Is there any way to make mescaline more bioavailable?

[CactusRyan]

20-50% of mescaline is exerted in the urine unchanged and 13% as inactive TMPA. Mescaline is deaminated as an unstable aldehyde and then into (inactive) TMPA via oxidization.

Is there any way to make mescaline more bioavailable?

I have been looking into this because wouldn't it be great if you could use 50% less. Think of all the cacti this would save!

I stumbled across Cyclodextrin being discussed as a possible way, but unless I am mistaken, you would have to compound the mescaline and Cyclodextrin into one for it to have any effect

 

[brokedownpalace10]

Well, there's an MAOI. But there seems to be controversy as to the Tyramine content in cactus if that is your Mescaline source. So, be careful if you do this and maybe some others might weigh in.

 

[pete666]

I have previously tried moclobemide and harmalas as MAO inhibitors, but I did not experience any positive or negative effects from either.

It's important to note that any drug combination increases the risk of toxicity. Mescaline is relatively non-toxic when used alone, but combining it with other substances poses unpredictable health risks.

 

[CactusRyan]

I have previously tried moclobemide and harmalas as MAO inhibitors, but I did not experience any positive or negative effects from either.

It's important to note that any drug combination increases the risk of toxicity. Mescaline is relatively non-toxic when used alone, but combining it with other substances poses unpredictable health risks.

I think I saw a previous thread from you about this combo of MAOI + mescaline. I am on a microdosing kick with mescaline and I would not want to take an MAOI every time I microdose. MAOI's on their own can be problematic with a lot of people experiencing light headedness, dizziness, and weird vision from using MAOI's frequently -- yes, even reversible maois like rue and caapi. Combined with mescaline is prob safe at most doses but I would vastly prefer not worrying about experiencing a hypertensive episode while dosing....regardless of how probable.

Do you think MAOI's color the trip in a 'better' way or a 'different' way?

Also how do you think adding MAOI's within the context of microdisng mescaline would work, if you have any experience in this area?

 

[pete666]

I think I saw a previous thread from you about this combo of MAOI + mescaline. I am on a microdosing kick with mescaline and I would not want to take an MAOI every time I microdose. MAOI's on their own can be problematic with a lot of people experiencing light headedness, dizziness, and weird vision from using MAOI's frequently -- yes, even reversible maois like rue and caapi. Combined with mescaline is prob safe at most doses but I would vastly prefer not worrying about experiencing a hypertensive episode while dosing....regardless of how probable.

Do you think MAOI's color the trip in a 'better' way or a 'different' way?

Also how do you think adding MAOI's within the context of microdisng mescaline would work, if you have any experience in this area?

I used quite low doses of harmalas, just to enhance the effects of mescaline. I didn’t go to the higher psychedelic harmala dosage levels where it might color the experience. Moclobemide doesn’t have these psychedelic effects, so it’s not supposed to color the experience. It really didn’t work the same way as with DMT, where the coloring is obvious even with lower doses.

I don’t have any experience with microdosing mescaline, so I can’t say. Personally, I would stay on the safe side and avoid mixing it, even with very low doses.

 

[shroombee]

I've used Liftmode THH to potentiate mescaline. I haven't run enough experiments to make a strong recommendation, but it's worth looking into. Please report back if you try it.

 

[_Trip_]

Iirc correctly, there's literature that points to the idea that DAO inhibition may increase mescalines potency much like maoi does for dmt etc, but maoi will not based on the targeted receptors it interacts with.

 

[CactusRyan]

Iirc correctly, there's literature that points to the idea that DAO inhibition may increase mescalines potency much like maoi does for dmt etc, but maoi will not based on the targeted receptors it interacts with.

That would mean that aspirin or naproxen could help mescaline bioavailability? I have to look more into this

 

[_Trip_]

Both those are cox inhibitors, not sure how much binding affinity it has on DAO inhibition.
DAOs roles in mescaline breakdown is still controversial however.

I'd look more at PEA (phenethylamine) or maybe some antihistamines like cimetidine which shows dao inhibition. some antihistamine could show more promise (potentially). Daoi's are a bit understudied.

 

[dreamer042]

I'm a big fan of the combination of harmalas + mescaline, but it's a synergistic effect, not really a potentiation effect. RIMA's like harmalas and Moclobemide inhibit MAO-A which metabolizes tryptamines. What you'd want to look at for true potentiation are MAO-B inhibitors as they metabolize phenethylamines, this is where tyramine becomes a concern however. I wouldn't advise taking MAO-B inhibitors with cactus, but it could be a potential avenue of (careful) exploration with pure mescaline.

 

[CactusRyan]

I'm a big fan of the combination of harmalas + mescaline, but it's a synergistic effect, not really a potentiation effect. RIMA's like harmalas and Moclobemide inhibit MAO-A which metabolizes tryptamines. What you'd want to look at for true potentiation are MAO-B inhibitors as they metabolize phenethylamines, this is where tyramine becomes a concern however. I wouldn't advise taking MAO-B inhibitors with cactus, but it could be a potential avenue of (careful) exploration with pure mescaline.

do you notice you need less mescaline when you take an MAOI with it

 

[🌺🔥🫧]

Short on time but, I was just oogling around the topic with chatGPT and found this below. I used adderall instead of mescaline for my questions simply because I assume the research is extremely elaborate for adderall. Should be the same though right? Both amphetamines or something like that


~ChatGPT~

“An alkaline diet can significantly impact Adderall excretion because urine pH plays a key role in how the drug is eliminated. Here’s a detailed explanation:





Impact of Alkaline Diet on Adderall Excretion


1. Adderall is a Weak Base


• In acidic urine (low pH), Adderall remains ionized, which prevents it from being reabsorbed in the kidneys. This results in faster elimination.


• In alkaline urine (high pH), Adderall is less ionized and more easily reabsorbed into the bloodstream. This slows down excretion and can increase the drug’s duration of action.


2. Magnitude of Effect


• Research indicates that when urine is alkaline (pH ~7-8), Adderall elimination can slow significantly, increasing its half-life. For instance:


• In acidic urine (pH ~5), up to 70% of Adderall can be excreted unchanged within 24 hours.


• In alkaline urine, only a small percentage of the drug is excreted, as most is reabsorbed and metabolized.


3. Diet’s Role in Altering Urine pH


• An alkaline diet—rich in fruits, vegetables, and low in acidic foods like meat, dairy, and caffeine—can shift urine pH closer to neutral or slightly alkaline (pH 6.5-8).


• Foods with strong alkalizing effects include spinach, kale, cucumber, and melons.


• Drinking plenty of water can also help stabilize urine pH, but avoid excessive citrus (like orange juice), which can acidify urine.





Expected Effects of Alkaline Diet


• Increased bioavailability: More of the drug stays in the bloodstream.


• Prolonged effects: Slower excretion may lead to a longer duration of therapeutic effects or side effects.


• Enhanced potency: Less of the drug is lost through urine, which might make the same dose feel stronger.





Caution


• Altering urine pH too much can have unintended consequences (e.g., metabolic alkalosis or interactions with other medications).


• If you are on Adderall and considering dietary changes to affect its metabolism, consult with a healthcare provider to ensure safety and effectiveness.




FYI, and this is Fire(me) texting now but ChatGPT, an alkaline (or shamanic/spiritual) diet will also just, make you more sensitive to adrenalines in general which boosts your sensitivity, which means you don’t need to take as much.

I’m curious to see whether you all follow up on this train of thought to verify that its true or to what extent.

Also, I think the art of consuming stimulants with MAO-Inhibitors could be explored. In the psychedelic as well as medical community it’s generally viewed as ‘dangerous’, but let’s get into the details of that!


Thanks for the Interesting question! I wanted to weigh in with that musing. It’s not a concrete answer I’m sorry! Had limited time gtg now

 

[doubledog]

I think caffeine potentiates mescaline quite well, but unpleasant downside was ( in my case) heavy and strange tiredness afterwards.
It was 50 mg caffeine with 200mg mescaline, my intention was to eat another 200mg dose of mescaline hour later, but this never happened. Both me and my friend were surprised by the strenght of a relatively small dose, but I will not repeat it due to side effects.

 

[Transform]

There was also maybe some hint that mescaline benzoate may be more bioavailable in a thread about 2 years ago. It could be that @Hyper Turtle reported on this but my recollection is foggy. If no-one else locates the link, I'll find a spare moment to dig it up.

I don't think that was ever confirmed, and it could be another of those things that has variation depending on the individual.

File under "maybe".

 

[dreamer042]

do you notice you need less mescaline when you take an MAOI with it

Nope still need the full dose, it's synergistic, not potentiating. Also keep in mind the difference in duration if you try this combination, the harmalas will wear off after 6 hours or so, while the cacti keeps going strong. I haven't experimented with redosing the harmalas orally, but some changa at the tail end after the harmalas have worn off has been quite enjoyable.

The only thing I've found to reliably increase the power of the cactus at lower doses is a good fast beforehand.

 

[Transform]

I think caffeine potentiates mescaline quite well, but unpleasant downside was ( in my case) heavy and strange tiredness afterwards.
It was 50 mg caffeine with 200mg mescaline, my intention was to eat another 200mg dose of mescaline hour later, but this never happened. Both me and my friend were surprised by the strenght of a relatively small dose, but I will not repeat it due to side effects.

Do you have any recollections about the duration of this experience and its phases? My thinking was that if the caffeine increased the rate of mescaline absorption as it is known to do with other substances, the peak concentration at central serotonin receptors would come sooner and be larger than with a more spread out dose. The slower it gets absorbed, the more time there is for the dose to get metabolised and inactivated without it reaching the target receptors.

This would, to a certain extent, tie in with @dreamer042's comment about fasting.

 

[doubledog]

Most prominent difference was quicker onset of the effect, within 90 minutes mescaline was almost in full effect, not the typical gradual increasing to reach the peak. It really felt like the peak of the experience came sooner and it was higher.
There was also an increased stimulation, but only for the time period common for caffeine for me (4 hours). I should state that I am very familiar with these caffeine pills.

 

[Transform]

Most prominent difference was quicker onset of the effect, within 90 minutes mescaline was almost in full effect, not the typical gradual increasing to reach the peak. It really felt like the peak of the experience came sooner and it was higher.
There was also an increased stimulation, but only for the time period common for caffeine for me (4 hours). I should state that I am very familiar with these caffeine pills.

Thanks, that really sounds like there was a pharmacodynamic effect through enhanced absorption, maybe compounded by the psychostimulant effect of the caffeine. To what extent would you say the peak effects aligned with the caffeine stimulation? And what was the duration of the mescaline effect overall, especially in comparison with similar-sized doses?

 

[Animistic]

I've also experienced potentiation of mescaline with caffeine. I found fairly small dose of cactus tea left in a fridge when I was moving out for the first time and took it, I'd had a coffee that morning which is unusual for me and woah, here I was thinking it would probably be imperceptible but it was pretty strong for how much tea I drank. It was a bit too stimmy for me, kinda manic, but I can be like that with coffee anyways.

 

[doubledog]

Thanks, that really sounds like there was a pharmacodynamic effect through enhanced absorption, maybe compounded by the psychostimulant effect of the caffeine. To what extent would you say the peak effects aligned with the caffeine stimulation? And what was the duration of the mescaline effect overall, especially in comparison with similar-sized

The peak effects were definitely aligned with caffeine stimulation, overall the experience has been shorter than it would be just with mescaline and during last hours I felt quite unpleasant and unusual tiredness ( but still was able to enjoy lingering effects of mescaline).
I am very sensitive to all substances, but also my hard-headed friend experienced increased effects, except the tiredness.

My conclusion here is that caffeine speeds up come up of mescaline, colours the experience slightly, but not significantly and shorten the duration.
Next time I am going to use low dose of gin&tonic to help with mescaline absorption.