Is this yield normal?

[Istubar]

Hi nexians!

At the time I'm working on my own extraction, but I think that the yield is a little bit poor. I'm using 1L water, 50g MHRB, 50g NaOH, 50ml heptane.

In the first pull I did not pre-evaporate, I put it into the fridge and that was all. After pouring the solvent and let it dry for a couple of days, the harvest gave me 40mg (0.8%)

In the second pull I did the same, except that instead of scratching to do the harvest, I've filtered it using a vacuum filter, but I wasted all the pull because it "fused" with the paper. After that there was nothing to scratch. At least the amount was nearly the same, not too much.

The third pull is coming. This time I pre-evaporate a little (the solvent changed from a clear color to a yellow one). The crystals are like on the first extraction, too tiny, and they are not too much. The only difference is that this time they are not white, they are more yellow. I will scratch it tomorrow and I will compare the weight.

Am I doing something wrong or do you think that this yield is normal? Maybe this amount is caused by the solvent or the MHRB?

Cheers! :thumb_up:

 

[Psyren]

imo you used way to much water and to much solvent.

 

[endlessness]

You dont 'lose' dmt if it melts into the paper, just use warm naphtha to pick up the dmt, and freeze it again or evap it in pyrex dish.

As for "is this yield normal" question, you just said the yield of your first pull so it's not like you have an exact number to know anyways. If youre using good chemicals and good mimosa and follow the teks correctly, all will be good, you can be sure

oh and, dont forget to check the FAQ for extraction tips and troubleshooting, like this and other questions

 

[Istubar]

F*ck... too late, I threw the filter to the garbage when it got dry and there was nothing to scratch But I've learnt for the next time.

The third pull gave me 0.1g (0.2% of 50g of MHRB) compared to the 0.040g (0.08% of 50g of MHRB) of the first pull. After this results, seems that is very important to pre-evaporate the solvent before putting it into the freezer because it will give you more.

This time the crystals are totally yellow and more waxy in comparison with the first pull (clear white and not waxy). Interesting but a little bit weird. I did an evaporation test to see if the solvent leaves any trace, and it was good, nearly nothing. I don't understand why it turned yellow, is this normal?. Maybe due to this, the amount is the same ~40mg, but the higher density of the new waxy crystals made 0.1g on the scale (by eye I can't notice any difference of the final amount, it seems to me the same).

Uhm! Maybe the small yield was caused due to stirring and not shaking the mixture, or by letting it rest too much time. I will try in the next pull to shake it hard before making the decantation, and do all the process at higher temperatures (I was doing it at room temperature).

Sorry about my horrible english, and thank you for your patience endlesness

 

[Istubar]

By the way, in order to prevent oxyde, Do you think that is not a good idea to use a hairdryer to help during the evaporation? Maybe due to this the crystals of the third extraction went yellow and waxy.

 

[The Day Tripper]

By the way, in order to prevent oxyde, Do you think that is not a good idea to use a hairdryer to help during the evaporation? Maybe due to this the crystals of the third extraction went yellow and waxy.

You used a hairdryer to evap heptane?

IMHO thats a very dangerous and bad idea. Not only will it cause oxidation of your spice, but it presents a risk of fire and explosion. If you want to speed up the evap using heat, use a hot water bath, away from the burner used to heat up the water. As well, if your going to use forced air to speed up the evap time, use a small computer fan, or small desk fan. Don't use a hair dryer that will suck heptane fumes up and blow them across a red hot ceramic heat element, thats just a fire waiting to happen.

Next time, use less water, put your water/lye/bark container in a hot water bath when pulling with heptane, and evap the heptane until its cloudy at room temp before freeze precipitating. As well, if you can, pour off the heptane after freezing, and dry the crystals in the container you used in your freeze precipitation. Filtering with paper filters never really worked well for me, and usually the crystals are stuck to the sides of the glass and you can pour off your heptane without any crystals going with it so long as you do it right after pulling it out of the freezer.

 

[Electric Kool-Aid]

F*ck... too late, I threw the filter to the garbage when it got dry and there was nothing to scratch

like endlessness said. just add naphtha to the filter and then precip the naphtha after in a glass tray. you are looking at a dry filter with dmt trapped in there because it is dry. add naphtha to it and get the dmt out! never throw anything away until you are sure you have gotten everything out!

happy extractions!

 

[Istubar]

IMHO thats a very dangerous and bad idea. Not only will it cause oxidation of your spice, but it presents a risk of fire and explosion. If you want to speed up the evap using heat, use a hot water bath, away from the burner used to heat up the water. As well, if your going to use forced air to speed up the evap time, use a small computer fan, or small desk fan. Don't use a hair dryer that will suck heptane fumes up and blow them across a red hot ceramic heat element, thats just a fire waiting to happen.

Next time, use less water, put your water/lye/bark container in a hot water bath when pulling with heptane, and evap the heptane until its cloudy at room temp before freeze precipitating. As well, if you can, pour off the heptane after freezing, and dry the crystals in the container you used in your freeze precipitation. Filtering with paper filters never really worked well for me, and usually the crystals are stuck to the sides of the glass and you can pour off your heptane without any crystals going with it so long as you do it right after pulling it out of the freezer.

Yes, I did that because I don't have a fan and the heptane takes a lot of time to evap by itself. But I did this in the most secured enviroment I could create (all windows opened, kitchen exctractor on, wearing a mask with gas filters, and no source of heat nearby that can start a fire. Anyway, there was no more than 40-50ml in the container). The process was putting the container floating in a pot full of hot water (not boiling), and I apply some gusts of hot air, giving some time to cool down between each gust (I didn't apply a constant gust for obvious reasons).

I've tried too to use the hairdryer to accelerate the drying of the crystals after pouring off the heptane, but some of the crystals melted into the remaining drops of heptane, so probably I lost a small quantity with this.

Anyway by one side or another, apart the risk of fire, seems that use a hairdryer is not a good idea because it will cause oxidation of the DMT. Am I right?

And I think that I won't use paper filters anymore.

Thank you all!

 

[Istubar]

:surprised !!

I've realized right now about something.

If the yellow waxy thing is DMT-oxide, I've mixed it in the zip bag in which I keep the other white crystals.

I was thinking on doing a sodium carbonate wash and re-X with the heptane after doing all the pulls, but I'm not sure about the possibility of doing this with DMT-oxide. Maybe I can spend some minutes separating it manually, otherwise I don't have Zinc dust and I cannot buy it here. If I need an acid to retrieve it to freebase, I only have vinegar.

What should I do?

Typical problems of essay-error methodology...

And one more thing. I've read a lot of things to prevent DMT oxide, but I'm a little bit confused about some points. Heat+air=oxide, that's clear, but heat only? I mean, which temperature it's recommended to shake (or stir) the basified water mith MHRB? Room temperature, warm, hot or boiling water? Which would give a better yield? The same thing with the solvent. When it's added into the mixture, is there any recommended temperature for the solvent?

As always, thank you one more time!

 

[Psyren]

The longer you let the naoh and RB mix sit, the more yellow your pulls are gonna be. I work fast. I knock my pulls out asap.

Mix distilled water & naoh.. wait 20 min
add powdered bark and shake well for 25 min.

By this point my mason jars are still warm, i add solvent. (i never use hot water baths!)

I continue to shake and let layers separate. repeat 3x
( The only time i ever got emulsions is when i used to much water 15ml per gram of RB is to much imo)

When i syphon off solvent its crystal clear, but if i blow on it, it becomes very milky (jackpot!)

i think my next extraction im going to take pics and make a tek

 

[Istubar]

The longer you let the naoh and RB mix sit, the more yellow your pulls are gonna be. I work fast. I knock my pulls out asap.

Are you sure of this? I did all the steps to create DMT-oxide... blowing hot air with the hairdryer to pre-evap, let it resting for days, not doing the upside-down trick in the freezer, adding the MHRB to hot water... I need to change my way of working.

Do you think that I will be able to turn the DMT-oxide to freebase using vinegar?

Thanks mate!

 

[Psyren]

ive never converted n-oxide to freebase but according to this zinc is needed.
DMT N-Oxide to Freebase DMT - DMT-Nexus Wiki

how long had your mix been setting when you got to your 3rd 4th pull?

 

[Psyren]

The longer you let the naoh and RB mix sit, the more yellow your pulls are gonna be. I work fast. I knock my pulls out asap.

Are you sure of this? I did all the steps to create DMT-oxide... blowing hot air with the hairdryer to pre-evap, let it resting for days, not doing the upside-down trick in the freezer, adding the MHRB to hot water

Thanks mate!

Doing those things dont create n-oxide as far as i knew. I have all my pulls done within hours of mixing the naoh and mhrb. Longer than that and i pull to much other crap or if i apply to much heat to the soup/naptha mix. Use less solvent and you wont need to pre-evap.

 

[Istubar]

how long had your mix been setting when you got to your 3rd 4th pull?

1st more than 72h (best results)
2nd nearly 48h (no idea, wasted)
3rd more tan 96h (worst results)

4th paused until ending of june, sadly I'm too busy

I have another 50g of MHRB and a second container, I will try this time to do it faster and use 750ml of water instead of 1000ml, but I cannot do it right now.

 

[cyantific]

i think my next extraction im going to take pics and make a tek

Hey Psyren, I've enjoyed your posts and was wondering if you would post a quick outline of your process. Even without photos, a general step by step would be really cool.... and helpful.

 

[Psyren]

i think my next extraction im going to take pics and make a tek

Hey Psyren, I've enjoyed your posts and was wondering if you would post a quick outline of your process. Even without photos, a general step by step would be really cool.... and helpful.

What i follow is a mix of different teks and info. Ive completed 6 (1 kilo) extractions following this and 3 extractions following other teks whos yields were less than desirable. I like following this way because the results have always been the same.. Nice white spice, yields of at least 1.5% and im able to complete a kilo extraction in a few hours (aside from the freeze precep.)

--I get 1 kilo of powdered bark. A couple gallons of distilled water, couple cans of vmp naphtha , food grade sodium hydroxide, IPA, and a 12 pack of 1 quart mason jars. (prefer bottle neck and not the wide mouth)

--Mix 80g of NaOh into 750ml distilled water per quart jar. shake well and vent. wait about 20 mins for it to cool a bit. If you work fast the heat reaction will keep things warm through out your pulls.

--add 80 grams of powdered rootbark
(i used to use 100g but thats a bit to much for a quart sized jar, i also used to use big 5 gallon glass jugs like in your avatar but found that doing smaller batches did yield more than doing giant batches)

--Shake your mix well every 5 minutes for 20-25 minutes.
(with the high ph of the water and the fact the rootbark is powder this step really doesn't take long. idk why people let it sit for hours. longer you let it sit the more yellow your solvent will become, the more yellow and gooey your spice will be)

--There should now be just enough room in the jar for 100ml of naphtha and a little extra room left over so you can shake it up well.

--I dont use 100ml tho, maybe half that. Id rather the solvent be as saturated w/ dmt as possible and have to do more pulls.

--Shake and roll the jars. i usually go 5-10 minutes, pause let it separate, go again 3x.
(Following all this ive never had emulsions from shaking the solvent with the soup. The only time ive gotten emulsions is when i followed earlier teks stating you need 15ml water per gram of rootbark.)

--Syphon solvent layer (naphtha should be clear, getting a little more yellow with later pulls) and i usually combine all pulls. Then into the freezer in a pyrex pan (easier to scrape crystals later) freeze for 6-12 hours, pour solvent off, then put pan back into the feezer or fridge upside down for 30-60min.

--Then take out the dish and sit it in front of a box fan with a cheese cloth or some kind of filter on top of the pyrex dish. (couple hours, chopping it up every now and then)

--Once its dry your done but ill re-dissolve it in just enough warm IPA plus a little more. and then put it back in the pyrex pan, back in front of the box fan. let it all evap, itll take a few hours. this step makes it a little more yellow but way more crystally and seems to sharpen the melting point. me and my friends really seem to prefer it.

following this ive never really needed to do washes or rex imo. but if you wanted to purify or grow large crystals this is a good quick tek to get a good amount of material to work with.

its late lol but off the top of my head i think ive covered everything i do, let me know if you have any questions.

 

[cyantific]

Thanks Psyren, that's a nice writeup. Hope you don't mind a few Qs.

add 80 grams of powdered rootbark (i used to use 100g but thats a bit to much for a quart sized jar, i also used to use big 5 gallon glass jugs like in your avatar but found that doing smaller batches did yield more than doing giant batches)

So you extract the full kilo, (960 grams) just broken up into 12 qt jars?

Mix 80g of NaOh into 750ml distilled water per quart jar.

If local water is very soft, do you think distilled is necessary?

Shake and roll the jars. i usually go 5-10 minutes, pause let it separate, go again 3x.

So you do 3 pulls per quart jar ?

Once its dry your done but ill re-dissolve it in just enough warm IPA plus a little more. and then put it back in the pyrex pan

Do you separate the IPA from the crystals, do they precipitate out?

Thanks again!
-Istubar I apologize for hijacking your thread!

 

[Psyren]

So you extract the full kilo, (960 grams) just broken up into 12 qt jars?
Ya, smaller batches work better. 80 grams is just about right for a quart jar.

If local water is very soft, do you think distilled is necessary?
distilled is so cheap and it will be cleaner.

So you do 3 pulls per quart jar ?
shake and let solvent separate 3x, pull solvent, repeat. total of 3 pulls. I usually combine all pulls but you could freeze precep them separate. The first will be the whitest and then get progressively more discolored.

Do you separate the IPA from the crystals, do they precipitate out?

No your gonna take your spice saturated IPA and pour it back into your pyrex pan. Put a cheese cloth or filter over the pan and put it in front of box fan. Your gonna let it sit until all the IPA evaporates(chopping and mixing every now and then), you be left with your spice.
This only takes a few hours and does NOT stink up the house the way evaping naphtha does.

 

[cyantific]

Psyren, do you heat your naptha before adding it?

Can you elaborate how you manage the extraction of all 12 jars... Can this be done by one person?

 

[Istubar]

Istubar I apologize for hijacking your thread!

No problem dude, I can learn something new too :thumb_up: