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'it finds you' vs 'sharing is caring'

weirdoigo

Esteemed member
I'm curious if anyone has personal morals about this or has received any guidelines from the other side with respect to this.

My initial feeling, after the profoundness of the breakthrough experience, is that I feel terribly selfish not offering this to others, despite how extremely rare (yet nevertheless still cheaper than a happy meal) the spice is where I live, leading me to want to horde it all for myself. It seems like if only more people could take it, how amazing our world would become, so how dare I use it all for myself when some people haven't even tried it once, haven't even had a glimpse, never mind being absolutely floored by beauty and activity beyond their wildest imagination.

But the counterargument is that some people aren't ready for it, some will get sick, some will be shut out, some will have a bad trip, etc., that it will find them when the time is right, that it finding its way to me isn't necessarily its way of finding its way to them. that maybe what I received was supposed to be for me, and what they need will come to them without my involvement in good time. And I worry that maybe I would make a bad choice, someone who is eager but perhaps will have a bad trip on it (at least, if there's a moral/educational dimension to these things), and I'm just not really supposed to facilitate that.

how do you decide?
and have you had any extradimensional input on the subject?
 
I think that's a common experience. I had the same thoughts initially when I tried mushrooms and LSD. In my opinion, there is a balance to be found.

As you say, offering it to everyone and anyone risks involving people that aren't ready to handle such an experience, particularly if it's offered too enthusiastically and without properly warning about the depth and dangers involved in the experience (here I'm talking about the psychedelic experience in general). It also can cause troubles for you, as many people won't be understanding and may even be shocked. Worst case scenario, someone could end up getting the police involved.

On the other hand, you, me, and most people found about it because other people shared their experiences, be it in person, online, in books... So without sharing, it can be impossible for the experience to "find" many people who would benefit greatly from it and are very much ready.

I suggest considering it on a case per case basis. If you think someone could be interested and benefit from it, test the waters and if their predisposition towards these topics is open, you can share your experiences and ideas. I try to not be pushy or "incite" the person, I just share my experience and thoughts about it. If they are interested and ask for my help for having an experience I will gladly help, but I avoid offering it. To other people you will probably find better to act as if you didn't even know about psychedelics. That's my personal perspective on this.
 
for me it's not so much 'offering it to everyone and anyone', as just, ya know...
my best friend, who is insanely courageous and adventurous in this world, but hesitant about the DMT world,
or a friend who is deeply into meditation and teaching and gently doing your best in this world but who has no real experience with the transcendent,
or my mom, who lost her mom years ago and even went to a purported 'medium' once hoping that stuff could possibly be real,
or a friend who has chronic health issues and suicidal ideation (for me, ket and stuff is all good and well, but it's no miracle cure for treatment-resistant depression like the articles suggest, whereas DMT is like 'oh actually all that stuff about higher powers and benevolent plans is entirely factual, so...maybe chill out a bit, try to make the most of it'),
definitely not strangers or just anybody.
definitely not for profit or disrespectful motives.
definitely not pushy (even if for no other reason than I really don't want to run out again lol), just very enthusiastic...but even people who've done a little bit of mushrooms really can't quite imagine how strange it gets, so it's just so hard to talk to anyone about it.
 
I totally agree with previous answers.

This is a debate I've lived through with my personal experiences. I think that first reaction is perfectly natural, most people who tried spice, myself included underwent it, however it lacks wisdom and experience. With great powers come great responsibilities, and many times during my journeys I felt that spice wields an amount of power akin to, if not greater than the nuke, albeit a very different kind of power, but immense nonetheless.

First and foremost, the unfortunate truth is that not everyone is built for it, and in the right place in their life to have such an experience, and as you said, we are all different, and it has a different way of finding each and every one of us. That is valid for all psychedelics, but especially spice. The world would indeed be a much better place, but it will take time, and trying to rush things is more likely to cause setbacks than anything. Think if someone flips out in public, or has a negative experience and reports it to authorities, or it triggers some weird actions or underlying psychological issues due to them not being ready for or misinterpreting the teachings. It can also have physiological side effects that are benign to healthy individuals, but could have repercussions on people who suffer from underlying conditions such as possibly cardiovascular issues, epilepsy etc. Anything bad that happens gives it a bad reputation, and makes it more likely that people won't want to try it, or even that it gets more heavily regulated. You just have to look at the 60s-70s era when psychedelics became mainstream and as a result had a strange effect on society, and got more heavily repressed. Psychedelics are by all definition magic, but they are not a miracle cure, they require work, discipline, commitment, interpretation and integration to have a positive impact.

On the other hand, keeping it to yourself would indeed be rather selfish, and it wouldn't help reaching our goal of them being recognized and accepted, and having a positive impact on our world, so open dialogue is very important.

One of the big issue is that our society hasn't incorporated psychoactive substances and the worlds they open our eyes up to as part of its culture, we currently only have the vague and pejorative blanket term "drugs" and all the taboo around the mere subject of altering consciousness, because of all the damages caused by some synthetic drugs developed between the mid 19th and mid 20th century, and also because our way of perceiving and analyzing the world is not really compatible with some of the insight psychedelics bring us. With the exception of the few substances we have integrated into our culture such as alcohol, tobacco and sugar purely recreatively, coffee purely productively, and medication, but unfortunately for multiple reasons, contemporary medicine mostly deals with symptoms rather than their roots. Little by little cannabis is also being normalized both recreationally and therapeutically. Note that all of these substances' effects are rather mild, and in no way are they enlightening or put in question our worldview. The arrival of cannabis is a great thing for us, especially the fact that it is viewed therapeutically, because that forces science to inquire further into these substances, cannabis truly is the gateway drug. All of us who have tried psychedelics know that they do not fit the definition of drugs, but people would have to experience it for themselves to understand that.

The stigma on drugs is so great that even "drug users" themselves are subject to it, and understandably, because we don't want to open the floodgates to things like crack, meth and phentanyl, what we need is a new way of categorizing them, a way that separates the constructive from the destructive, what has an effect on the mind, and what has an effect on the body, and what kind of effect. Intent and way of using should also be accounted for. Currently due to the blanket term, I see a lot of people not wanting to try psychedelics because they see all drugs as destructive, some people even who pride themselves on the fact that they do not consume drugs to a point where their sobriety is an integral part of their personality, these people often hypocritically consume coffee, sugar, alcohol and tobacco on a daily basis, but that is besides the point. I also see party/drug people who tried MDMA, Ketamine, Cocaine, maybe some pharmaceuticals, and who want to try psychedelics purely recreationally, and to add more and stronger drugs to their roster, people who pride themselves on the fact that they do take drugs, also to a point where it becomes an integral part of their personality. I see people using psychedelics at raves and festivals and not getting any positive results from it. I also see people who misinterpret the teachings and view themselves as some sorts of new age gurus, who think the weight of the world rests on their shoulders, and that they alone can open the world's eyes to the magical wonders of psychedelia, this is yet one more trap of the ego. I think all this is due to the lack of culture around it, but there is only one correct way to approach psychedelics: for self-improvement. Whether it be spiritual or psychological, we must do it with the intention of improving our perception, ourselves, and our interactions with the world around us.

The ecological impact must also be seriously taken into consideration, if from one day to the next everyone's interest into a certain plant grows disproportionally to the supply, we could very well harvest those plants to extinction, which not only would private us and future generation from those marvels, but would also have a domino effect on the concerned ecosystems. So the supply must also grow along with the demand.

Furthermore, those experiences and your relationship with the spice are entirely personal, and focusing too much on others can have an impact on your own intent and outcomes, so even sharing about it must be done in a wise and balanced manner.

Therefore our main focus to spread it positively must be to build it into our culture, and the best way to do that is through experimenting, developing our approach and methods, and open dialogue and advocacy. Actually introducing people to it can be done wisely, but it first requires to develop a very intimate relationship with the substance, and letting it dictate how to do it. I believe it also requires to develop an intimate relationship with the person we want to introduce it to, and treat it on a case by case basis. In other words, it is not a process that can be industrialized. We are better off flying under the radar until we reach the point where it is integrated into our culture.

I too once fell eager to share it with the world, I had introduced a couple friends to it, and it went marvelously, they had enlightening experiences that triggered profound and immense positive changes in them, then I witnessed a friend of mine who wasn't ready have a bad trip on mushrooms, and even though it had profoundly positive long-term effects on him, it caused him significant existential anguish and distress for a few months to a year. Today he is grateful for this experience, but at the time he suffered from it. I also once had a friend who insisted I should introduce another friend to spice, but I didn't know this friend well enough, misjudged his readiness, and thinking only pre-flight anxiety had to be overcome, I took on a role of convincing him, which definitely isn't the way. You asked about insight on it from the other side, well after failing to convince him, I went to the other side for guidance and had a tough experience. I was struck by lightning and had the profound feeling that the gods were angry at me, that the forces at play are much greater than myself, and that I shouldn't get involved in certain things, that I should let the universe do its own job, and only be at its service on its own terms. This not only prompted me to stop trying to introduce people to it, but also to stop talking about it and even to fear doing it for some time. I have since gotten back to a more balanced and wise approach, both for my own use, as well as in my way of sharing it with others, but it took some time and effort. I now feel that the best way is to talk about it with people who you deem enough open-minded, to tell them about the positive impact it had on you, but also warn them of the risks, implications, and the sheer depth and complexity of this quest, and if they inquire about it from their own initiative and out of genuine and pure interest, and not mere curiosity, to guide them through the process of making it happen on their own. I would recommend against supplying in any way, shape or form, except for the already initiated. I also strongly recommend against buying it, as whoever sells spice hasn't understood the first thing about it, and cannot be trusted.
 
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The only people I even want to discuss DMT with are the ones who are already searching..seeking it out..interested etc.

I think it’s sort of trendy for influencers in the psychedelic media space, on podcasts etc…to claim that the medicine just found them, rather than it being some thing they were actively seeking. I never really understood why the seeker was viewed in a more negative light.

DMT for sure did not find me. I spent a lot of time obsessed with it, seeking it out. I don’t trust that other people who aren’t actually seeking it out(or at least stuff adjacent) will take any of it seriously.

In the past I figured more people could really use this stuff. I think the average person could benefit more from a little mdma and a dance party vs blasting off on DMT these days.

Psilocybin and DMT are almost too much…too deep. I think it’s good if people have already made the decision themselves to go searching.
 
The only people I even want to discuss DMT with are the ones who are already searching..seeking it out..interested etc.

I think it’s sort of trendy for influencers in the psychedelic media space, on podcasts etc…to claim that the medicine just found them, rather than it being some thing they were actively seeking. I never really understood why the seeker was viewed in a more negative light.

DMT for sure did not find me. I spent a lot of time obsessed with it, seeking it out. I don’t trust that other people who aren’t actually seeking it out(or at least stuff adjacent) will take any of it seriously.

In the past I figured more people could really use this stuff. I think the average person could benefit more from a little mdma and a dance party vs blasting off on DMT these days.

Psilocybin and DMT are almost too much…too deep. I think it’s good if people have already made the decision themselves to go searching.
I indeed agree that spice and psychedelics in general becoming a trendy topic on medias is making me cringe, that surely ought to attract the wrong crowd. I see a lot of people interested in them, but for the wrong reasons, and with the wrong intentions. Most indeed aren't ready for a full blown journey, and that is why we must be very balanced in how we share it if we want to keep spreading positively.

I myself also spent a lot of time searching it, yet before that, I had spent a lot of time researching psychoactive substances of all sorts, with a special focus on anything hallucinogenic, and hadn't heard of it once. One day, all of a sudden I stumbled on the existence of aya, researched deeper, decided to brew my own, and then while researching deeper and finding out about the potential food interactions, I found out about spice and chose to go this route instead.

Not only that, but it took a certain character to decide to go through all the way with it, make all the research, and with no help to gather all the elements, go through with the entire procedure, and then go through with testing the final result. Most people I know wouldn't have done it, and this is a good thing, it acts as a filter of intent, dedication and discipline. The whole process that leads up to the experience is both a selection and a mental preparation, and it should remain this way.

I think "it finding you" doesn't mean you stumble on it while strolling in the park and fall, but it means it wasn't brought to you by someone else. It means it wasn't offered to you out of the blue, it took some conscious effort to find it, but you didn't either have to get out of your way to find it either. You might have known about it for some time, but only at some point did a door open up for you to access it. I always had this experience with all psychedelics. Then comes a point where the door remains open, but you just feel when it is time, which confirms that not only does it find you, but it also chooses when it is time.

This is why I believe in things happening organically, because that is how it worked for me. The few times I saw it work differently, it didn't go as smoothly as it did for me.
 
there is only one correct way to approach psychedelics: for self-improvement. Whether it be spiritual or psychological, we must do it with the intention of improving our perception, ourselves, and our interactions with the world around us.
100%

The ecological impact must also be seriously taken into consideration, if from one day to the next everyone's interest into a certain plant grows disproportionally to the supply, we could very well harvest those plants to extinction, which not only would private us and future generation from those marvels, but would also have a domino effect on the concerned ecosystems. So the supply must also grow along with the demand.

in the light of stories about bringing back the dire wolf and mammoths and the like, I'd like to believe that if society recognized the value of a plant we currently have, they would ensure its genome at least is fully documented so it can be restored if lost to the tragedy of the commons. I find it a bit unlikely, though. The polar bears are near extinction because they do no good for us, whereas chickens which we slaughter on the order of some 70 billion per year have no hope of extinction.

I also strongly recommend against buying it, as whoever sells spice hasn't understood the first thing about it, and cannot be trusted.

why's that?
where I live, it's extremely hard to come by. if I had a healthy savings account and could acquire any quantity of any item I wanted, so that I had enough of it to share freely with others if occasion arose, I would seemingly be unable to. I'm very happy to share what little I have freely if it feels right. like you, I feel like I can only gift it, that it's too sacred to expect anything for. but I know people in my community risk punishment for this. they risk their money hoping the bark gets through biosecurity (years ago I got an interesting letter from the government instead of a package of bark...). people more clever than me learned the teks and invested in the materials needed, and took a lot of time out of their day to bring this stuff about. I think it's fair they should receive something for allowing me to have the product of their efforts with no effort on my part when they could easily choose instead someone they know and like instead of a stranger, or choose not to make more at all and use their time on other things.
why do you think they can't be trusted?
 
I think the average person could benefit more from a little mdma and a dance party vs blasting off on DMT these days.

Psilocybin and DMT are almost too much…too deep.
I guess I feel like the fear of god could actually be a good thing to course correct the path we're on.

I used to scoff at the idea of people devoted to religion and salvation, to 'the next life', as if they may as well have been running around a dark forest looking for bigfoot. but now I see that this life really is only a small part of what we need to consider very seriously.

maybe that's not what everybody needs, but I know a lot of people are the same as I was, making terrible decisions because they are perfectly rational within the limits of a very incomplete perception of reality.
 
Not only that, but it took a certain character to decide to go through all the way with it, make all the research, and with no help to gather all the elements, go through with the entire procedure, and then go through with testing the final result. Most people I know wouldn't have done it, and this is a good thing, it acts as a filter of intent, dedication and discipline. The whole process that leads up to the experience is both a selection and a mental preparation, and it should remain this way.
true.
that's kinda where my head's at with Syrian Rue.
I have always had anxiety issues, I don't do a lot of risk-taking. I like to have a good idea that someone else has done something and that it's safe (someone says 300 nangs caused numbness for days, good to know, I was worried if 20 was too many. someone rolled on a gram of MD at a festival, good to know, I wasn't sure if doing a few points would be ok. etc., I'm not taking a mystery squirt of acid from the dropper that might be 1 or 10 doses). I'm not used to being the first person I know to try something out and hope it goes well, so when I hear about the hours of nausea and the like, it reminds me of a foolish accident in the past where I got violently sick from a toxin I could so easily have not ingested if I'd been a bit more diligent, and I have to second guess whether or not it's worth taking the chance at all.
The spice has been incredibly welcoming and comfortable, but the visits are so short I feel like I can't learn anything like others claim to, so I figure I simply have to learn everything I can about the options for extension and trust that it'll work out if it's supposed to. (had I a million dollars, I'd be in a comfy hospital room across the world in Colorado being IV dripped a stable dose, so that I don't even have to hold off on a bit of cheese and chorizo or MDMA the same day when I want to venture an extended exploration). Where I am, my only option is the MAOI.
It has definitely been worth it, and now I have no preflight jitters for the MAOI any more than I do for the spice, my only hesitation is on the dose, even though I've yet to feel any side-effects from the ones I've done so far. I've had what I call breakthroughs, but I've yet to have the ego death or the think you did too much and died for real experiences, and I don't know how much wiggle room there is between what I'm doing and where they happen. and I don't know if it's better to find that out without the MAOI or with it. But there's nothing else I'm so curious about that if it finally kills me I'd say it was worth it.
 
This isn't for everyone. It finds you if you need it, but it won't find those who don't. It's simple. Life shows that sharing isn't always caring, most ordinary people don't need these kinds of experiences because they're too weak to handle it.
Focus on yourself. Getting involved in other people's lives usually doesn't work. If someone wants to change their life, they'll do it.
 
Are we sharing DMT because we want to give that gift to others? Or are we doing it because we are terrified about what we have discovered and desire others to be terrified with us?
 
Life's a risk. So is smoalking DMT.

DMT thrust it's way into my life by proxy of friends. So it found me and sharing is caring in my case.

Part of the issue around the concern of whether to share, if people are ready and if they can handle it is by virtue of the obsession with the degree of experience known as a breakthrough. For some reason, people feel they must go that far and that it's less meaningful or meaningless to do anything less. This is a binary way of thinking that isn't necessarily true. There's plenty going on in shallower waters, much of which is easier to bring back and apply to life. That said, there's nothing wrong with helping people step into the space through process and titrating up.

One love
 
For some reason, people feel they must go that far and that it's less meaningful or meaningless to do anything less. This is a binary way of thinking that isn't necessarily true. There's plenty going on in shallower waters, much of which is easier to bring back and apply to life.
That's a very good point. Sub-breakthrough experiences are much more psychological and applicable to our day-to-day life, imo.
I like the oral route because you could get the whole gamut of what dmt & harmalas have to offer in one session.

When it comes to sharing the medicine, I've become much more reserved over the years.
This medicine finds its own people, and we're just a conduit to it.
Not everyone is ready for it, and we should follow our intuition / heart when sharing.
🙏
 
That's a very good point. Sub-breakthrough experiences are much more psychological and applicable to our day-to-day life, imo.
I like the oral route because you could get the whole gamut of what dmt & harmalas have to offer in one session.

When it comes to sharing the medicine, I've become much more reserved over the years.
This medicine finds its own people, and we're just a conduit to it.
Not everyone is ready for it, and we should follow our intuition / heart when sharing.
🙏
I find the bredth and plurality of experience so somewhat increase in lower doses, but that may just be me.

In hyperspace, it's usually one overwhelming, hard to remember experience. I've some at lower levels where im in hyperspace, and here, and somewhere else, all at the same time.

One love
 
most ordinary people don't need these kinds of experiences because they're too weak to handle it.
I'm sorry, but that statement is preposterous because you've simply stated it as an absolute. I am a living example of quite the opposite: the first time I took a psychedelic, I was at my weakest and most emotionally vulnerable point in my entire life, having almost taken my own life. I was (and to some extent still am) utterly ordinary. Yet this experience completely turned my life around and led me to a place of compassion, gratitude, and love for all things and people in my life. It made me a better person in every way imaginable, and it did it with a magnitude that is impossible to depict via human language.

My suggestion to you would be for you to explore the idea of the gradient of human experience and try to be a little more open-minded and humble in your beliefs. I guess that is something that comes to many people who use psychedelics by virtue of time and sufficient amount of quality, mindful, open-hearted experiences. Why you don't appear to have reached this is none of my business. But when you come here stating these incredibly binary opinions as the absolute truth, I'm not only compelled, but obliged to say something about it.
 
I find the bredth and plurality of experience so somewhat increase in lower doses, but that may just be me.

In hyperspace, it's usually one overwhelming, hard to remember experience. I've some at lower levels where im in hyperspace, and here, and somewhere else, all at the same time.

One love
Overwhelming is the right word for sure. It's awesome to experience something like breakthrough, but what could one bring back?
I have a number of experiences that are fun to remember, but they were too out there…
If we are using medicine for healing, low doses are the way to go, imo. And you can always try to push through if the situation allows 🤯

the first time I took a psychedelic, I was at my weakest and most emotionally vulnerable point in my entire life, having almost taken my own life
Same here. I was suicidal, to say the least.
Ordinary people need healing too, and somehow medicine comes into their lives.
There are no absolutes in reality. We are analog beings in an analog world, no matter what techno culture trying to impose on us.
 
why's that?
where I live, it's extremely hard to come by. if I had a healthy savings account and could acquire any quantity of any item I wanted, so that I had enough of it to share freely with others if occasion arose, I would seemingly be unable to. I'm very happy to share what little I have freely if it feels right. like you, I feel like I can only gift it, that it's too sacred to expect anything for. but I know people in my community risk punishment for this. they risk their money hoping the bark gets through biosecurity (years ago I got an interesting letter from the government instead of a package of bark...). people more clever than me learned the teks and invested in the materials needed, and took a lot of time out of their day to bring this stuff about. I think it's fair they should receive something for allowing me to have the product of their efforts with no effort on my part when they could easily choose instead someone they know and like instead of a stranger, or choose not to make more at all and use their time on other things.
why do you think they can't be trusted?
Well because wanting to sell it either comes from an eagerness to share it, from a desire to make money, or both. I think both are wrong reasons, if you must share, it shall only be done with someone you are very close with and know enough about to know it might be a good thing for them, and it that is the case, the reason is greater than both yourself and money. Also if someone sells it, it is much more likely to attract attention from authorities, which cannot be a good thing. If ordering bark locally isn't possible, and your situation allows it, consider growing your own.
I find the bredth and plurality of experience so somewhat increase in lower doses, but that may just be me.

In hyperspace, it's usually one overwhelming, hard to remember experience. I've some at lower levels where im in hyperspace, and here, and somewhere else, all at the same time.

One love
In my experience, spice is not very well suited for sub-breakthrough due to the short duration and dynamics, except maybe with an e-cig, or mixed with harmala, but something like mushrooms are much better suited for it. Hyperspace takes practice to reach a point where you know how not to get distracted, what to pay attention to, and mastery to know how to bring it back, but it is in my experience much more transformative, if you are dedicated enough. Low doses when combined with something else like mushrooms to "throttle up" makes sense, but in my experience stand alone spice is best to go all the way.
 
In my experience, spice is not very well suited for sub-breakthrough due to the short duration and dynamics, except maybe with an e-cig, or mixed with harmala, but something like mushrooms are much better suited for it. Hyperspace takes practice to reach a point where you know how not to get distracted, what to pay attention to, and mastery to know how to bring it back, but it is in my experience much more transformative, if you are dedicated enough. Low doses when combined with something else like mushrooms to "throttle up" makes sense, but in my experience stand alone spice is best to go all the way.
I dislike low doses of mushrooms. The come-up is so tough for me, so it's better to go with a mid-to-high dose to make it worth the effort.
I once had a friend who used changa to boost a mushroom trip. He created a whole castle of an ego for himself and stopped with any serious
medicine work. Every tool can be misused, and DMT flash could lead to more problems. Be Present in your explorations & healing.
🙏
 
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