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Considerations with Regards to Attunement of Consciousness and Experience of Esoteric Phenomena
- Thread starter Voidmatrix
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I have this poster at home. When I opened the package with it for the first time, the picture was upside down. I felt that something was wrong and that they had printed it badly. When it hit me that I just needed to rotate it, all I felt was wonder and gratitude
@Varallo, I must admit that I feel like the odd one out in this place as a person who bases my practice on plants and not molecules. So I might not get much resonance if I elaborate on what I am talking about. Entities are an entirely different subject and I am not really interested in that domain. Plant spirits are a much more grounded, basic sphere of study and I hang out in that world. I would have (and have 
) gone in detail in this in the Ayahuasca forums, but here I will just be like a weird bird singing a foreign unintelligible song, I feel.
) gone in detail in this in the Ayahuasca forums, but here I will just be like a weird bird singing a foreign unintelligible song, I feel.
Panpsychic
Titanium Teammate
This is a truly bizarre statement with no basis. However it does indicate the type of lazy thinking and self perpetuating belief filters that prevent true enquiry and knowledge into these areas from being experientially verified, particularly among those who hold to materialist metaphysical belief systems.
I understand, in my head these concepts where the same, as you can see I have zero understanding nor experience with plant teachings. Anyway I completely respect your opinion.@Varallo, I must admit that I feel like the odd one out in this place as a person who bases my practice on plants and not molecules. So I might not get much resonance if I elaborate on what I am talking about. Entities are an entirely different subject and I am not really interested in that domain. Plant spirits are a much more grounded, basic sphere of study and I hang out in that world. I would have (and have
I think we should hash out what we mean by metaphysical here.
I usually mean it philosophically.
I think @Varallo may have meant it in terms of "metaphysical" systems of a more "mystical" or "spiritual" nature, ie, new age metaphysics.
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It's of course your decision what to talk about or not, but based on what I read here you're not the only one (although it is true that it's a minority). And also that other people don't share the same perspective doesn't mean they would be uninterested in it. I don't exactly share that perspective and yet I'd be interested in what you have to say about it
I'd like to second this. I don't always put the same words in the same ways to things, but I pay attention to what I call essences (things are always couched to appeal to the unknown), which is plant spirit in most respects when it pertains to entheogens. I however, don't know how to share my thoughts about it in a way that satisfies me, so I tend to spectate @dithyramb specifically with topics like these.It's of course your decision what to talk about or not, but based on what I read here you're not the only one (although it is true that it's a minority). And also that other people don't share the same perspective doesn't mean they would be uninterested in it. I don't exactly share that perspective and yet I'd be interested in what you have to say about it
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I’m not sure I’ve ever felt that an experience wasn’t real. For me, the issue isn’t whether something is real or not. There’s a clear difference between what I experience and feel versus what I know or accept as real. I consider my experiences real in the same way I consider my dreams real, as experiences. But I don’t treat my dreams as anything other than dreams, because nothing suggests another explanation. I distinguish between phenomenological realness and ontological realness. So, a very intense dream with overwhelming brightness is real as a phenomenon, but brightness isn’t a measure of reality. Ontologically, it isn’t real.
Then looking further than that I think ultimately reality is a construct of one’s self.
I think interaction is not always reciprocal, as in when I talk to myself it’s not someone else that is talking yet at the same time I feel it’s not me talking, don’t know if that makes sense.
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And not all interactions are the same either.
So could we also add in the sticky variable of the fact that so much of this is predicated on what we feel? Such that, some don't feel they're talking to themselves when interacting with entities.
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Ow that’s silly of me, and I can imagine how confusing this is, I think it’s us talking about metaphysics
.But as Void says in the context of the sentence I mean metaphysical ideas like energy healing, astrology and other pseudoscience. Il put an edit in there.
About entities, I'm also curious as to whether the difference in how frequently they are perceived by different people stems from differences in the experience itself (more or less predisposition towards that type of experience), in how experiences are interpreted, or both.
For example, I often see "beings", but to me they're usually just images, there is no feeling that they are anything more. I wonder if some people would attribute some kind of consciousness or presence as something more than an image to the same experience.
On the other hand, I have had a few experiences where I seemed to interact with external entities. So it could also be that those experiences are frequent for other people.
As an example, in my last experience I saw a kind of cylindrical beings with a bearded face doing a dance, and suddenly their masks dropped and a jester/trollface type of face appeared in its place. To me they were just images, but I've read reports of what seems to be a similar experience where they are referred to as external beings. I wonder if, for the people who often report those "external being" experiences, they are usually felt to be independent entities (as it's certainly possible to experience) or if they are considered to be independent based on pre-existing beliefs.
For example, I often see "beings", but to me they're usually just images, there is no feeling that they are anything more. I wonder if some people would attribute some kind of consciousness or presence as something more than an image to the same experience.
On the other hand, I have had a few experiences where I seemed to interact with external entities. So it could also be that those experiences are frequent for other people.
As an example, in my last experience I saw a kind of cylindrical beings with a bearded face doing a dance, and suddenly their masks dropped and a jester/trollface type of face appeared in its place. To me they were just images, but I've read reports of what seems to be a similar experience where they are referred to as external beings. I wonder if, for the people who often report those "external being" experiences, they are usually felt to be independent entities (as it's certainly possible to experience) or if they are considered to be independent based on pre-existing beliefs.
Sometimes entities are just too real to be figments of myself, at least my personal egoic self. I had a ceremony where some beings took over my body and did pranayamas for hours on end, while I just watched it happen. After the ceremony, I couldn't come down for months because my system became extremely sensitive. I read about it later on in yogic literature, but I never found the techniques they used. Then there are other beings that feel more like a program running in your energy body. I'd say there is a whole ecosystem there in the astral. If it's all a part of my mind, then I'm a part of it too, for sure.
To be clear, I wasn't that much wondering about whether they are real (in whatever way one defines it) or not, but about the nature of the experience itself. For example, what you report seems clearly an experience of something external from yourself, not just an image to which you have attributed "personhood" so to speak.
Are those experiences frequent for you (not necessarily that intense, but the unequivocal feeling that you are interacting with somebody else)?
@blig-blug, entity contact is much more a staple of smoked/vaporized DMT than oral brews. İt is part of the oral medicine phenomenology but it's not so central that it is a defining part of it as it is with smoked/vaporized. İn my thousands of oral experiences, I've had a handful of "entity contact" and they were at worst horrifyingly spooky, and at best an annoyance that needed to be dealt with. My practice is based on purifying, aligning with Source/Creator/God, and cultivating connection and unity. I don't do bungee jumping with the purpose of exploration. That said, I've had a lot more experience with animal and plant spirits in and around the ceremonies, the most amazing synchronicities, meaningful symbolisms, accompanied with visions or dreams. I definitely have some stories which I can tell people. These are also technically entity contact but not in the cliche way of smoking DMT and having a conversation with a hyperdimensional elf. But again, I feel like I am a different species speaking a foreign language, I don't know how to translate it all because it's not just some stories, it's an entire, "marginal" worldview. And how the * did I end up with this worldview is also very difficult to explain as no people or institutions that were involved in my life have anything to do with it.
Not really. I just provided the most stark example. I'm in the plant spirit camp, too
That could be related for sure, as I haven't explored vaporized DMT much, and never in depth. However it's not that infrequent to read experiences of encountering beings with oral brews either.
The most extreme one I had (with pharmahuasca) was not spooky or annoying. I was in a place with what appeared to be the spirits of the unborn, which were also something akin to angels. As you say, they didn't directly tell me anything, but it was clear that they were aware that I was there, and in the moment it seemed the most truly real beings I had seen in my life, more real than the people I see in normal awareness. I was one of them, too, and I was shown how I was aware of that while I was still a baby, with some "memories" of being in a stroller thinking about all that. I don't believe (now) that it was literally true, but it was such a shocking experience that I can't consider it just some random product of my mind.
It's looking like it may be about oral brews vs. vaporized DMT then, as the three of us that have said so far to not experience it often also don't usually smoke DMT.
Perhaps it's dose dependent, given I've experienced "external" entities and spaces on large doses or mushrooms, eyes open and closed.
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When you meet the real other, it shakes you to the core. That was my experience. There is a clear difference between so-called entities from medicine visions and a truly other agent. The last time I connected to such a being, I almost peed my pants from the sheer force of agency behind it
I'm a strong believer that they open the door from the other side for these
@Voidmatrix, to me it seems high dose mushrooms are also more conducive of entity interaction than huasca brews.
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