - which I don't do but want to pick up. I don't go to the forest at the moment but you could say I live in area most of you could consider rural. I am growing tomatoes for a second year. Managed to get some new plants recently (banisteriopsis caapi, psychotria viridis, salvia divinorum, desmanthus illinoensis, growing acacia accuminata from seed... some citruses and figs). I play dota2 for years, which I consider mental training at this point (went from fun when I was young to some totaly different animal). I listen to Joe Rogan Experience (I skip some hosts like comedians but enjoy host like Amanda Fielding and Paul Stamets) and Lex Fridman Podcast. I am interested in programming - done some, but will need to return to it as career path. Want to pick up painting(need to learn drawing first) and improve my writing(its above average but if I am ever to write something publishable...)

What is your home tripping environment like?

If I am working thru stuff (tripping alone) then I trip at home - 2room apartment. When do we trip with friend of mine we do so at his 2 story house which is basically safe place with big yard, and you could say okay privacy (there was never unexpected visitors or anything). There is always music, and most of the time we watch carefully chosen movie.

What other preparations do you make for tripping?

I/we don't eat at least six hours before. I am draconian about taking anything on empty stomach. Most of the time I bring incense sticks, and burn them in the beginning of the trip.

How is your diet?

That's something I am not satisfied with. Right now I don't have time to cook to my liking. So mostly I eat convenience store carbohydrates. After tomatoes will be planted and some stuff sorted I will go back to eating better, more fruit and better meals. This is place I could go on for a long time. Lets just say, I think eating meat is right, but shouldn't be combined with carbohydrates so much. I would say Paul Saladino diet is great - but I don't eat like that at the moment.

Does your psychedelic/entheogenic use tie in with any specific life goals you may have?

With limited time on this earth, I would like to spend it in the best way possible. This helps me to think about those things. To find what to do with my life. To improve myself and sort thru stuff other people need years or generations to get rid of. Their traumas, generational traumas... I think this will help me find most optimal way to create life for myself which will be great one, and at least my future kids, or maybe other humans will look up to me because I have done it right. Idea is to be an example for others, who cannot manage better by themselves. Lessen the suffering of others when possible. And make decisions to be able to do things I want to do, or sometimes I dont want to do, but they should be created, made into this world because world with them will be much better than without them... (guess I am supposed to write a book in this lifetime)

nd, quite importantly, do you take any other medications at present?

I occasionally, take some analgetic - sometimes few times a month sometimes I will go few months without. I sometimes (rarely) take antihistaminic for allergies. (which I hope I will solve with Aya). Other than that, I take eye drops in the morning and evening, they should contain antihistaminic as well. I have keratoconus, which will be operated on soon. But one thing I would also think my by solved by a good trip is dry eyes (in the morning or after I close my eyes for a longer time, its insane).

I use low doses of whole seeds (~1g or less)

Yeah, even before your answer I was starting to think about taking some daily for some time.

Here ya go: The Secret-Alchemist Club Anti-Nausea Shot

I was reading up on this, but thank you

question would be do I take it right after I take Ayahuasca? Right after mushrooms with rue?

should I add lemon balm into pot when I will cook ayahuasca?

and how much citric acid would you use, for lemon tek with mushrooms?

its better to use vinegar or citric acid when cooking ayahuasca?

 

[Transform]

Thanks for your carefully thought-out reply. Sounds like you're doing really well, so give yourself a pat on the back for the good stuff you do!

Very nice to hear that you've a bit of an entheogenic garden going, just growing the plants and learning what makes them happy is great soul medicine. Just imagine how great it will be doing your yoga with a nice roomful of plants

My rue use has tied in closely with dealing with autoimmune issues, so again there's a common thread of soul medicine behind this. It's easy to see how you might want to treattallergies in a similar manner. For me it's like the underlying irritability is rooted directly in troubled relationship with one's world. Harmala plants can be a useful ally in healing this.

On a related note - yes, those generational traumas are an ongoing theme for us, eh? Again, prolonged and dedicated harmala use has proved to be of immense value on this front. Maybe Terence Mckenna was onto something after all, when he talked about "intercalation with the DNA matrix". Even though this is still pure speculation, anecdotal experience suggests there could be something to it, especially in light of more recent research findings regarding heritable epigenetic changes in response to environmental and social stresses. These can pass down through at least three generations. I'm not saying McKenna got the harmala-DNA interaction mechanism exactly right, but it's certainly food for thought.

Now, I'm reluctant to comment on the possible efficacy of pure citric acid with shrooms since we're not actually sure of the exact way lemon tek boosts mushroom potency. It seems to be a matter of hydrolysis of psilocybin to psilocin, maybe coupled with enhanced absorption due to mannitol and/or flavonoids, along with antioxidant effects on the resulting psilocin from flavonoids and ascorbic acid plus - possibly - inactivation of degradatory enzymes through low pH. Maybe some more detailed tests have been carried out elsewhere (shr*****y?) but I haven't looked. Perhaps some other members will be able to chime in on this.

It would be fairly straightforward to do a series of experiments to compare lemon juice, citric acid and ascorbic acid if this hasn't already been tested somewhere.

Vinegar has the advantage of evaporating during cooking but this volatility can add an aroma to the brew which might make drinking an often already quite unpleasant beverage even less palatable. I guess whatever acid you decide to use, you add just enough to make the water weakly acidic since it's a drink and not an A/B extraction (and even then, too much acid makes for a waste of both acid and base). My personal preference for ascorbic acid (vitamin C) is based on several things - I actually prefer the flavour it brings, it's a vitamin, and it may help reduce (hydrogenate) some harmaline into THH. Being able to buy tubs of pure vitC powder off the shelf on the high street here really helps.

I think it says in the anti-nausea shot thread to take it just before the brew? Often it's the DMT that really hits the 5ht3 nausea receptors so if you're doing split dosing it should be fine to drink the shot after the harmalas but before the 'light' component. I've also had good results from adding half a drop of lemon EO to some honey and stirring that into my rue tea.

You can try adding your lemon balm leaves to the ayahuasca brew for sure, the GABA-ergic flavonoids will work just as well that way but if you want the full flavour it's best to add them after removing from the heat otherwise to much of the aroma may get lost. That said, I've added it to cactus brews earlier on in the process and the result was very good so, again, there's room for experimentation to optimise what works best for you.

 

[Traged]

My rue use has tied in closely with dealing with autoimmune issues, so again there's a common thread of soul medicine behind this.

Could yo please elaborate on this? I myself don't have autoimmune issues but I know some people. Are there any studies on the topic?

On a related note - yes, those generational traumas are an ongoing theme for us, eh? Again, prolonged and dedicated harmala use has proved to be of immense value on this front. Maybe Terence Mckenna was onto something after all, when he talked about "intercalation with the DNA matrix". Even though this is still pure speculation, anecdotal experience suggests there could be something to it, especially in light of more recent research findings regarding heritable epigenetic changes in response to environmental and social stresses. These can pass down through at least three generations. I'm not saying McKenna got the harmala-DNA interaction mechanism exactly right, but it's certainly food for thought.

This is complicated stuff. Even if McKenna would be wrong, we are still talking psychological and learning patterns we get from our parents which they gotten from their parents... What would be the prove for Terence's theory? DNA sequencing before and after ayahuasca?

Now, I'm reluctant to comment on the possible efficacy of pure citric acid with shrooms since we're not actually sure of the exact way lemon tek boosts mushroom potency. It seems to be a matter of hydrolysis of psilocybin to psilocin, maybe coupled with enhanced absorption due to mannitol and/or flavonoids, along with antioxidant effects on the resulting psilocin from flavonoids and ascorbic acid plus - possibly - inactivation of degradatory enzymes through low pH. Maybe some more detailed tests have been carried out elsewhere (shr*****y?) but I haven't looked. Perhaps some other members will be able to chime in on this.

I will look into this before dialing things. Meanwhile I think its only about dissolving psilocybin into psilocin. And helping with chitin. But I could be wrong, it happened before I have to grow some shrooms before though...

My personal preference for ascorbic acid (vitamin C)

So you acidify water for ayahuasca with vitamin C? Did I get correctly? How many grams per liter of water? Isn't C vitamin destroyed by simmering?

Thank you for your time, and responses. This actually feels like I am some kind of apprentice to you, or nexus as a whole... is it weird?

I have read somewhere that to become shaman you just need to do some deeds, then you are technically one. Looks like many people here done it already. Feels like I am about to... Not that I was ever interested in shamanism and that's also weird

 

[Transform]

Could yo please elaborate on this? I myself don't have autoimmune issues but I know some people. Are there any studies on the topic?

In my case it comes from reading about the immunomodulatory and anti-inflammatory effects of rue. Most of them I found posted on the old Nexus forum and I don't know how much of that particular section has been migrated here. The thing is, however, I knew about rue and ayahuasca (superficially) long before my health issues appeared, and it was only some while after developing a long-term skin condition that I was able to obtain rue and similar ingredients. Prior to that I had used mushrooms (liberty caps) quite extensively but looking back on that now, today, it seems almost like a different person. In a sense I was, since I didn't comprehend my own or my familial trauma at all. This led inexorably to what the late, great Robert Anton Wilson referred to as "Chapel Perilous", and thus my maladies were only my own doing through my own self-unknowing.

This is complicated stuff. Even if McKenna would be wrong, we are still talking psychological and learning patterns we get from our parents which they gotten from their parents... What would be the prove for Terence's theory? DNA sequencing before and after ayahuasca?

I do think the intercalation idea is far-fetched and would be exceedingly challenging to prove, even without going into its possible biological consequences. As far as DNA sequencing goes, the thing about heritability of socio-environmental stress responses is that it relies on epigenetic changes, principally methylation of the genetic material, which acts as a kind of bookmarking function in the genome. It would make for some very interesting research if someone managed to investigate how ayahuasca - when used with therapeutic intent -might remedy these stress markers. It seems to me like an hypothesis worth testing. There's an underlying question of just how much of the function of the human genome we actually understand in this respect, and overall it's quite exciting to contemplate.

I will look into this before dialing things. Meanwhile I think its only about dissolving psilocybin into psilocin. And helping with chitin. But I could be wrong, it happened before I have to grow some shrooms before though...

Good call on the chitin - besides the cell wall integrity and how that affects mobility of the actives, what do we know about the interactions of charged groups on chitin with other ionic species? We do love a good grow log here as well

So you acidify water for ayahuasca with vitamin C? Did I get correctly? How many grams per liter of water? Isn't C vitamin destroyed by simmering?

Well, I acidify my rue brews with about 240mg ascorbic acid (2 scoops) but the sessions with addition of anything else to make it anahuasca/pharmahuasca have been few and far between since I noted there was some work I needed to do on myself before going deeper in that respect. Vitamin C doesn't just disappear on heating - first it decomposes into dehydroascorbic acid while giving up an equivalent of a hydrogen molecule to whichever available electron acceptor species is available - usually molecular oxygen, and some hypothesise that this could contribute to reduction (hydrogenation) of harmaline to THH in solutions of harmala alkaloids - another thing yet to be proven. Subsequently, dehydroascorbic acid can hydrolyse in a sequence that produces carbon dioxide and trihydroxybutanoic acid, so the acidification properties are not lost as a result of the decomposition.

Thank you for your time, and responses. This actually feels like I am some kind of apprentice to you, or nexus as a whole... is it weird?

Well, I'm just some deranged fool on the internet with a largely theoretical chemistry hobby so it's nice to be able to share some ideas in what we can only hope is a relevant and helpful fashion. I would pity anyone who had the misfortune to be my apprentice IRL so we can be thankful for the intercession of digital communication technology

I have read somewhere that to become shaman you just need to do some deeds, then you are technically one. Looks like many people here done it already. Feels like I am about to... Not that I was ever interested in shamanism and that's also weird

A lot of people have written a lot of stuff about shamanism and not all of them know what they are talking about. On the face of it, shamanism is indeed a collection of techniques - just like woodwork, and not everybody makes a good carpenter either. If you're not part of a culture which includes these techniques it will be hard to understand how they work, whether they hold any validity, or the philosophical can of worms that may undermine the foundations of your reality.