Is it possible to have a DMT high without DMT?

[Teddyman73]

Hi, I was wondering this because I think I may have had a DHT high before. This would have been when I was 13 or so (6 years ago) and I went to bed and was up for about 2 hours in bed by myself with my lights off and it felt like waves were going around the room and I was completely disorientated. I also felt like I couldn't move or think straight, that the room was incredibly large and distant, and that I was tiny, though I do remember lifting my arm up in front of my face at one stage, though I couldn't do much more than that, and that I felt like I was in a dream where nothing quite made sense.
I used to live on a farm and drink rain water until I was 14, and as recently as this year have had vivid dreams, which most other people find incredibly strange(except my best friend, who also has vivid dreams coincidentally), as I can remember them at random times, and l can sometimes realise I am dreaming, like once I had a dream with my friend and I asked him 'you realise we're dreaming right?' And then from my perspective he couldn't handle it and he woke up, while I found my self in a situation with tonnes of women and considered taking advantage of the situation... However I lost control when an ugly woman came and began to try to take advantage of me... Lol(this is actually true, because I had a plan to see what I could do in my dreams, however I didn't have the willpower to even make an imaginary girl bed me in my dreams, and it turned nightmarish and when the other woman came along I forgot I was dreaming
He didn't remember having a dream that night because I asked him the next morning

 

[3rdI]

do you mean DMT or is there another chemical called DHT?

have you smoalked DMT?

 

[Teddyman73]

Sorry, I meant DMT, autocorrect... And I haven't smoked it so far, I am just trying to figure everything out. Thanks for pointing out my mistakes

 

[3rdI]

I would say smoalk some and see.

my guess is no, you haven't experienced DMT.

however there are plenty of reports of night time weirdness on the forum, maybe one of the stories will resonate with your experience.

 

[Parshvik Chintan]

a lucid dream (however bizarre) does not a DMT experience make.

unless you smoalk dmt in your lucid dream, i have heard people say you can experience it that way too... but that is only with people who have tried dmt (presumably)

 

[indydude19]

It might be possible after many many years of meditative training. its been theorized that when monks who achieve enlightenment, after numerous years of training in their discipline, actually release DMT into their conscious mind upon achieving enlightenment, producing that otherworldy enlightening feeling and oneness with the universe that they experience. realistically that is the only way i could imagine it even being plausible.

 

[soulfood]

It might be possible after many many years of meditative training. its been theorized that when monks who achieve enlightenment, after numerous years of training in their discipline, actually release DMT into their conscious mind upon achieving enlightenment, producing that otherworldy enlightening feeling and oneness with the universe that they experience. realistically that is the only way i could imagine it even being plausible.

This would be a completely different experience to vaping DMT though. Mainly the onset is different obviously.

I find it hard to believe that meditation alone could do what DMT can. Also if I dedicated a lifetime to meditation and then at the end just kinda... broke through... I'd WTF like you wouldn't believe. DMT WTF's hard enough anyway.

 

[universecannon]

Yeah, but for me the full on smoked breakthrough level experiences are through dreams

Generally my 'sober' and dream experience are more like some kind of endo-hausca as opposed to being like smoked dmt on its own though

There's been a number of threads on this if you do a search :]

 

[indydude19]

It might be possible after many many years of meditative training. its been theorized that when monks who achieve enlightenment, after numerous years of training in their discipline, actually release DMT into their conscious mind upon achieving enlightenment, producing that otherworldy enlightening feeling and oneness with the universe that they experience. realistically that is the only way i could imagine it even being plausible.

This would be a completely different experience to vaping DMT though. Mainly the onset is different obviously.

I find it hard to believe that meditation alone could do what DMT can. Also if I dedicated a lifetime to meditation and then at the end just kinda... broke through... I'd WTF like you wouldn't believe. DMT WTF's hard enough anyway.

i just know that some have thought that the brain releases a large amount of DMT during mystical experiences as they would in a near death experience or in dying. i imagine it would be a more subtle onset though kind of like a huasca trip that doesnt hit you like a brick wall haha. I mean it would be pretty amazing to induce that on yourself for the first time in your life experiencing it. like your just sitting there and after 30 years all of a sudden you find your center and break through by just sitting there focusing? that would be more mind blowing than an artificial breakthrough imo because you feel all the significance of achieving it as opposed to just getting or making it and having respect for it. your mind set would be on a whole different level if your zoned in like that for your trip. who knows maybe the mind would be so ready you could actually explore it in a completely different way than probably anyone on here has done otherwise. not knocking anyone's ability to self explore during these trips though, i became pretty good at interacting with that world myself when i use to do DMT heavily the first couple times i produced it. But meditation to trip naturally is just like achieving transcendence, evolution of the mind kind of stuff haha.

 

[Entheogenerator]

i just know that some have thought that the brain releases a large amount of DMT during mystical experiences as they would in a near death experience or in dying. i imagine it would be a more subtle onset though kind of like a huasca trip that doesnt hit you like a brick wall haha. I mean it would be pretty amazing to induce that on yourself for the first time in your life experiencing it. like your just sitting there and after 30 years all of a sudden you find your center and break through by just sitting there focusing? that would be more mind blowing than an artificial breakthrough imo because you feel all the significance of achieving it as opposed to just getting or making it and having respect for it. your mind set would be on a whole different level if your zoned in like that for your trip. who knows maybe the mind would be so ready you could actually explore it in a completely different way than probably anyone on here has done otherwise. not knocking anyone's ability to self explore during these trips though, i became pretty good at interacting with that world myself when i use to do DMT heavily the first couple times i produced it. But meditation to trip naturally is just like achieving transcendence, evolution of the mind kind of stuff haha.

The theory is that the brain produces DMT (theoretically in the the pineal gland) and releases it during death, sleep, and mystical experience.

This is merely a theory that Dr. Strassman proposed, and there is little evidence to substantiate it thus far. From my understanding, I would say there is some evidence against it (although not much), if anything.

I'm not saying that the brain absolutely does not produce DMT, because I don't know that to be fact. I'm just saying that it is not looking so good for that theory as of right now.

 

[indydude19]

i just know that some have thought that the brain releases a large amount of DMT during mystical experiences as they would in a near death experience or in dying. i imagine it would be a more subtle onset though kind of like a huasca trip that doesnt hit you like a brick wall haha. I mean it would be pretty amazing to induce that on yourself for the first time in your life experiencing it. like your just sitting there and after 30 years all of a sudden you find your center and break through by just sitting there focusing? that would be more mind blowing than an artificial breakthrough imo because you feel all the significance of achieving it as opposed to just getting or making it and having respect for it. your mind set would be on a whole different level if your zoned in like that for your trip. who knows maybe the mind would be so ready you could actually explore it in a completely different way than probably anyone on here has done otherwise. not knocking anyone's ability to self explore during these trips though, i became pretty good at interacting with that world myself when i use to do DMT heavily the first couple times i produced it. But meditation to trip naturally is just like achieving transcendence, evolution of the mind kind of stuff haha.

The theory is that the brain produces DMT (theoretically in the the pineal gland) and releases it during death, sleep, and mystical experience.

This is merely a theory that Dr. Strassman proposed, and there is little evidence to substantiate it thus far. From my understanding, I would say there is some evidence against it (although not much), if anything.

I'm not saying that the brain absolutely does not produce DMT, because I don't know that to be fact. I'm just saying that it is not looking so good for that theory as of right now.

I thought that DMT and NMT traces have been found in urine and other bodily fluids as a product of natural metabolism though? I will definitely have to look into this more. im curious what evidence are you referring to that might be arguing against it though?

 

[inconspicuous]

I used to live on a farm and drink rain water until I was 14, and as recently as this year have had vivid dreams, which most other people find incredibly strange

I read somewhere that Fluorine added to regular tap water inhibits the pineal gland by crystallising it. Perhaps if this glad is responsible for the production of your own DMT then that might go some way to explaining why other people don't have the same vivid dreams as you? Do you know if your best friend was in the same situation.. where (s)he was not regularly drinking tap water?

I am very new to this and have spent the last week reading and watching everything I can on everything to do with DMT, reality and quantum physics. Super interesting stuff!

 

[Entheogenerator]

I read somewhere that Fluorine added to regular tap water inhibits the pineal gland by crystallising it. Perhaps if this glad is responsible for the production of your own DMT then that might go some way to explaining why other people don't have the same vivid dreams as you? Do you know if your best friend was in the same situation.. where (s)he was not regularly drinking tap water?

I am very new to this and have spent the last week reading and watching everything I can on everything to do with DMT, reality and quantum physics. Super interesting stuff!

Calcium fluoride can be found in a lot of things, not just tap water. Calcium deposits can form on the pineal gland, but so far I have not seen much evidence for the whole "pineal gland is the antenna for the soul" theory. That being said, I do try to avoid ingesting calcium fluoride because I don't believe there is any benefit to ingesting it, aside from maybe shiny white teeth.

Published in Science in 1961, Julius Axelrod found an N-methyltransferase enzyme capable of mediating biotransformation of tryptamine into DMT in a rabbit's lung.[22] This finding initiated a still ongoing scientific interest in endogenous DMT production in humans and other mammals.[23][28] From then on, two major complementary lines of evidence have been investigated: localization and further characterization of the N-methyltransferase enzyme, and analytical studies looking for endogenously produced DMT in body fluids and tissues.[23]

In 2013, researchers first reported DMT in the pineal gland microdialysate of rodents.[29]

At this point in time, the enzymes that would be required to produce DMT have yet to be found in the human brain.

Read this segment in the wiki for more info and links.

 

[indydude19]

thanks for the link! i had read the lower section about ayahuasca but must have skipped over that part. i am very interested to see future research on this, i still hold hope that it is produced in the brain, but am definitely rethinking my position a bit. Its appropriate i feel a bit silly for not doing more thorough research beyond the spirit molecule and speculations supporting that view, isn't it?

 

[Ez]

I am pretty sure that the debate isn't so much if it's in there, so much as where and how it is made.

Here is a very interesting link http://www.cottonwoodresearch.org/dmt-pineal-2013/

 

[OBE-Kon-bro-bi]

I have experienced both N,N-DMT and 5-Meo-DMT endogenously before. Before I had these experiences I had tried both theses chemicals through external sources so I know both experiences well. It happened during a 14 week stay at a meditation center, but not during meditation. The N,N-DMT experience was rather light and non-profound and it happened right after a woke up and was trying to project myself out of body. The 5-Meo-DMT experience however was full on an happened while I was standing near a pond. It was a very profound experience that changed my life forever. In both cases the taste of the chemical was present in my mouth, and the experience fit to a T to my previous experiences of ayahuasca and snorting 5-Meo-DMT. There is no doubt in my mind that these chemicals were present during theses experiences, although there is no way to prove this obviously. I have never had a repeat of either one of these experiences, but I do think it is possible to have them with out taking them externally.

 

[Global]

My take on DMT and dreaming has long been this (and I've had the "smoke DMT in your dreams" as well):

Let's start off with an example that I think most can relate to. Let's say I have a friend or relative...let's just say an uncle just as an arbitrary example...whom I haven't seen in some time. All of a sudden on Monday, I think about him for the first time in a while for some strange reason - perhaps something reminded me of him. A few days go by and now it's Friday and all of a sudden said uncle is in my dream. At least for myself, and I'll suppose about many others too, that all it takes is a simple thought on a particular subject, and all of a sudden it's showing up in dreams. Well now let's apply this logic to DMT. DMT is a subject which many members admittedly can't get off their minds. They think about it obsessively. I know this has been something of the case for myself at times, and the fact that members return day after day to read and post here is a testament to that.

To me, it stands to reason that a topic which can take such high priority in one's thoughts and that can occur with such frequency would likely show up in a dream when it's possible for small thoughts to infiltrate their way into dreams as such. For this reason, DMT itself doesn't necessarily have to be involved in the dreaming process any more than my uncle would be responsible for why I dream or why any particular subject appears in a dream. From the way I look at it, it seems incredibly likely that one would dream about something that begs to be thought of so frequently, but I wouldn't necessarily say that it stands apart from any other kind of dream. Ok: it's vivid, and realistic and trippy; however, lots of dreams are vivid and realistic, and especially for those who have experienced DMT and who have an expectation of the kinds of goings-on and aesthetics of hyperspace, I see a case for how DMT can appear in dreams without any of the chemical directly impacting the dream at all.

 

[indydude19]

My take on DMT and dreaming has long been this (and I've had the "smoke DMT in your dreams" as well):

Let's start off with an example that I think most can relate to. Let's say I have a friend or relative...let's just say an uncle just as an arbitrary example...whom I haven't seen in some time. All of a sudden on Monday, I think about him for the first time in a while for some strange reason - perhaps something reminded me of him. A few days go by and now it's Friday and all of a sudden said uncle is in my dream. At least for myself, and I'll suppose about many others too, that all it takes is a simple thought on a particular subject, and all of a sudden it's showing up in dreams. Well now let's apply this logic to DMT. DMT is a subject which many members admittedly can't get off their minds. They think about it obsessively. I know this has been something of the case for myself at times, and the fact that members return day after day to read and post here is a testament to that.

To me, it stands to reason that a topic which can take such high priority in one's thoughts and that can occur with such frequency would likely show up in a dream when it's possible for small thoughts to infiltrate their way into dreams as such. For this reason, DMT itself doesn't necessarily have to be involved in the dreaming process any more than my uncle would be responsible for why I dream or why any particular subject appears in a dream. From the way I look at it, it seems incredibly likely that one would dream about something that begs to be thought of so frequently, but I wouldn't necessarily say that it stands apart from any other kind of dream. Ok: it's vivid, and realistic and trippy; however, lots of dreams are vivid and realistic, and especially for those who have experienced DMT and who have an expectation of the kinds of goings-on and aesthetics of hyperspace, I see a case for how DMT can appear in dreams without any of the chemical directly impacting the dream at all.

Neat way of looking at it. I need to reevaluate and do more research before I have a concrete stance now. But your example reminds me a little of an African plant I read about once. I can't remember the the name at the moment but I'll post it once I find it.

Anyways that plant can be prepared before bed like a tea and drank. If you then focus on a particular question you want answered when you fall asleep, then an ancestor or relative will appear in your dreams and answer your question. At least that's how the reports go from what I remember. I'll find a link for them and post it as soon as I can. It's pretty interesting

 

[Global]

Neat way of looking at it. I need to reevaluate and do more research before I have a concrete stance now. But your example reminds me a little of an African plant I read about once. I can't remember the the name at the moment but I'll post it once I find it.

Anyways that plant can be prepared before bed like a tea and drank. If you then focus on a particular question you want answered when you fall asleep, then an ancestor or relative will appear in your dreams and answer your question. At least that's how the reports go from what I remember. I'll find a link for them and post it as soon as I can. It's pretty interesting

Are you referring to calea zacatechichi? Not sure if this is an African plant or not, but it is implicated in affecting dreams.

 

[jamie]

I read somewhere that Fluorine added to regular tap water inhibits the pineal gland by crystallising it. Perhaps if this glad is responsible for the production of your own DMT then that might go some way to explaining why other people don't have the same vivid dreams as you? Do you know if your best friend was in the same situation.. where (s)he was not regularly drinking tap water?

I am very new to this and have spent the last week reading and watching everything I can on everything to do with DMT, reality and quantum physics. Super interesting stuff!

Calcium fluoride can be found in a lot of things, not just tap water. Calcium deposits can form on the pineal gland, but so far I have not seen much evidence for the whole "pineal gland is the antenna for the soul" theory. That being said, I do try to avoid ingesting calcium fluoride because I don't believe there is any benefit to ingesting it, aside from maybe shiny white teeth.

Published in Science in 1961, Julius Axelrod found an N-methyltransferase enzyme capable of mediating biotransformation of tryptamine into DMT in a rabbit's lung.[22] This finding initiated a still ongoing scientific interest in endogenous DMT production in humans and other mammals.[23][28] From then on, two major complementary lines of evidence have been investigated: localization and further characterization of the N-methyltransferase enzyme, and analytical studies looking for endogenously produced DMT in body fluids and tissues.[23]

In 2013, researchers first reported DMT in the pineal gland microdialysate of rodents.[29]

At this point in time, the enzymes that would be required to produce DMT have yet to be found in the human brain.

Read this segment in the wiki for more info and links.

BTW..just becasue it is brought up here..calcium fluoride is not what is added to tap water. Sodium fluoride and calcium fluoride are not the same thing..and the ammounts of sodium fluoride added to tap water are well above the levels found in spring/river water etc normally.

The reality is, that noone really knows what happens long term when you add something like sodium fluroide to the public drinking water, although we know what happens when we drink calcium fluoride in the ammounts present naturally in the environment, becasue we have been doing that for as long as we have been around.