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Jorkest's D-Limonene Bufotenine Extraction TEK
- Thread starter Jorkest
- Start date
69ron
Rising Star
Jorkest said:ahh thats some good info..perhaps SWIM will try taking some of his bufo and try that out..perhaps it will make it a bit cleaner...SWIM also noticed that when the d-limonene boils..it starts to turn a little yellow...SWIM cant remember exactly but he thinks it happened after it started to boil..perhaps the d-limonene starts to break down at some temp??
and it sure is an amazing solvent...nothing better! its so surprising that orange oil would be such a wonderful carrier for all these different and wonderful alkaloids! bufotenine..jungle spice..5-meo-dmt..dmt..mescaline(and desert spice...or mescaline friends)....what about LSA?? what about psilocin and psilocybin?? maybe more!? its also so awesome that it can so easily purify bufotenine...that is one of its biggest awesomest traits..there is nothing this solvent cant do!
SWIM's friends are much happier with d-limonene...they dont think hes killing himself with those nasty solvent fumes...its surprising though..that after boiling some d-limonene how STRONG that orange scent is..SWIM kinda feels like it actually gets him a little high...
SWIM noticed that the d-limonene started getting darker as soon as it started to boil. Maybe the bufotenine is breaking down and not the d-limonene?
His d-limonene is "food grade" which is apparently not distilled. The distilled kind is called "high purity" d-limonene. So some impurities in it might break down by boiling it.
Bufotenine's melting point is 146–147 C. D-limonene boils at 176 C, and so maybe that's causing break down of some of the bufotenine. His bufotenine was about 99% pure, however, there were brown spots in the beaker used to boil the bufotenine in the d-limonene. He decanted it into another beaker after boiling it. The other beaker also has some brown matter in it.
The brown matter in the beaker used to boil it was burnt and not soluble in acetone or 91% IPA. It was also not soluble in water. It was somewhat soluble in vinegar and smelled like oranges when SWIM finally dissolved it in the vinegar. Maybe it's one of the impurities in food grade d-limonene that's burning when the solvent is boiled?
At any rate, the bufotenine melted completely when the d-limonene was simmering before it came to a boil. At that time the d-limonene didn't look so dark. That's probably the time to decant it, and not when it's boiling.
Xylene did not have this behavior. SWIM could re-boil his bufotenine in xylene many times to purify it more and more and no dark material ever formed in it. Either the bufotenine is burning in the boiling d-limonene or impurities in the "food grade" d-limonene are burning.
The d-limonene precipitation is now done. There are no more precipitates in it, they've all settled down. SWIM poured off the d-limonene. The precipitates are much darker in color and there are brown spots here and there. He dissolved them in acetone. The brown material under the bufotenine and on the sides of the beaker was soluble in the acetone. He put it in a food dehydrator to evaporate. It's currently evaporating. No crystals are forming. It doesn't look good.
SpasticSpaz
Rising Star
Hate to nag, but really want an answer to me and Dagger's question.
What purpose does the FASA serve? Could it be replaced with a defat or an acid extraction?
SWIM'd rather not go through the trouble of drying acetone if he could replace it with two or three defats with warm naptha/heptane.
Also, an experiment that might be worth carrying out would be to reflux some limonene without bufo and see ifthe brown crap/discoloration appears. And if it does does, see if it falls out of the limonene or remains in solution.
What purpose does the FASA serve? Could it be replaced with a defat or an acid extraction?
SWIM'd rather not go through the trouble of drying acetone if he could replace it with two or three defats with warm naptha/heptane.
Also, an experiment that might be worth carrying out would be to reflux some limonene without bufo and see ifthe brown crap/discoloration appears. And if it does does, see if it falls out of the limonene or remains in solution.
the purpose of the FASA is to separate the plant fats and oils..SWIM has tried defatting the seeds and it uses a LOT of solvent..thats why he keeps going back to the FASA..
69ron SWIM found that after the d-limonene boil..when poured off..the resulting precipitates did NOT look very nice..when scraped up they were very dark..but he thinks this is just from being wet with d-limonene...after they dry...the resulting powder is a light tan..and is very dense and crystalline in nature..crunchy..but not crystals..perhaps SWIM will try doing some d-limonene and bufo experiments and see if he can get it to clean up more...but as of now..it doesnt produce nasty side effects..but perhaps we can figure out how to help them make it cleaner...SWIM is sure that its possible..it just might take some tweeking
69ron SWIM found that after the d-limonene boil..when poured off..the resulting precipitates did NOT look very nice..when scraped up they were very dark..but he thinks this is just from being wet with d-limonene...after they dry...the resulting powder is a light tan..and is very dense and crystalline in nature..crunchy..but not crystals..perhaps SWIM will try doing some d-limonene and bufo experiments and see if he can get it to clean up more...but as of now..it doesnt produce nasty side effects..but perhaps we can figure out how to help them make it cleaner...SWIM is sure that its possible..it just might take some tweeking
SWIM did a d-limonene boil..he added the 500mg bufotenine to 25ml d-limonene at room temp and slowly brought it up until it was boiling..he poured it off and let it cool..took about 10 minutes..give or take..he then poured off the clear d-limonene..and stuck the wet..slimy looking bufotenine into the food dehydrator(good idea 69ron..works like a charm)
anyway..what was left after the d-limonene boil was some black powder..it dried fast...it was maybe 25mg..maybe 50
he then scraped up the bufotenine that dried in the dehydrator..and its less dark than the beginning bufotenine..less gray even..so the second d-limonene boil removed more crap...its a finer powder than before...seems a bit more crystalline..and it smells a lot less like d-limonene than the beginning bufotenine..its almost odorless..he may try doing another boil and see if he can clean it up even more...
he also did a few other tests...he added 250mg bufotenine to 25ml d-limonene and then added 50ml of MEK(he started with less..but the bufotenine wasnt getting picked up by it) so then he boiled off the MEK and is waiting for the d-limonene to cool..its cloudy and precipitates are starting to form..hes trying to grow crystals in the d-limonene...
another test he is doing is he put 150mg bufotenine in something like 25ml of MEK..and added 50ml of d-limonene..he was hoping that the more d-limonene he added would cause the bufotenine to drop..but no such luck..so hes going to let the MEK slowly evaporate and see if crystals will form..
anyway..what was left after the d-limonene boil was some black powder..it dried fast...it was maybe 25mg..maybe 50
he then scraped up the bufotenine that dried in the dehydrator..and its less dark than the beginning bufotenine..less gray even..so the second d-limonene boil removed more crap...its a finer powder than before...seems a bit more crystalline..and it smells a lot less like d-limonene than the beginning bufotenine..its almost odorless..he may try doing another boil and see if he can clean it up even more...
he also did a few other tests...he added 250mg bufotenine to 25ml d-limonene and then added 50ml of MEK(he started with less..but the bufotenine wasnt getting picked up by it) so then he boiled off the MEK and is waiting for the d-limonene to cool..its cloudy and precipitates are starting to form..hes trying to grow crystals in the d-limonene...
another test he is doing is he put 150mg bufotenine in something like 25ml of MEK..and added 50ml of d-limonene..he was hoping that the more d-limonene he added would cause the bufotenine to drop..but no such luck..so hes going to let the MEK slowly evaporate and see if crystals will form..
SWIM just found something out by accident...SWIM had a bit of cool d-limonene that had a bit of cloudiness to it..and he is doing another d-limonene boil..trying to purify some more bufo...and when he poured in the cool d-limonene into the hot d-limonene...a nice white precipitation cloud formed..SWIM is gonna think on a way to see if he can get some clean crystals this way..not sure how its gonna work...but he will think of something
he just found out something else..hes thinking of pouring some hot d-limonene that is saturated in bufotenine over a dome that has ice or something really cold under it..hes thinking that as the d-limonene hits the cold surface..it will drop the bufo out really fast..and hes thinking it might come out cleaner..because as he poured off some other d-limonene saturated in bufo...a few drops escaped and landed on a slightly warped stainless steal surface..and for some reason the little bit of bufo in there..looks a bit cleaner..but hes not sure..so he will have to test it a bit...
SWIM found out that he can get cleaner bufo if he lets the majority drop first...and then pour it off onto something else and let it cool more...it seems like the first wave of precipitation is whats giving it that tan brown color...he needs to figure out how he did it now
SWIM will see if that happens 69ron...it seems like the d-limonene may be reacting with some impurities at higher temps..perhaps the light simmer is all that needs to be done..because it seems the hotter it gets..the darker the resulting bufo powder
OR maybe the hot d-limonene starts reacting with the bufotenine...perhaps lower temps will work better...SWIM will try this out...it seems like hes starting to figure out whats happening..but he says he will continue to work on it for awhile
OR maybe the hot d-limonene starts reacting with the bufotenine...perhaps lower temps will work better...SWIM will try this out...it seems like hes starting to figure out whats happening..but he says he will continue to work on it for awhile
SpasticSpaz
Rising Star
How soluble in water is whatever form of Bufotenine that is present in the seeds?
What about the solubility in water of various Bufo salts (acetate, citrate, phosphate, fumurate)?
Just spitballing...
What about the solubility in water of various Bufo salts (acetate, citrate, phosphate, fumurate)?
Just spitballing...
Jorkest said:
Ah, so is it possible that a hot water bath would be sufficient?
SWIM had a go at the Tek with 25g of seeds. It went fine, but he was clumsy when freebasing after FASA and added too much water to his salts and sodium carbonate (~100ml)
He thought there wasn't much harm done and that it will only take longer for it to dry, but the next day he noticed that his solution turned black. He dried it in the oven at 125 C and ended up with a black tar like goo with the sodium carbonate sitting in it. Acetone wash only retreived light brown fats.
He's only guessing but could it be that the bufotenine has oxidised? He doesn't think that it was because he dried it in the oven as he's done that after freebasing from the seeds (always under 147 C) and the FASA was working fine after that, so the acetone has retreived alkaloids. It might be that the bufotenine freebase oxidises if diluted in water for long.
If it does it might be a good idea to dry it in the oven when using water with the freebased bufotenin to minimise losses, but someone might be able to shed more light on what happened.
He thought there wasn't much harm done and that it will only take longer for it to dry, but the next day he noticed that his solution turned black. He dried it in the oven at 125 C and ended up with a black tar like goo with the sodium carbonate sitting in it. Acetone wash only retreived light brown fats.
He's only guessing but could it be that the bufotenine has oxidised? He doesn't think that it was because he dried it in the oven as he's done that after freebasing from the seeds (always under 147 C) and the FASA was working fine after that, so the acetone has retreived alkaloids. It might be that the bufotenine freebase oxidises if diluted in water for long.
If it does it might be a good idea to dry it in the oven when using water with the freebased bufotenin to minimise losses, but someone might be able to shed more light on what happened.
wait...SWIY used sodium bicarbonate? sodium bicarb isnt really a good enough base for this TEK...you need to use sodium CARBONATE...but you can make sodium carbonate out of sodium bicarbonate by putting it in your oven at 450 for an hour or two...it will make it much more basic...