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Jorkest's D-Limonene Bufotenine Extraction TEK

Migrated topic.
I'm in the process of cleaning up my 2nd Bufo extract & it is a pain in the ass to get it really, really clean!!

I nixed the first extraction I did, as it seemed like it was getting more & more gooey & oily as I went along.
I tried boiling what I had in Zylene & things just seemed to go to hell from there. I think I had way too much left over orange oil in it when I went for the Zylene boil...
So I chalked that one up to a learning experience & started over, better prepared for the next one.

Now this one is going along well, but good grief those toxins are some tricky bastards to try & get out, aren't they!!!

I have had one little accident that seemed to help remove a large amount of the oily toxins & my extract has been much drier since.
Here is what happened:
*I followed Jokerst's D-Limonene tek, doing just one D-Limo boil.
*Like a jerk, I got a bit impatient (I know better than this by now...) with the D-Limo evaporating/Bufo drying so slowly & I put it in the oven, with the oven door cracked open a bit, at what I thought was 150F degrees to help speed things up.
I don't know if I bumped the dial, or just set it wrong in the first place, but when I went back, 45 min. later, to take the dish out, the oven temp was set to 350f degrees!! I took the dish out & although the D-Limo was dry, the Bufo stuck to the glass dish was pitch black!!
I was pissed!!
I figured with the oil in the D-Limo, plus being on glass, must have added enough to the temp to burn everything (I was incorrect, it was only hot enough to burn off a lot of the sticky toxins!!).

*So in hopes to retrieve something from the burn, I scraped up the burnt-black, somewhat hard substance of the the glass dish, dissolved it in acetone & poured it through a cotton filter stuffed in the tip of a funnel, to filter out the burnt shit. I did this 3 more times, until there were no more black solids left floating in the acetone. The last filtering was dripped into a large glass dish to evaporate the acetone.
*When I scraped it up, I had some very fine tan powder!! I was stoked & so happy that I clearly did not burn up any of the Bufo!!
*I could tell there was still some of the burnt stuff in there, so I did another D-Limo boil & what was scraped up after evap was cleaner than anything I had seen so far, but was still not pure crystals.
*I have now done 2 more D-Limo boils & have a nice tan extract, but it seems the more D-Limo boils you do, the more the orange oil builds up.
*So I'm thinking of doing the FASA step one more time, to salt out the Bufo & remove the orange oils. Then re-basify with sodium carbonate & then through the cotton filter again until any solids are gone.

I'm hoping that what dries out from that should be a very clean Bufo crystal.
Key word there being; hoping!!

I will then test it & report back as to whether or not toasting, after the D-Limo boil removed a large amount of other toxins, or not.
I remember reading about the natives toasting the seeds before grinding them into snuff. Then toasting again, after adding lime to basify.
Seems, at least visually, to have burned away a lot of the crap!!
I'll let you know after FASA removing the left over orange oils.

I also have a new batch of seeds coming from Maya, their products are always of the highest quality, so far I've been using FV's seeds and they seem like good quality but I've not tried any other vendors seeds to comparison them to.
I want to try toasting the D-Limo cleaned Bufo extract again, to see if I can get the same result. If it wokrs the same way again I'll write up & post how it was done, in steps.
I plan to re-toast 1/2 of the next extract & compare a final product the has been toasted & re-cleaned, to one that has just been D-limo cleaned.


WS
 
nice dude...that sounds very promising..and also a good idea on possibly getting rid of the orange oil..i love those happy accidents..
 
Yeah, I love it when an accident turns into something that works!!

It's funny, I was so pissed off at myself for trying to hurry, I was also out of acetone at the time so I was unable to continue & see if I lost everything.
It was rush hour, on a Fri, but I still ran to the ace-hard-ware a couple of blocks from my house to get some more & another happy-accident happened, I found that they sell 100% lye again!! The only place I found locally was a Lowes on the opposite side of the city (2hr drv both ways...) & I've heard they have stopped carrying it.
So I found a new source 2 blocks away instead, nice!!
I am definitely interested in the non-lye teks, but I still get my best result with an A/B using Lye.:cry:

Anyway I'm gonna do the FASA on my Bufo extract tonight to get the orange oil out etc..., I'll let you know how it goes!!

do people roast the seeds before in this extraction? maybe this could work roasting earlier on?
I do, before grinding them. 200f degrees, for around 45 minutes after they stop popping & jumping.

BTW, the Acetone I bought at ace has water in it, am I correct in remembering that I could stir Epsom salts into it, let it sit for a day or two & filter out the water-soaked salt, to "dry" this acetone?
If so, what ratio?


Cheers!

WS
 
endlessness, SWIM roasted his seeds before the water extraction tek I posted for him in the main bufotenine extraction thread, and got very good results.
 
so swims tryin that brasilian dudes method. when the acidified brown gook was added to the isopropyl alchohol and sodium carbonate (instead of calcium hydroxide) added a precipitate formed. waiting 6 hours like the directions said. for only 13 seeds being used there appears to be alot of precipitate. well c how the acetone goes.
 
I did the FASA on the D-Limo cleaned Bufo extract & it precipitated perfectly!!

Unfortunately, I made a couple of mistakes, first I used way too much acetone. Although I was able to evaporate enough of the FASAtone for the Bufo to salt out of it in a nice white/tan precipitate in the bottom of the beaker, but I tried to filter it out with my Buchner funnel and the Bufo-fumerate seemed to just disappear into the filter!!

I was once again pissed at myself for not taking the time to decant off the extra acetone & THEN try to filter out the Bufo-fumerate!

I poured the FASAtone into a large glass dish to evaporate in knowing the bufo had to still be in there, the damn filter paper is not that thick!!
It did evaporate back out, but of course, the oil is still in there too.


So do you guys think I'm better off dissolving the stuff that evaped in a small amount of acetone to try & separate the Bufo-Fumerate from the oil?
Or, am I'm better off just re-basifying the stuff that evaped and running it through a cotton ball filter again?

Help...

WS
 
memo said:
Also after dissolving in IPA the resultant product is gooey. Grain alcohol yielded the driest product.



The last photo is of the Freebase Bufotenin after being dissolved into grain alcohol and evaped.

Is grain alcohol just bio-ethanol.

Are ethanol and bio-ethanol the same thing?
 
Well, I opted to try basifying it & filtering, it's drying now.

When I mixed the Sodium Carbonate into my Bufo-accident, it bubbled a little.?.?.?

I'm pretty new to the whole FASA reaction...could you clear up the Bufo(or DMT)/acetone/Fumaric acid ratio for me?

Like if I have .500mg of Bufo, how much clean acetone would be smart to dissolve the bufo in, to how much FASA for the correct reaction?

WS
 
uhh...well..you would need around 170mg of fumaric acid (i guess) based on the same dmt to fumaric acid ratio...and i dont really know how much clean acetone to put in there...maybe...25ml?

so that would be 25ml of clean acetone and 25ml of FASA
 
Jorkest said:
uhh...well..you would need around 170mg of fumaric acid (i guess) based on the same dmt to fumaric acid ratio...and i dont really know how much clean acetone to put in there...maybe...25ml?

so that would be 25ml of clean acetone and 25ml of FASA

So your saying to dissolve 170mg of fumaric acid in 25ml of Acetone to make the FASA?
Then dissolve the Bufo into 25ml of clean acetone?
pour the FASA into the Bufo-tone a little at a time, until no more precipitate?
Right?

Is there any standard ratio to normally go by?
In the begining of the D-Limo tek it says to add "1g of fumaric acid to 150ml of acetone", to make the FASA & "600ml of Acetone" to dissolve the bufo in. This is an earlier stage of course, but that is a considerable difference...

Oh Yeah, I used waaaaay too much acetone when trying to re-FASA my D-Limo cleaned bufo extract!!!

Got to go work for a while, we'll see where this goes later.

WS
 
yeah you pour the FASA into the bufotone until clouds stop appearing...stirring will help the reaction happen faster too..

and im not all that sure of any ratio...
 
soulfood asked:
"Is grain alcohol just bio-ethanol.

Are ethanol and bio-ethanol the same thing?"

What SWIM is using for grain alcohol/ethanol is Everclear (151 proof). So I guess that you could call this bio-ethanol, it's grain alcohol.

WS asked about the FASA method. What SWIM does is mix up FASA in a seperate container using dry acetone and Fumaric acid. He uses enough Fumaric acid that it doesn't all dissolve and there is extra sitting on the bottom of the container to insure that the acetone is saturated. He dissolves his freebase into another container of dry acetone, the amount of acetone isn't critical since you are not going to evap it. Use enough to totally dissolve the freebase 25-400ml. Then add a small amount of the FASA to the dry acetone/freebase mixture. The Fumarate will precipitate out. Decant the acetone off of the Fumarate and let it dry. Try adding more FASA to the remaining acetone/freebase mixture to see if any more Fumarate precipitates out.
 
and im not all that sure of any ratio...

right on.. play it by ear then8)

Right on Memo, then I did everything correctly, I just should have decanted the Acetone instead of using the vacuum filter to retrieve the precipitate.

Cheers, thanks for the help!!

WS
 
swims drying ipa/h2o/ whitish yellow precipitated bits.

smells like soapy dmt :) i thik swims onto something. an acetone wash away!! and if im not satisfied with that ill try a casa extraction on top of that. ill let you all know how it goes. so far this tek has been extremely easy (minus the fear of geting boiling HCl all over you)

swim didnt smell any acetone... scraped up a thin film of tan/white/red powder.
swim sais:
it smells lovely, actually it smells like the color of the smell of a dmt trip .. like this white creamy liquid marble jasmine magnolia that extends on forever

swim wants to know how long he should wait before he tries going for a big dose after he got threshold effects from a weaker extraction? is it 2 hours like the deemz?
 
swim:
"ok, so the stuff turned a darker color over the course of a few hours. bioassay was interesting, very nice bodyhigh, mild trippiness and a little distortion of objects at most. interesting state of mind and overall feel"
 
I have now re-basified my Bufo extraction & filtered it to remove the solids etc..., then evaped the acetone, scraped up the result & dried it.
Since the 2nd FASA conversion I did was a bust, the oils were not removed, so the extract was still dark...

Plus, it is safe to say that I lost a great deal of the alkaloid to either the filter paper, or by adding too much Sodium Carbonate when re-basifying. Like I mentioned before, when I added water to the pre-mixed Bufo-Fumerate/Sodium Carbonate powder, it bubbled a little. I figured that I (once again), used way too much SC for the conversion...
But I did retrieve about 1/3 of what I had before.:cry:

So for the sake of experimenting I did the FASA convr' again, getting the precipitate out correctly this time & the oils were successfully removed!!!
I now have to re-basified again & filter.
From the looks of the small amount Bufo-Fumarate I have here, this should be a pretty fucking clean freebase!!

For future reference, what kind of ratio of (fairly clean) Bufo extract-to-Sodium Carbonate would be "safe" for re-basifying?
Would calcium hydroxide work any better at this stage?
I had read somewhere to use 4-parts Bufo ext, to 1-part SC, but that produced the bubbling last time... And may have chem-burned off some of the goods. Or am I wrong in that theory?

Either way, I'm better prepared for the next attempt, I got a new batch of seeds from Maya in the mail yesterday.
Trial & error...

WS
 
Oh yeah!!
I've now got some very light tan, crystalline Bufotenine powder, that is 100% not sticky or amber colored at all!!! Cleaner than anything I've seen myself or in pics, except for those beautiful close ups 69ron posted of his pure clear/white crystals, with the tiny hints of orange & brown. Those where like art work!!
Wish I had a microscope so I could check out/take pics of the crystalline structure of my extractions.
My phone camera just doesn't cut the mustard!

It seems (at least visually) that doing a 2nd FASA conversion on the previously D-Limo cleaned Bufo extract, was definitely a small success!!!
I had a considerably large loss (3/4 of the yield!:cry: ) due to trying to use a vacuum filter to retrieve the Bufo-Fumarate the first time (the precipitate was not as solid as it appeared...) & lost a lot to the filter paper, or to excess sodium carbonate possibly chem-burning the Bufo-Fumarate while re-basifying it after the FASA conv'.

I extracted 25g of seeds, my unfortunate loss resulted in a yield of only .040mg.:cry:
Although, that is at least 2 good doses & I'll be starting with around 5-10mg to check it out, so if it's really pure there should be more than enough to bioassay & make sure I have what I think I have...

I'm gonna write up & post a new thread detailing the extra steps I took & some pics of the result.
I also have another 25g of seeds that I'm going to try & replicate my results with, after I take a little break!
I've been spending every free minute I've had for the last two weeks in the kitchen, boiling & evaporating & cleaning dishes & doing it all again & again...
I need a little time out of the lab!!
Plus, the solvents are starting to get too me, weeeeee....cough...cough...cough...

I also need to bioassay what I've got here to see if it really is the alkaloid I'm thinking it is, before trying this again...


Cheers!

WS
 
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