Is psilohuasca an ayahuasca equivalent?

[Sabnock1990]

Ime, Psilohuasca and Ayahuasca are very similar Serotonergically-speaking, they take me to the same place, they just overall feel a bit different, DMT for example is ime heavily Adrenergic which is what makes it so intense but also contributes to the clarity of the headspace and the more NDE-like feel to it, feels more like a neurotransmitter released by the Adrenals in response to something highly stressful for example, whereas Psilocin lacks that Adrenergic aspect of DMT but seems to give a very similar Serotonergic effect to DMT, so in the Serotonergic aspect Psilocin and oral DMT are kinda interchangeable ime, though it's important to remember that DMT binds to a lot of different receptors that Psilocin as far as i know doesn't, so there obviously will be some differences, and when you're talking about mushrooms vs say 4-ACO-DMT, for Psilohuasca they're both pretty much the same but mushrooms having other compounds in them alongside the Psilocybin/Psilocin it's going to feel more mushroomy and with some other properties/feelings/effects that you wouldn't get from 4-ACO-DMT or even pure Psilocybin/Psilocin, just like with Acacia and Mimosa and Chacruna and Chaliponga feeling different because of the different background compounds which can contribute to the overall effects, the DMT or Psilocin gets "colored" by the additional compounds via synergy.

But yeah ime i found Psilohuasca to be very similar to Aya, in fact Psilohuasca IS Ayahuasca, since the main overall effect/medicine comes from the Harmala portion, with Psilohuasca it becomes an Ayahuasca experience rather than a mushroom experience, and so the overall medicine is still Ayahuasca and as such can provide many of the same effects/benefits, but there are no doubt some differences, including the fact that Psilohuasca can last 9 to 12 hours while Aya lasts about 6 to 8.

Also i've noticed that it almost feels like Harmalas/MAO-A inhibition brings out or activates the DMT portion of the molecule, and i've read a few others say that as well, like it feels closer to DMT then but still misses out on the receptor binding differences.

Also worth noting ime is that Psilohuasca seems to lack that forceful purgative effect that Aya with oral DMT has, DMT's Adrenergic properties imo is what causes more of that forceful purgative effect, whereas because Psilocin lacks those Adrenergic properties it's lighter on the gut and doesn't cause the vomiting, though one can still vomit on Psilohuasca due to the Acetylcholine increase from the Harmalas' Acetylcholinesterase inhibition, ime, people can also get nausea and vomit from the chitin in mushroom material but tea should eliminate that, or using 4-ACO-DMT.

 

[northape]

there are no doubt some differences, including the fact that Psilohuasca can last 9 to 12 hours while Aya lasts about 6 to 8

Aya can last over 12h if the dose is high enough, ime. Yet, I would not advise anyone to go there unprepared. I can remember a few endless ceremonies that were both difficult and blissful. I do not have enough experience with psilohuasca to say more about it.

 

[Sabnock1990]

Aya can last over 12h if the dose is high enough, ime. Yet, I would not advise anyone to go there unprepared. I can remember a few endless ceremonies that were both difficult and blissful. I do not have enough experience with psilohuasca to say more about it.

Yeah for me i know the Harmala's can last around 12 hours if dosed high enough, the DMT though for me seems to metabolize on out around 4 to 5 hours in so lasts about 4 to 5 hours max though maybe with an extra hour of come down, and i can certainly still feel the afterglow until the Harmalas start wearing off and then brain's MAO-A inhibition goes away, but the main bulk of the Aya experience seems to be around a handful of hours, typically 6 to 8 hours, sometimes around 4 hours for some people. Even the duration of DMT can vary a bit especially if it's not orally activated properly it can come up and then come down quickly lasting like maybe 30 minutes to 3 hours, at least ime, but when activated properly it seems to last a max of around 4 to 5 hours, the rest after that is the afterglow and the Harmalas until the Harmalas wear off.

Whereas with Psilohuasca, the peak seems to get extended for a few hours, and i don't feel it start coming down until around hours 9 to 12, so by far Psilohuasca in terms of Psychedelic effects seems to last a few hours longer than Aya with oral DMT. One can even mix oral DMT and mushrooms/4-ACO-DMT with Harmalas and when the DMT wears off the Psilocin is still goin' strong lol, which is really nice btw.

 

[Transform]

One can even mix oral DMT and mushrooms/4-ACO-DMT with Harmalas and when the DMT wears off the Psilocin is still goin' strong lol, which is really nice btw.

This is now on my shortlist for the next available slot.

 

[new_science]

I have twice used harmalas in conjunction with mushrooms in a tea with water and lemon juice. During these two experiments I want to say I was at a + at most by six hours after drinking the tea. The harmalas were consumed approximately an hour before the mushrooms, 4g peganum harmala, also in tea. Just a thought for those looking to retain some brevity of journey while also utilizing the harmal benefits. Full disclaimer that YYMV, however it may be be useful for those considering this combo to know that it is possible to experience psilohuasca without a 12 or even 8 hour commitment.

 

[Sabnock1990]

I have twice used harmalas in conjunction with mushrooms in a tea with water and lemon juice. During these two experiments I want to say I was at a + at most by six hours after drinking the tea. The harmalas were consumed approximately an hour before the mushrooms, 4g peganum harmala, also in tea. Just a thought for those looking to retain some brevity of journey while also utilizing the harmal benefits. Full disclaimer that YYMV, however it may be be useful for those considering this combo to know that it is possible to experience psilohuasca without a 12 or even 8 hour commitment.

For sure, if you don't take mushrooms at the appropriate time (ideally when gut MAO-A is fully/maximally inhibited) then it won't be potentiated by the gut's MAO-A inhibition as far as duration goes, so that one can still get the usual duration from mushrooms alongside the Harmala benefits, so that is an interesting tidbit to point out, one can either have the usual duration or a lengthened duration. However it is worth pointing out that it is a timing thing, and if one takes the mushrooms at the appropriate time it will likely stretch out in duration to 9 to 12 hours, so when going for Psilohuasca, regardless, make sure you set aside a 9 to 12 hour period just in case, even if one is aiming for a more normal duration.

 

[new_science]

My ad-hoc technique was simply to drink the mushroom tea when I felt effects of the harmala kick in; admittedly this was during my nascent phase with the medicine and my imperfect test was to watch for tracers when waving my hands around in the air. I presumed that this would have given way to the correct timing of MAO-A inhibition prior to the consumption of mushrooms, but it's of course possible that I was/am mistaken. For me, mushroom tea on its own lasts significantly less than six hours so having a potentiated-by-harmal experience mostly over in the same time frame made sense to me.

I would say that my two experiences with psilohuasca are not a whole lot to draw on re: conclusions of duration and more research is warranted.

 

[northape]

Yeah for me i know the Harmala's can last around 12 hours if dosed high enough, the DMT though for me seems to metabolize on out around 4 to 5 hours in so lasts about 4 to 5 hours max though maybe with an extra hour of come down, and i can certainly still feel the afterglow until the Harmalas start wearing off and then brain's MAO-A inhibition goes away, but the main bulk of the Aya experience seems to be around a handful of hours, typically 6 to 8 hours, sometimes around 4 hours for some people. Even the duration of DMT can vary a bit especially if it's not orally activated properly it can come up and then come down quickly lasting like maybe 30 minutes to 3 hours, at least ime, but when activated properly it seems to last a max of around 4 to 5 hours, the rest after that is the afterglow and the Harmalas until the Harmalas wear off.

Whereas with Psilohuasca, the peak seems to get extended for a few hours, and i don't feel it start coming down until around hours 9 to 12, so by far Psilohuasca in terms of Psychedelic effects seems to last a few hours longer than Aya with oral DMT. One can even mix oral DMT and mushrooms/4-ACO-DMT with Harmalas and when the DMT wears off the Psilocin is still goin' strong lol, which is really nice btw.

I was thinking more about utilizing the full potential of aya and drinking throughout the night, so it was 3-4 doses with both harmalas and dmt-admix. Reading your post, it makes a lot of sense. You basically keep yourself in the space through redosing. Even after the 2nd dose, it's a commitment to drink more. I had a bottle of rue & acacia tea and was just drinking from it in the end. One can take one strong dose in the beginning, but it feels quite overwhelming. I was thinking about revisiting Psilohuasca, but chali satisfies all my needs right now. These long journeys are pretty hard both physically and mentally, too.

 

[Jamie01]

If you take sublingual harmalas once the psilocybin kicks in you can get a lot of the benefits without extending the duration much. IME

 

[Sabnock1990]

If you take sublingual harmalas once the psilocybin kicks in you can get a lot of the benefits without extending the duration much. IME

I tried similar one time while on 4-ACO-DMT, i smoked some Rue/Harmala extract on top of some Cannabis and the Harmalas lasted for about a couple hours and it turned into a Psilohuasca experience, definitely got the benefits of the Harmalas just from smoking em' so i imagine that sublingual Harmalas would do similarly for sure. You won't get the extended duration from smoked or sublingual Harmalas, it seems to be more of a gut MAO-A thing and requires gut MAO-A to be inhibited to have a proper potentiation of the dosage and duration, but the effects and perhaps dosage to some degree can still be potentiated via smoked and i'd imagine sublingual Harmalas but the duration effect is definitely more of a gut MAO-A inhibition thing ime.

 

[Sabnock1990]

Also i just really wanna point out and give credit to, 4-ACO-DMT. I've had a handful of experiences with it in the past as well as using it for a source of Psilohuasca, and it has given me some very interesting experiences, especially with Cannabis in the mix, i really wanna explore it more in the time to come, it definitely has it's own activity at first before it's metabolized into Psilocin, but once it's metabolized into Psilocin you can definitely feel that it's Psilocin, especially in combination with Harmalas for Psilohuasca it's identical to when using mushrooms for Psilohuasca, same effects, same feelings, same territory, same extension in duration and potentiation of dosage, it's definitely Psilocin, and so i think that's really cool lol. I think my highest dosage on it's own would've been 75mgs iirc, i also tried 50mgs, 30 to 35mgs, 20 to 25mgs, i liked 35mgs in combination with the Harmalas, the 20 to 25mgs in combination with Harmalas was good too but not as full on as i would've liked, on it's own though i like 50 to 75mgs, that's as high as i've gone, but i got the most out of it with 35mgs+Harmalas.

 

[doubledog]

If you take sublingual harmalas once the psilocybin kicks in you can get a lot of the benefits without extending the duration much. IME

I have similar approach, sublingual harmalas (from caapi) 10min before drinking mushroom tea. Strong potentiation, duration only slightly longer.