Is it possible to have a DMT high without DMT?

[indydude19]

Neat way of looking at it. I need to reevaluate and do more research before I have a concrete stance now. But your example reminds me a little of an African plant I read about once. I can't remember the the name at the moment but I'll post it once I find it.

Anyways that plant can be prepared before bed like a tea and drank. If you then focus on a particular question you want answered when you fall asleep, then an ancestor or relative will appear in your dreams and answer your question. At least that's how the reports go from what I remember. I'll find a link for them and post it as soon as I can. It's pretty interesting

Are you referring to calea zacatechichi? Not sure if this is an African plant or not, but it is implicated in affecting dreams.

Could be. The only thing I remember off the top of my head is its nickname is the "African dream root" I believe. When I'm at a computer I'll look it up for sure and post it.

 

[dreamer042]

Neat way of looking at it. I need to reevaluate and do more research before I have a concrete stance now. But your example reminds me a little of an African plant I read about once. I can't remember the the name at the moment but I'll post it once I find it.

Anyways that plant can be prepared before bed like a tea and drank. If you then focus on a particular question you want answered when you fall asleep, then an ancestor or relative will appear in your dreams and answer your question. At least that's how the reports go from what I remember. I'll find a link for them and post it as soon as I can. It's pretty interesting

Are you referring to calea zacatechichi? Not sure if this is an African plant or not, but it is implicated in affecting dreams.

Could be. The only thing I remember off the top of my head is its nickname is the "African dream root" I believe. When I'm at a computer I'll look it up for sure and post it.

The African dream root of which you speak is Silene Capensis. Calea is known commonly as Mexican dream herb, both are powerful dreamtime medicines.

 

[jamie]

I have had many breakthrough DMt experiences in dreams, almost always dreams that invovle lucidity at some point..and NOT from smoking DMT in the dream..and I mean very very intense tryptamine breakthroughs. This has never happened to me durring meditations or durring my half awake astral stuff at night, nor is it like any kind of sleep paralysis. It has only ever happend while fully dreaming, and then the dream turns into a DMT trip. I dont know what else to say about it, other than that I think my brain is relseasing a massive dose of DMT.

This is not like ayahuasca either..it is specifically like smoking a tryptamine. I even hear the carrier wave rapidly accelerating. Almost every time this happens I go lucid within the experience and realize I am having a DMT trip inside my dream, without smoking DMT in the dream. It happens usually at a certain height within the dream as well..like my neurotransmitter levels have been building up to this.

To say that lucid dreams are DMT trips, is false..becasue they just are not. I still think there is an aspect to the dreaming state that can trigger large dose tryptamine release in the brain.

The first time I smoked DMT, I instantly remembered it as something that would happen me to at night as a child..which rules out the view that some take, that this is just a memory thing. I never smoked DMT as a child.

 

[indydude19]

Neat way of looking at it. I need to reevaluate and do more research before I have a concrete stance now. But your example reminds me a little of an African plant I read about once. I can't remember the the name at the moment but I'll post it once I find it.

Anyways that plant can be prepared before bed like a tea and drank. If you then focus on a particular question you want answered when you fall asleep, then an ancestor or relative will appear in your dreams and answer your question. At least that's how the reports go from what I remember. I'll find a link for them and post it as soon as I can. It's pretty interesting

Are you referring to calea zacatechichi? Not sure if this is an African plant or not, but it is implicated in affecting dreams.

Could be. The only thing I remember off the top of my head is its nickname is the "African dream root" I believe. When I'm at a computer I'll look it up for sure and post it.

The African dream root of which you speak is Silene Capensis. Calea is known commonly as Mexican dream herb, both are powerful dreamtime medicines.

Marvelous dreamer! I suppose it's not surprising you would know of dream roots well :d I'm thinking of experimenting with dream roots and other obscure plants with entheogenic properties.

Anyone have any neat suggestions off the top of their heads worth looking into directly instead of blindly searching? I love how much there is to Learn here and how easy it is to ffind everything and get advice, this is truly a one of a kind forum with exceptional people.

Peace and light

 

[OBE-Kon-bro-bi]

On the subject of dreaming... When I used to put much more time into lucid dreaming there were a couple of times where when I was lucid that I intensionally smoked pot and dropped acid, both of with which seemed exactly like the real thing. I can't imagine why it wouldn't work with DMT as well...

 

[Entheogenerator]

I am pretty sure that the debate isn't so much if it's in there, so much as where and how it is made.

Here is a very interesting link http://www.cottonwoodresearch.org/dmt-pineal-2013/

Yes, DMT has been found in the pineal gland of rats. Rats are not humans.

DMT has been found in the human body, no doubt about that. But not in the pineal gland, nor anywhere else in the brain. At this point, anything beyond "DMT is produced somewhere in the human body, but nobody has any idea what function is serves", is merely conjecture.

 

[inextweekelorp]

I can't attest to its validity but I remember awhile back someone posted a copy of Darkness Techniques for Enlightenment by Mantak Chia. It was a short little thing about his light deprivation retreats but in it he described MAO as a sort of inhibitory enzyme and said that in its absence the body would naturally break down Tryptophan > Serotonin > Melatonin > Pinoline > 5 MeO DMT > DMT. Like I said I haven't researched that claim outside of reading it but does anyone with some neurochem knowledge know if that sounds far fetched?

 

[Global]

I can't attest to its validity but I remember awhile back someone posted a copy of Darkness Techniques for Enlightenment by Mantak Chia. It was a short little thing about his light deprivation retreats but in it he described MAO as a sort of inhibitory enzyme and said that in its absence the body would naturally break down Tryptophan > Serotonin > Melatonin > Pinoline > 5 MeO DMT > DMT. Like I said I haven't researched that claim outside of reading it but does anyone with some neurochem knowledge know if that sounds far fetched?

I can't say anything for sure, and I sure can't tell you much about the breaking down of tryptophan in the body, but as an educated guess, I would wager that it stands to reason that in the absence of MAO in the body, the endogenous DMT that is already there would probably be able to reach higher natural concentrations. Whether it would be enough to register on people's radars and how it would affect daily consciousness would be intriguing.

 

[indydude19]

I can't attest to its validity but I remember awhile back someone posted a copy of Darkness Techniques for Enlightenment by Mantak Chia. It was a short little thing about his light deprivation retreats but in it he described MAO as a sort of inhibitory enzyme and said that in its absence the body would naturally break down Tryptophan > Serotonin > Melatonin > Pinoline > 5 MeO DMT > DMT. Like I said I haven't researched that claim outside of reading it but does anyone with some neurochem knowledge know if that sounds far fetched?

I can't say anything for sure, and I sure can't tell you much about the breaking down of tryptophan in the body, but as an educated guess, I would wager that it stands to reason that in the absence of MAO in the body, the endogenous DMT that is already there would probably be able to reach higher natural concentrations. Whether it would be enough to register on people's radars and how it would affect daily consciousness would be intriguing.

It would be weird if the absence of the MAO created a higher natural concentration and a longer duration of trip, whether its endogenous or not. Kind of like how animals without the enzymes to break down alcohol stay real drunk for awhile if they are given alcohol.

I wonder if that would affect tolerance build up too?

 

[Global]

Since taking an MAOi essentially does just that (lengthens the trip and allows the DMT to remain in higher concentrations for longer) I don't see why this wouldn't be the case as well in this hypothetical scenario of being MAO-less. I suppose if such a situation were to exist, the DMT would have to be excreted in order to diminish its effects since there would be no enzyme to break it down. Perhaps there are enzymes in the body that could still break down the DMT that are less efficient, but I'm not sure it works like that.

 

[sjaman]

Pay attention when you go to sleep and when you wake up during the night.

 

[benzyme]

I can't attest to its validity but I remember awhile back someone posted a copy of Darkness Techniques for Enlightenment by Mantak Chia. It was a short little thing about his light deprivation retreats but in it he described MAO as a sort of inhibitory enzyme and said that in its absence the body would naturally break down Tryptophan > Serotonin > Melatonin > Pinoline > 5 MeO DMT > DMT. Like I said I haven't researched that claim outside of reading it but does anyone with some neurochem knowledge know if that sounds far fetched?

actually, it does.
there isn't an enzyme which would remove the methoxy from 5-MeO-DMT.

Pay attention when you go to sleep and when you wake up during the night.

I do. It's called "sleepiness".

 

[universecannon]

My take on DMT and dreaming has long been this (and I've had the "smoke DMT in your dreams" as well):

Let's start off with an example that I think most can relate to. Let's say I have a friend or relative...let's just say an uncle just as an arbitrary example...whom I haven't seen in some time. All of a sudden on Monday, I think about him for the first time in a while for some strange reason - perhaps something reminded me of him. A few days go by and now it's Friday and all of a sudden said uncle is in my dream. At least for myself, and I'll suppose about many others too, that all it takes is a simple thought on a particular subject, and all of a sudden it's showing up in dreams. Well now let's apply this logic to DMT. DMT is a subject which many members admittedly can't get off their minds. They think about it obsessively. I know this has been something of the case for myself at times, and the fact that members return day after day to read and post here is a testament to that.

To me, it stands to reason that a topic which can take such high priority in one's thoughts and that can occur with such frequency would likely show up in a dream when it's possible for small thoughts to infiltrate their way into dreams as such. For this reason, DMT itself doesn't necessarily have to be involved in the dreaming process any more than my uncle would be responsible for why I dream or why any particular subject appears in a dream. From the way I look at it, it seems incredibly likely that one would dream about something that begs to be thought of so frequently, but I wouldn't necessarily say that it stands apart from any other kind of dream. Ok: it's vivid, and realistic and trippy; however, lots of dreams are vivid and realistic, and especially for those who have experienced DMT and who have an expectation of the kinds of goings-on and aesthetics of hyperspace, I see a case for how DMT can appear in dreams without any of the chemical directly impacting the dream at all.

That's an idea that I'm sure is involved in some ways but there are still a number of things that remain to be explained; namely how/what is exactly going on in the brain during a dream dmt trip. But there is also the fact that others and myself have had many different kinds of psychedelic experiences in dreams, some of which are unlike anything we've tried before.

For me they all mostly happen spontaneously, without smoking anything in the actual dream. And then there are these other very dmt-esque experiences that occur while awake which remain to be explained

One thing that still really boggles me is the two dmt experiences i'd had in a dream long before even trying dmt in waking life

 

[Citta]

My take on this is that yes, it is possible to get a "DMT high" while not on DMT. This must be understood in some restricted sense, or perhaps unrestricted depending on how you are looking at it*. What I mean is that the kind of experience DMT produces, i.e the kind of transcendence where you enter a "different world", feel like you are peeking behind the scenery of reality, the communication with seemingly intelligent entities with their own personality, meeting the "reality producers", communion with deities and so on and so forth, is possible to have without ingesting DMT. This has been described by most if not all proper mystery traditions through human history, and is the goal of mystical initiation in these said traditions, or cults if you will. In some instances psychoactives may have been consumed, but certainly not all. It is also the theme of most every myths and mythology, which can be understood as

*With unrestricted here I mean that the DMT-flash is so very short, and for many hard to navigate and confusing. However, the mystagogue (also called Hierophant, in Attica the name of the chief priest in the Eleusinian Mysteries) as described in ancient traditions, as well as a proper mystagogues or mystics in modern times, is able to navigate freely at extended intervals of time through these other-wordly realms, as well as initiate others in rituals, often of very a very sadomasochistic character, so that they may have this transcendence themselves.

I will attach a PDF file, "The supernatural world" by Danish author, philosopher and poet Erwin Neutszky-Wulff whom I have read a lot of books from. He has both feet inside the kind of stuff I talked about earlier, and may shed some light on how it is possible to transcend just as profound without DMT as with DMT. Note that the PDF is translated, not officially, from Danish to English, so it may be somewhat incomplete.

Interesting reading and food for thought for many here I assume.

 

[bopbopbata]

i recently had one after i fell asleep on MJ tincture. i woke up thinking i ha a seizure but saw my whole field of vision wrapped in dmt visuals.

 

[TryptamineChampion]

Hi, I was wondering this because I think I may have had a DHT high before. This would have been when I was 13 or so (6 years ago) and I went to bed and was up for about 2 hours in bed by myself with my lights off and it felt like waves were going around the room and I was completely disorientated. I also felt like I couldn't move or think straight, that the room was incredibly large and distant, and that I was tiny, though I do remember lifting my arm up in front of my face at one stage, though I couldn't do much more than that, and that I felt like I was in a dream where nothing quite made sense.
I used to live on a farm and drink rain water until I was 14, and as recently as this year have had vivid dreams, which most other people find incredibly strange(except my best friend, who also has vivid dreams coincidentally), as I can remember them at random times, and l can sometimes realise I am dreaming, like once I had a dream with my friend and I asked him 'you realise we're dreaming right?' And then from my perspective he couldn't handle it and he woke up, while I found my self in a situation with tonnes of women and considered taking advantage of the situation... However I lost control when an ugly woman came and began to try to take advantage of me... Lol(this is actually true, because I had a plan to see what I could do in my dreams, however I didn't have the willpower to even make an imaginary girl bed me in my dreams, and it turned nightmarish and when the other woman came along I forgot I was dreaming
He didn't remember having a dream that night because I asked him the next morning

Try A Float Tank Or Staring At Somthing Using Your Periphial Vision Without Breaking Concentration