• Members of the previous forum can retrieve their temporary password here, (login and check your PM).

Is death even possible?

Migrated topic.
Achilles

Achilles

I is the obstacle.
So I’ve been thinking. Everything we see around us is existence and life. I was trying to fathom how death could be possible and really can’t say how it could be possible. If when you die it’s nothing but black space or nothingness then what exactly is the black space? Even nothingness is something in existence. So what is it if not just another state of existence. When I look around at the world viewing both material and mental existence it dawned on me that nothing can’t be the answer because if there was such thing as permanent nothing than how is there anything? What we know for sure is existence well... exist lol. And tbh nothingness is literally unfathomable and has never truly been experienced or it wouldn’t be nothingness, it would be the experience of black space. A lot of people since the beginning of time have portrayed physical death to be the end but I really can’t fathom it and would love for someone to try to explain nothingness to me if they can. As far as I’ve seen death or nothingness is pretty much impossible. If there is existence then nothingness is impossible. Am I losing my mind or does that kinda make sense?
 
Have you ever been put under with anesthesia for surgery? One moment you are counting out loud while being prepared for surgery. And the next momemt you are waking up in the recovery room. In between is a blank absence. I imagine that death is a similar blank absence that is permanent.
 
My father had near death experience and he told me that he experienced only nothingness. Maybe this experience is heavily influenced by our set of believes in this world so therefore he experienced nothing because he doesn't believe in something after death. But there are plenty of other NDE's where people had similar experiences, some of them say that after that nothingness they emerged into spiritual realm and that they needed to experience that nothingness to come to everything.
 
Black space isn’t nothingness. Idk what it is that’s the point. Existence is here all around us. If nothingness was possible then there wouldn’t be anything. Because there is something “existence is all around us” then the notion of nothingness is impossible. Nothingness is still something. Even if it’s black space then wtf is that black space. It can’t be nothing because it exists. .... I’m hurting my head lol. Btw I’m not debating this I’m really just letting my thoughts ramble on and try to make sense of things. It’s just so confusing when you try to fathom this kinda stuff
 
it seems to me the issue is that you expect to experience nothingness upon death where as its just your consciousness being turned off like unplugging a lamp from the mains it simply stops lighting it dosent go somewhere else just stops processing electrons

death of the physical body is unfortunately real,
but as physicists have proven energy is never destroyed just converted
so your corpse is buried or burned and hopefully the energy and mass that was your body is put to good use by another animal or plant, most likely bacteria , recycled into the circle of life!
however this does not mean that you will retain or become conscious again as that seems to be a very specific arrangement of atoms and experiences to you

death of the conscious could be interpreted as something else if you believe in a "soul" that is more than just the current physical arrangement of your mass and energy,
dmt seems to show us other reality's and entity's that could be interpreted as souls but again there is no proof that they exist outside of the dmt state

personally i find the "soul" hard to believe in as despite all the dissection and brain surgery science has yet to find any indication, yet they can remove physical parts keeping your body alive but unconscious or remove for example the hypo-campus and leave you unable to remember anything about yourself effectively rendering you conscious but not you

either way we wont have much say in it so its best not to worry about what happens next!
stay focused on whats happening now!
 
I realize that death of our bodies is real, and I realize the circle of life thing with physical matter is true but to say consciousness is a byproduct of the body doesn’t make sense to me either. Physical matter had to have come from something because well it couldn’t have come from nothing. There has to be something to perceive in order for there to be anything right. So really before there could be physical matter there had to be the thought of physical matter. But what is thought, info, and data? It exists, even when there is physically nothing there. I think ego death and regular death are probably the same. You lose your name, memories and beliefs but you still exist. Everything still exist. Space, time, information is always and has always been present. So back to the original question, wtf is nothing? Something can’t come from nothing and really something can’t come from something or it’s just more of the something that has always been. Seems to me like the chances are more in favor of when you die there’s just more something. Not nothing... lmao my head hurts so bad
 
We come from sperm...that sperm comes from us. So naturally that will be alive, because we are alive. But why cant you fathom non existence? If a light bulb breaks it cant produce light.

At this point I dont believe you just turn off like I used to. For one I believe some mechanisms in the brain will go off and cause concrete visions...it needs to wrap things up before signing out, and as the bible says "god will not leave you." These visions however will happen to no one, no self to experience this passing through; just the experience. The experiencer is the experiece.

Weither this goes beyond, weither there is life after life, after this theoretical wrapping up of spirit I have proposed, I dont know. But it seems to me that energy must be powered...of course as we have experienced it is possible to connect to an outer source of energy to stay running...the spirit may return to the large powerful cycles of the cosmos, or the electric wave vibrancy of the micro-cosmal. Maybe reencarnation?

Maybe...maybe...

But death is the death of the image, of what we think we are...so that leads one to conclude it is no death at all. Not a real ending.

Perhaps.
 
ok death aside
maybe look at "nothing" more as a linguistic term for something we cant yet explain
like thinking of infinity simply as a value we have no capacity to count too!
This is a trap i think human pride brings into play, we love to think we know everything and are the peak of our existence.. yet in 20 years there will be things you and i never dreamed! just ask anyone over 40 about life before mobile phones ;)

the current science suggests that everything in the universe should have an opposite,
matter has antimatter, positive ions have negative ions etc
so "something" a very general human term for physical items viewed as positive should potentially have a negative non physical in this case named by humans as "nothing"

we know things existed before you did, we know the earth existed for millions of years before humans even showed up and for hundreds of millions of years before any organic life existed just as any other barren planet, and that other places in the universe probably existed for far longer

as such if anything id say perception and consciousness is second to, maybe even a by-product of existence,
eg: single cell organisms exist with very little if any perception of their surroundings but their surroundings still exist and existed long before them they dont need to think about it or understand it for it or them to exist.
now through millions of years of reproduction and beneficial mutations surviving longer to have more offspring (evolution) we as humans have senses far superior to those single cell organism allowing for memory, language, history and an identity of self.. ego

I think there are an infinite (uncountable) amount of places we humans will never perceive and never record into history so did they never exist? are they lost to nothing simply because we didn't perceive them?

lol my heads not doing much better ;)
 
We must also acknowledge that there is a deep rooted human desire for consciousness or existence to continue on after death. We all want that for our loved ones and for ourselves. But desire does not make reality. And so any strong conviction that consciousness will continue after death, where does that come from? From evidence or from desire? Everyone wants to play in a field with grandma and mom and dad and your childhood puppy... But I see no evidence that it will be that way or anyway other than blankness.
 
Grey Fox said:
We must also acknowledge that there is a deep rooted human desire for consciousness or existence to continue on after death. We all want that for our loved ones and for ourselves. But desire does not make reality. And so any strong conviction that consciousness will continue after death, where does that come from? From evidence or from desire? Everyone wants to play in a field with grandma and mom and dad and your childhood puppy... But I see no evidence that it will be that way or anyway other than blankness.
Click to expand...

There is evidence! NDES, The psychedelic experience, not only every religion in the world but the root of them which originates in the sacred experience. But the evidence points at exactly the opposite; the attachment to mom and dad and the puppy is what dies, as the spirit becomes all things at once--hence why we want to stay in hyperspace consciousness even tho we love our moms. The self dies, everything that we are attached to; which is the known. Death is the unkown. You cant go into the unkown without letting go of the known.
 
I don’t abide to the mommy daddy puppy heaven. Your speaking in terms of preconceived belief on a very human(for lack of a better word) level. Like the clown said your ego will most likely die with your brain but that doesn’t explain what will happen to your ability to perceive. As I said before nothingness can’t even be defined so why does it seem like it’s just the right answer. I’m not saying I know for sure what happens when we die but blackness seems like a real simple cop out answer that people use who have no interest in thinking deeply about existence. I’ve never seen nothingness nor has anyone else who can attest to it but I have seen existence... I see it every day, we all do. So once again it seems much more likely there’s something not nothing.
 
Hyperspace does not prove that we somehow continue on after death. How could it? YOU ARE ALIVE WHILE EXPERIENCING THAT. Your brain is intact and functioning.

Just like with people who have near death experiences. Yes, perhaps the heart has stopped beating. But the brain cells are still alive. The brain cells did not die off. When they do die off, beyond the point of revival, that is true death. And that, in all likelihood, is blankness. Anything more comes from desire and not from evidence.
 
If someone were to suffer damage to the brain and lose the brain tissue responsible for vision, what would happen to their vision? Blankness. If someone were to suffer damage to the brain and lose the brain tissue responsible for hearing, what would happen to their hearing? Blankness. What about speech or smell or memory, etc? Blankness, blankness, and blankness.

So why is consciousness different? Is it not just another function of the brain?

The problem all starts when divisions of any kind are made between body and mind. Or divisions like body / mind / soul.

The body and mind are one. You are not your brain. You are your body, one singular organic being. Any division is false. Consciousness is just a functioning of your singular organic unit. When the organism dies consciousness dies as well. Let us embrace reality.
 
Grey Fox said:
If someone were to suffer damage to the brain and lose the brain tissue responsible for vision, what would happen to their vision? Blankness. If someone were to suffer damage to the brain and lose the brain tissue responsible for hearing, what would happen to their hearing? Blankness. What about speech or smell or memory, etc? Blankness, blankness, and blankness.

So why is consciousness different? Is it not just another function of the brain?

The problem all starts when divisions of any kind are made between body and mind. Or divisions like body / mind / soul.

The body and mind are one. You are not your brain. You are your body, one singular organic being. Any division is false. Consciousness is just a functioning of your singular organic unit. When the organism dies consciousness dies as well. Let us embrace reality.
Click to expand...

Existence was here before your body and brain. As I said before information was here before matter. Information makes up matter. Your idea of death(nothingness) is purely based on your brain telling you your the centerpiece of existence and without your five senses there’s nothing. Think beyond matter... there’s tons of invisible information floating around that can’t be PHYSICALLY perceived but it’s still there. It was there before our bodies. That information makes up our bodies. Why is it so hard to picture the idea that if information and thought were here before our brains that it will be here after our brains. Hell I think Robert Lanza pretty much proved this with biocentrism. Your brain isn’t the end all life force that fuels existence. It’s just an organic machine used to interpret it. Think beyond matter. I feel like if scientists weren’t so clung to physical proof they may actually begin to make great strides in science again instead of being stumped for years.
 
is death even possible?
Click to expand...

I think that it depends on how you translate the word "death" to be meaning. Similar to how different people perceive what the word "consciousness" means.
 
Grey Fox said:
Hyperspace does not prove that we somehow continue on after death. How could it? YOU ARE ALIVE WHILE EXPERIENCING THAT. Your brain is intact and functioning.

Just like with people who have near death experiences. Yes, perhaps the heart has stopped beating. But the brain cells are still alive. The brain cells did not die off. When they do die off, beyond the point of revival, that is true death. And that, in all likelihood, is blankness. Anything more comes from desire and not from evidence.
Click to expand...

You are right, the brain cells may cause NDES and DMT is a chemical, but thats not what I refer to when I point at evidence. Rather the visions are the evidence. I dont know if youve smoked it, but its impossible to explain that stuff. It shows you what it means that anything is possible. One shocking thing is that you are going somewhere man...you never get there generally or are able to stay.

But there is a definitive invite towards somewhere and a cosmic knowledge which you cant keep.

If the brain can create this, why would it?

The visions are not expressions of desires. They are the impossible.

As if meditation, love, and the observance of all things in nature, werent enough, the dmt visions are further evidence that the world is indeed made of magic...magic is complete order...the universe being in meditation, expanding...so once you see the fact of that, its hard to believe in the explanation of blankness, though its completley rational and I think its OK you think that.

As hug64 says the word death needs proper defining.

Can it be that death is the complete unknown and unknowable and so you cant bring or keep or know anything about it? This is where knowledge stops.

Anyway, I'm looking foward to seeing how this all turns out. I think the conclusion will not dissapoint.
 
If you're a strict materialist, you have to believe that matter can generate counsciousness.

But if that indeed, is what is happening in our brains, then why couldn't it happen in other places as well? Why couldn't a planet be counscious, or a forest, or a universe?

Why couldn't counsciousness be everywhere?
 
Back
Top Bottom