JP's "Rats and Cats" lesson transcribed to hyperspace experiences

[Nydex]

Hello friends,

Today I watched a Jordan Peterson video where he explains a very interesting aspect of rats' behavior when exposed to something terrifying. Here it is for anyone who hasn't seen it:
[YOUTUBE]

What struck me most is the parallel that this behavior has with our own behavior after a DMT experience. Just like the rat comes back to the place it witnessed that monstrosity that is a cat from its perspective, we come back to the hyperspace realm, even though the last time we broke through we emerged covered in sweat, shivering and crying out of fear, awe and sheer amazement.

According to JP, one of the reasons the rat comes back to the place it saw the cat is to investigate. To make sure the threat isn't becoming bigger and stronger. In a way, and driven by subconsciousness, the rat faces its fear and risks its life to understand what's happening.

Would it be reasonable to transcribe this occurence in our own experiences? Do we come back to the hyperspace realms to face our fears and increase our understanding while risking losing ourselves in the process?

Maybe it's not an adequate correlation, but it definitely crossed my mind and left a trail. I find it interesting how two vastly different organisms might be driven towards the same thing by the same force.

So much more to learn...

Be well, my fellow travelers. Spread the love.

 

[DmnStr8]

I can certainly see how rats fearing cats is analogous to humans fearing DMT. I can relate as I return over and over again even after a terrifying experience.

I am not sure that it goes completely hand and hand, I think our reasons for returning to the scene of the crime, so to speak, are much more complex than these rats.

I feel like any being that is placed into this reality of survival is going to have similar experiences from rat to lion to us. The idea of facing the fear is what is appealing to me in this instance. The rat just had to go back and check it out. It didn't want to sit there screaming in terror forever. It risked everything to investigate and face it's greatest fear! Gotta love that!

Enjoyed the video and line of thought!

 

[dragonrider]

Sounds a bit like PTSD.

 

[AmadeusD]

Somewhat surprised you didn't get a warning for posting JP....

 

[dragonrider]

Somewhat surprised you didn't get a warning for posting JP....

Sometimes he does make sense.

He's in all likelyhood not the greatest thinker of this time (i wouldn't know who IS btw), but he's definately not a complete idiot either.

Maybe he should try a little harder not to get caught up in all the controversy around his person.....and tidy his room.

 

[the_Architect]

I think in this case rats come back to the crime scene, cause it´s their territoty, the only place where they can get food, not a matter of choice really.

As for DMT, I think some people will try it once in their life and never again try it again... I even know some people that have seen indian deities and then said it´s a chemical thing, it´s just a drug, your head produces everything... there´s nothing else out there, etc.
Some other people told me: I don´t get it, yes I see some green people, but it´s not funny, it doesn´t make you feel better or stronger, I don´t see what the fuzz is about, I preffer coke.

So, as McKenna said, these are conscience expanding substances, if there´s no conscience in the first place, then there´s nothing to expand.

PD: I love JP, despite he´s not much into the psychedelic culture (officially), I think at least he is the kind of person willing to have a conversation, and not playing these identity politics. He´s having a public debate with Slavoj Zizek on april, that shall be interesting, I wonder about Slavoj condition regarding some paralysis in his face, I hope he looks normal for the ocasion, otherwise people who don´t know him might get a bad impression.

 

[dragonrider]

"Yes i see some green people, but it's not funny"

That is maybe the weirdest thing i've ever heard somebody say about DMT.

 

[FranLover]

Hi! The corelation is there but it has a reversal; mice and men always return to what is pleassurable. If anything on Earth is more pleasurable than dmt please let me know. To me DMT is the best feeling there can exist but I am willing to be wrong:roll: But its funny cause it reminds me of someone with PTSD. I am always shaking and terrified, I remember what I experienced and am shocked. I cant believe I survived that...Yes, I smoke dmt.

 

[dragonrider]

So i would say that PTSD is definately a very negative thing, although there does seem to be a rationality behind it: if you want to prevent something very bad from ever happening again, you have to know what exactly went wrong, and what you could have done to avoid it.

But i wonder if being "atracted to danger" (like watching scary movies, rollercoaster rides, skydiving, etc) is maybe the more positive side of this. A more controlled way of dealing with fear. And if it could maybe even help against PTSD.

Some people have these, in the eyes of most other people, realy weird fascinations. Like people who have a terrarium with venomous snakes for instance. Could it be that maybe they had an almost obsessive fear for snakes when they where a child, and that what they are actually doing is deliberately exposing themselves to it, in order to beat that fear and to grow as a person?

 

[Nydex]

Somewhat surprised you didn't get a warning for posting JP....

I don't see why that would be. I don't follow JP's life strictly - maybe I missed something important that would promote a warning for me because I referenced him?

Also the fact that I used part of a lecture of his as an example to take my point across doesn't necessarily mean I support him or share his beliefs. To assume that would be just ridiculous. He is a man that is willing to sit down and think on stuff before he says them, and also change his mind when presented with evidence that contradicts his beliefs. I always have respect for people like that.

That being said, can you summarize why I shouldn't post anything JP-related? I'm curious what makes him so bad in your eyes.

 

[dragonrider]

Somewhat surprised you didn't get a warning for posting JP....

I don't see why that would be. I don't follow JP's life strictly - maybe I missed something important that would promote a warning for me because I referenced him?

Also the fact that I used part of a lecture of his as an example to take my point across doesn't necessarily mean I support him or share his beliefs. To assume that would be just ridiculous. He is a man that is willing to sit down and think on stuff before he says them, and also change his mind when presented with evidence that contradicts his beliefs. I always have respect for people like that.

That being said, can you summarize why I shouldn't post anything JP-related? I'm curious what makes him so bad in your eyes.

I think it has something to do with that he is considered a controversial figure, by some people.

In the kind of heavily polarised times we are living, there seems to be a tendency by too many people, to always want to see almost everything in terms of the left versus the right, and to force people into picking a side.

I think that was what AD's remark was about.

Mr peterson himself does not realy seem to mind it though, as he said it himself: "i've found a way to monetize SJW's".

It would probably have been better if he didn't ofcourse, because all that political jazz is pretty boring compared to animal and human psychology.
But here at the DMT-nexus, i like to think, we see through all of the less interesting stuff.

 

[Mindlusion]

Somewhat surprised you didn't get a warning for posting JP....

I don't see why that would be. I don't follow JP's life strictly - maybe I missed something important that would promote a warning for me because I referenced him?

Also the fact that I used part of a lecture of his as an example to take my point across doesn't necessarily mean I support him or share his beliefs. To assume that would be just ridiculous. He is a man that is willing to sit down and think on stuff before he says them, and also change his mind when presented with evidence that contradicts his beliefs. I always have respect for people like that.

That being said, can you summarize why I shouldn't post anything JP-related? I'm curious what makes him so bad in your eyes.

I think it has something to do with that he is considered a controversial figure, by some people.

In the kind of heavily polarised times we are living, there seems to be a tendency by too many people, to always want to see almost everything in terms of the left versus the right, and to force people into picking a side.

I think that was what AD's remark was about.

Mr peterson himself does not realy seem to mind it though, as he said it himself: "i've found a way to monetize SJW's".

It would probably have been better if he didn't of course, because all that political jazz is pretty boring compared to animal and human psychology.
But here at the DMT-nexus, i like to think, we see through all of the less interesting stuff.

I thought it was a joke!
Come on guys, lets get real.
If anyone really feels they need to 'shield themselves' or others from something that might possibly upset, offend, or conflict with worldview, why in the world would you take DMT or psychedelics in the first place? :? :? :?

Next time you smoke DMT try to 'shield yourself' from the oncoming indomitable force of reality, you'll see just about how useful a strategy that is.

 

[dragonrider]

Somewhat surprised you didn't get a warning for posting JP....

I don't see why that would be. I don't follow JP's life strictly - maybe I missed something important that would promote a warning for me because I referenced him?

Also the fact that I used part of a lecture of his as an example to take my point across doesn't necessarily mean I support him or share his beliefs. To assume that would be just ridiculous. He is a man that is willing to sit down and think on stuff before he says them, and also change his mind when presented with evidence that contradicts his beliefs. I always have respect for people like that.

That being said, can you summarize why I shouldn't post anything JP-related? I'm curious what makes him so bad in your eyes.

I think it has something to do with that he is considered a controversial figure, by some people.

In the kind of heavily polarised times we are living, there seems to be a tendency by too many people, to always want to see almost everything in terms of the left versus the right, and to force people into picking a side.

I think that was what AD's remark was about.

Mr peterson himself does not realy seem to mind it though, as he said it himself: "i've found a way to monetize SJW's".

It would probably have been better if he didn't of course, because all that political jazz is pretty boring compared to animal and human psychology.
But here at the DMT-nexus, i like to think, we see through all of the less interesting stuff.

I thought it was a joke!
Come on guys, lets get real.
If anyone really feels they need to 'shield themselves' or others from something that might possibly upset, offend, or conflict with worldview, why in the world would you take DMT or psychedelics in the first place? :? :? :?

Next time you smoke DMT try to 'shield yourself' from the oncoming indomitable force of reality, you'll see just about how useful a strategy that is.

Who said anything about shielding themselves?

Let me speak for my own comment here, and not put words in other people's mouth, but i think i kind of clearly stated that i think all the controversy around JP is boring. And sad.

And the only thing about it that is relevant, is that it shows how deeply divided western society has become. Wich is why it is sad.

I also said that i believe that most people here are probably capable of seeing through the clickbait he and his friends as well as his enemies are throwing at us.

I don't know what it is that made him so controversial. Maybe i missed something. People seem to either love or hate him.

I personally think he's a pretty normal guy with some interesting but not realy worldshocking views on human psychology. And that if he would focus more on human and animal psychology, and less on creating a hype around his person, his views would probably be even more interesting.

 

[Nydex]

I don't know what it is that made him so controversial. Maybe i missed something. People seem to either love or hate him.

I personally think he's a pretty normal guy with some interesting but not realy worldshocking views on human psychology. And that if he would focus more on human and animal psychology, and less on creating a hype around his person, his views would probably be even more interesting.

Exactly the way I feel about it as well. He's just a dude that not only manifests extreme curiosity regarding the mystery that is the psyche, but also has a very specific way with words. This makes up for an interesting, often entertaining persona to watch and listen to.

I personally don't love or hate him. I just like to think about stuff like that, and draw parallels between them. I believe the key to unlimited knowledge is correlation.

The latter is perfectly depicted by one man, whose name is Howard P. Lovecraft. In the far 1928, he began his infamous "The Call of Cthulhu" with the following few sentences, which I will never forget:

The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far. The sciences, each straining in its own direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the deadly light into the peace and safety of a new dark age.

 

[AmadeusD]

Somewhat surprised you didn't get a warning for posting JP....

I don't see why that would be. I don't follow JP's life strictly - maybe I missed something important that would promote a warning for me because I referenced him?

Also the fact that I used part of a lecture of his as an example to take my point across doesn't necessarily mean I support him or share his beliefs. To assume that would be just ridiculous. He is a man that is willing to sit down and think on stuff before he says them, and also change his mind when presented with evidence that contradicts his beliefs. I always have respect for people like that.

That being said, can you summarize why I shouldn't post anything JP-related? I'm curious what makes him so bad in your eyes.

I'm a JP fan. Not a big one - im more interested in the effect he's having culturally through media etc.. That's actually more substantial to me and tells me more about hte world around me.

It was somewhat a humorous dig at a particular moderator whom i know to be a raging SJW of the "im not even talking to you" kind but tbh i actually don't think its unrealistic that they would act.

JP gets a massively bad rap in psychedelic societies (have a look at APS posting a clip of him about a month ago. Those comments are something else man...). I can genuinely see someone being warned or even removed for posting something JP-positive. A lot of people come to psychedelic spaces as a 'safe space' and to hide from things they don't like or find offensive. They don't want progress or data, they just want the feelies.
The whole 'burner' culture is centered around it basically.

Orgs. like Horizons and Chacruna are increasingly focussing on social justice and identity politics with no one able to engage with criticism. I don't like what im seeing, but its better to make fun than get upset.

 

[Nydex]

Somewhat surprised you didn't get a warning for posting JP....

I don't see why that would be. I don't follow JP's life strictly - maybe I missed something important that would promote a warning for me because I referenced him?

Also the fact that I used part of a lecture of his as an example to take my point across doesn't necessarily mean I support him or share his beliefs. To assume that would be just ridiculous. He is a man that is willing to sit down and think on stuff before he says them, and also change his mind when presented with evidence that contradicts his beliefs. I always have respect for people like that.

That being said, can you summarize why I shouldn't post anything JP-related? I'm curious what makes him so bad in your eyes.

A lot of people come to psychedelic spaces as a 'safe space' and to hide from things they don't like or find offensive. They don't want progress or data, they just want the feelies.
The whole 'burner' culture is centered around it basically.

Orgs. like Horizons and Chacruna are increasingly focussing on social justice and identity politics with no one able to engage with criticism. I don't like what im seeing, but its better to make fun than get upset.

This I couldn't agree more with. Now what you said earlier makes sense, thanks for clarifying. I haven't looked into it, and had no idea JP had such a bad reputation. What a pity...people can be so ignorant sometimes.