Is everything okay?

[hinien]

So i'm going to try my first extraction in few day on wild phalaris acquatica and arundinacea

Aquatica/Tuberosa



Arundinacea




After reading alot of teks here is what i came up with:

1. Powderize 150g phalaris
2. add white vinegar and slowly cook for 1 hour (ph must be between 2 and 5)
3. Discard the plant matter (can do other acid cooks)
4. add 150 ml naptha, mix, let layers create, discard naptha
6. add sod carbonate 'till ph is 10-11
7. let dry (oven maybe?)
8. add 75 ml acetone, mix, separate acetone
9. repeat step 8 2-3 times
10 let acetone dry up

but i'm still a little confused and i have a few questions:

1. Is this ok? XD

2. I can't understand why while using vinegar people add other water to it. from what i understood u just have to lower the ph.

3. In step 7 drying could take a lot of time if not "encouraged". But in that step dmt should be already freebased and i fear that by raising tmeperature too much spice can be damaged. Mix sould be dryied since acetone mix with water, and the water in step 7 contains sodium carbonate (wich is insoluble in acetone, and soluble in naphtha, that's why i can't use naphtha) so a drier mix will result in a more pure yeld. Is this ok? Can i heat up dmt to 50-60 degrees without damaging it?
thanks in advance

 

[endlessness]

2- Do more than one cook/boil, do 3x, then put together the liquids and discard solids.

6-10 - No. Add lye, pull with naphtha 3 or 4x, freeze precipitate and recrystallize or evap and recrystallize product with naphtha as FAQ says.

Also, maybe get some reagent like marquis/ehrlich to help identifying the yield, if there is anything, and be sure to bioassay starting with very low doses.

Also I recommend looking into growing cuttings from known strains, such as AQ1/Big medicine, because wild phalaris is a bit of a russian roulette.

 

[hinien]

Thanks for the advices, but i WANT to use wild phalaris.

AQ1 italian strains from Festi & Samonini were planted in a town VERY close from where i live and i want to know if i can get dmt from local everywhere-growing plants.
I want to believe that i won't have to order anything on the net as i want to be as discrete as possible.
And since i got all there information here, i don't mind doing a little report that maybe can help the phalaris community here.

It seems i have some problems getting pure lye, that's why i came up with this messy procedure.

I could use some advices on why this procedure is not ok, so maybe i can come up with something else...

 

[Electric Kool-Aid]

Cool beans man!
So hinien rewrite your tek here under the guidelines of what endlessness just gave. Remember, he is one of the gurus here and he has tested / analyzed Phalaris before. So listen closely to his wise words.
Jamie picked Phalaris and extracted spice, sent spice to endlessness for analysis and after results came back Jamie tried smoalking the spice. There is the results somewhere here. (or something to this effect. Sorry guys if I got something wrong with the way you came about the methods)

 

[hinien]

Cool beans man!
Remember, he is one of the gurus here and he has tested / analyzed Phalaris before. So listen closely to his wise words.
Jamie picked Phalaris and extracted spice, sent spice to endlessness for analysis and after results came back Jamie tried smoalking the spice. There is the results somewhere here.

I noticed endlessness knowledge by the outstanding 9500 posts o.o

I already saw the phalaris posts and the results of the analysis but Festi and Samonini work states that the Alkaloid content is determined by genetic traits, environment and the presence is variable in the various parts of the plant.

As i already know that AQ1 strains grew in almost the same environment as the phalaris i'm going to harvest, i can't say anything about local and jamies phalaris genetic profile, there are no information on how the harvest was made, wich part/s of plant was used and the time between harvest and extraction. All these factors change the alkaloid content of the phalaris, so it can be possible that endlessness report will differ a lot from what i get even if i would use the same tek.

Anyway i can't find many information or smoakin experiences on wild aquatica/tuberosa extracts, has anyone tried it?

 

[Noman]

I think it would be worth a try.
Endlessness - why do you think that it wouldn't work? I know that the procedure you posted would, but this seems like it might be viable as well. The only hitch I can think of is that the product of the carbonate and vinegar could be soluble in acetone.

 

[Electric Kool-Aid]

Ok.

Edit.
Please keep us updated. We all are curious to see the results.

 

[hinien]

I think it would be worth a try.
Endlessness - why do you think that it wouldn't work? I know that the procedure you posted would, but this seems like it might be viable as well. The only hitch I can think of is that the product of the carbonate and vinegar could be soluble in acetone.

Ok googled a bit..

sodium carbonate is Na2CO3
Acetic Acid is CH3COOH

2(CH3COO^- )+ 2(H^+) + (2Na^+ ) + (CO3^-2) ---->

2CH3COONa + H2CO3

It gives Sodium Acetate (aka Hot Ice), insoluble in acetone. and carbonic acid that rapidly becomes H20 and C02

should be ok.. any suggestions?

 

[endlessness]

Its not that it wouldnt work, it's that acetone is not at all selective to the desired alkaloids, it would also pull gramine and whatever other potential unwanted toxic alkaloids are there. And if you dont have some TLC plates to makes sure you're just getting what you want, its a bad idea to bioassay unknown crude phalaris extractions.

Check the updated FAQ entry out for some more info:

FAQ - DMT Frequently Asked Questions and Troubleshooting Guide - DMT-Nexus Wiki

wiki.dmt-nexus.me

 

[hinien]

Thanks a lot andlessness...
I can say you got some of the infomration from the festi and samonini work ^^
But if naptha is more selective on the alkaloids can i do some acetone pulls, then solve everything in naptha, strain and let dry again?

 

[endlessness]

Yeah as mentioned there, the info is from the festi and samorini work

You could do that for sure

 

[hinien]

Bad news, I'll be very busy with work for some weeks so i have to posticipate everything at the end of the month!

 

[Sevy]

mmmh, the first pic look like phalaris paradoxa to me...

 

[endlessness]

There's no hurry, hinien

 

[hinien]

mmmh, the first pic look like phalaris paradoxa to me...

Whoa! you could be right... Never heard of that paradoxa before..
I believe that many wild phalaris extractions have bad results because of wrong plant identifications... there are thousands of phalaris and some of them are really similar (like paradoxa and tuberosa)
Pics on internets and plant vendors websites shows that usually the leaf on paradoxa is close to (or covering) the seeds while in the plants i found it's closer to the ground. I also found that paradoxa is not present in my region, but of course i can't be sure of that.
I need a botanist
Pics found on the internet of phalaris are often not reliable.


Thanks a lot for the information, i'll try to figure it out

 

[hinien]

oooook as i promised i'm here after a month, now i have 3 free weeks and i have all the time i want. Here's the final procedure i came up with

ACID COOK (3x)

1. Put the plant powder in a pot.
2. Simmer it in vinegar. ( + salt? )
3. Slowly cook for 30 - 45 minutes and occasioanlly stir.
4. Divide plant matter from vinegar with a coffee filter.
5. Store vinegar in a jar

DEFATTING

1. Put 150ml naptha in the vinegar.
2. Shake Shake Shake
3. Let sit until layers create
4. Discard naptha

BASIFYING

1. Add Sodium Carbonate until ph is over 9 (Probably emulsion problems..)
2. shake/stir

PULL (3x)

1. Add 50ml Acetone.
2. Shake Shake Shake.
3. Let sit until layers create.
4. Separate and store acetone in another jar.
5. Let acetone dry.

REPULL

1. Put 100ml naptha on the dried mixture and stir/shake.
2. Divide insoluble material with a coffee filter.
3a. Put naptha in freezer, wait for dmt to recristrallize and separate .
3b. Evap at room temp