Kash's Advanced LSA Extraction

[out there]

SWIM took the goo he had as a result of another tek and went right on thru this tek with it. Skipped initial pull with acetone since pull had already been done with ethanol and just dissolved as much as possible in distilled water made acidic with citric acid. Because of suspected incomplete defatting from previous tek, continued with defatting with naptha, but did not filter prior because so much was locked up in fatty putty-like globs that refused to dissolve in acid bath. Naptha succeeded in dissolving those globs but previous defatting step was so ineffective that it took three tries with large quantities of nonpolar solvent before clear solvent rendered in separation funnel. Filtered after defatting but before freebasing. Addition of ammonia turned solution yellow, then green. First pull with toluene separated cleanly without emulsifying despite vigorous agitation, but toluene was water-clear with no coloring whatsoever. Second pull with toluene emulsified badly, turning entire contents of reaction chamber opaque lime green after agitation. Approximately 12 hours later emulsion broke down into clear green aqueous layer topped by clear slightly yellow layer of toluene. Evaporated after separation, ganged toluene pulls yielded .516g of crystalline alkaloid. Estimated yield about .1%. Dissolved in 20ml distilled water and 20ml 80proof vodka with pinch of tartaric acid resulted in cloudy solution that glows blue under black light. Just over 40ml total. Hasn't dosed yet, but because yield is result of extraction from initial weight of 500 grams powdered morning glory seed, believe this to be highly concentrated LSA solution with impurities consisting of related ergolines found in Heavenly Blues. Waiting to procure peppermint oil before initial dosing.

 

[benzyme]

-high pH isomerizes lsa to iso-lsa.

is this a bad thing?

-literature for the art of extracting lsa from claviceps spp. suggest using ethyl acetate.
i've used both dcm and xylene with no problems whatsoever.

mind sharing how to make your own ethyl acetate or a kitchen chemists version

(well, i did bump into one thing...methanol/ethanol is miscible with dcm).

what is the reasoning for this?

sorry it took a while to find and address this.

the iso-lsa to lsa issue is a reversible reaction which depends on pH, afaik.
iso-lsa is inactive.

of course, preparing ethyl acetate is more hassle than just purchasing it.
ethyl acetate is non-acetone nail polish remover, and Kleen-strip MEK substitute. available OTC without suspicion.

DCM is a somewhat polar compound, its amphipathic properties must be why it's so miscible. freezing won't separate it, regardless of pH

 

[benzyme]

this was isolated from a certain fungus, please don't ask how. it was a lot of work...
but feel free to ask techniques.

 

[Nathanial.Dread]

I tried this extraction using around 150g freshly ground morning glory seeds.

Everything went approximately as planned. The acetone extraction was easy enough, evaporating the acetone also easy. Extracting into citric acid water, I had to work the putty quite a lot. Most of it didn't dissolve, but I kept mushing it until I was satisfied. I did it again with more citric acid water, just to make sure.

Then I filtered it out, then defatted with naphtha. This yielded yellow naphtha, so I repeated this twice. I then isolated the aqueous layer, slowly added ammonia using my pH meter to land firmly on pH 9.5 (I had noticed that additional precipitates formed when adding more ammonia from pH 8.8 so I continued until no more precipitate was noted, at 9.5). I extracted twice with toluene.

I evaporated the toluene solution to yield a viscous yellow goop. The crusty crysally solid I was hoping for was there, to be found as little chunks in the goop.

I dissolved this chunky goop in some unknown-proof ethanol (home distilled, estimated 90-94% etoh) and added a pinch of citric acid (I have no tartaric acid). The ethanol solution does glow blue in blacklight.

I wonder if I should have defatted maybe 5 times with naphtha? Or perhaps since I was using almost 2-year-old morning glory seeds, the alks have degraded into an oily substance. My pet theory is that morning glories just have so little LSA that using anything but water to extract them is asking for trouble with oily substances. I think this TEK is best for HBWR. I won't be trying this extraction with morning glory again. I will try with woodrose and see how it differs.

LSA is unstable, especially around light, moisture and heat. Consequently the potency of the seeds degrades pretty severely over time. Over the course of 2 years, and depending on how they were stored, I imagine most of the active molecules would have broken down, making an extraction largely pointless.

I don't know off the top of my head what it breaks down into, but it's possible they might be oily.

this was isolated from a certain fungus, please don't ask how. it was a lot of work...
but feel free to ask techniques.

Damn, Benzyme, color me impressed. It's great to have you around The Nexus, your knowledge of chemistry is inspiring.

I'm curious, did you grow the fungus yourself, or did you happen to stumble across some?

Blessings
~ND

 

[out there]

SWIM finally got around to testing the product of the mass extraction that had been cleaned up using this tek. Must have gotten too acidic, because, after ingesting what should have been a high dose, no effect other than some transient chills were noticed. If isomerization is reversible, how can reversal be achieved? Black light produces beautiful fluorescence so compounds are definitely present and in high concentration.
Any ideas?

 

[Nathanial.Dread]

SWIM finally got around to testing the product of the mass extraction that had been cleaned up using this tek. Must have gotten too acidic, because, after ingesting what should have been a high dose, no effect other than some transient chills were noticed. If isomerization is reversible, how can reversal be achieved? Black light produces beautiful fluorescence so compounds are definitely present and in high concentration.
Any ideas?

Certainly not without a lot of time, money and effort. It would be more efficient just to get more seeds and run the extraction again. The necessary reagents probably are not going to be available at your local Wal-Mart, either.

 

[benzyme]

I'm curious, did you grow the fungus yourself, or did you happen to stumble across some?

came up on some lyophilized master cultures, plated, and fermented according to various methods known in the art (patents). quality control and characterization was conducted using a compound microscope, ehrlich's test, and LC-MS.

 

[sigma&pi]

Kash claims that with pure LSA obtained with this TEK the dosages are much higher than what we are used to. But isn't this because of low efficiency of the process?

69Ron posted in the PanoraMIX TEK thread ( http://https//www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=8606 ) that LSA in its base form is also soluble in water, that's why any A/B extraction of it is prone to loses. He wasn't sure if it's also soluble in basified water solution but anyway, aren't these dosages crazy high?

With PanoraMIX tek that also pretends to obtain highly purified product the given dosages are standard.

A different problem is that most users who post that they tried this or that method don't report back of their outcomes... Maybe their products are killing them? I'm curious...

 

[Orion]

Has anyone tried to FASA the LSA? If that works it could simplify this whole thing and require far less materials.

 

[sigma&pi]

Do LSA solutions should always glow under UV or it depends on the form of LSA (salt/base)?

 

[Nathanial.Dread]

Do LSA solutions should always glow under UV or it depends on the form of LSA (salt/base)?

LSA should always fluoresce, AFAIK

 

[frobot]

Salt and base both glow. The only difference I've seen is if it's turned into a tartrate salt it glows BRIGHT white instead of blue when out of solution, then blue again when dissolved.
As for whether your solution should glow or not it still depends on what kind of solution you have. If it's your first initial pull from seeds then it should be brown and not glow at all.

 

[1ce]

Salt and base both glow. The only difference I've seen is if it's turned into a tartrate salt it glows BRIGHT white instead of blue when out of solution, then blue again when dissolved.
As for whether your solution should glow or not it still depends on what kind of solution you have. If it's your first initial pull from seeds then it should be brown and not glow at all.

Maleate salt would be the more practical way to store it, although it's not going to crystalize very well. A maleate salt will help protect the molecule from interacting with water (as much).

 

[fathomlessness]

Naptha likely wouldnt extract as well and might reduce yeild, but could probably be used.

I just wanted to double check that naphtha can be used without any loss?

let me get this straight, you converted seeds to ascorbate then evaporated your salts and pulled with naptha to yield a nice product?

I used lime/naptha instead of ammonia/dcm and the results were amazing. I pulled with naptha to yield a nice product

 

[Anamnesia]

Hey,

Quick questions (I've got acetone mixed with the powdered seeds right now):

1. What is the proper dose of peppermint oil? I have a one ounce (100%) pure peppermint oil product. How much of this is required to consume before consumption? Any advice on consumption of the oil?

2. I've looked everywhere for tartaric acid. Walmart, Kroger, Sunshine Nutrition Store, Publix - to no avail.
However, I did find a seemingly high quality "cream of tartar". Is this what Kash means by a 'pinch of tartaric acid'?
Besides, is it necessary and what is it's function supposed to be?

3. Finally, according to Benzyme, apparently xylene works in sub for the toluene / dcm. I have both xylene and naphtha. ButI failed to find toluol or dcm. However, some people have said they didn't need those, but used naphtha instead. I'm hoping somebody whose done this can provide some insight.

Other than that, I have all the materials ready, and am looking forward to following through with the remainder of the extraction in the morning, after the acetone has evaporated.

Thanks for any input!

 

[Spaced Out 2]

I've looked everywhere for tartaric acid. Walmart, Kroger, Sunshine Nutrition Store, Publix - to no avail.
However, I did find a seemingly high quality "cream of tartar". Is this what Kash means by a 'pinch of tartaric acid'?
Besides, is it necessary and what is it's function supposed to be?


Cream of tartar is potassium bitartrate, not the same thing as tartaric acid which is found in wines and is an antioxidant and anti inflammatory as well.

 

[Anamnesia]

...tartaric acid which is found in wines and is an antioxidant and anti inflammatory as well.

What is it's function in the tek? Is it necessary?

 

[1ce]

...tartaric acid which is found in wines and is an antioxidant and anti inflammatory as well.

What is it's function in the tek? Is it necessary?

It's function is to help protect the molecule.

 

[Spaced Out 2]

Regardless of its function you should always be in the habit of following any of these teks to a tee. This will help ensure you get the results you are looking for, and eliminate the chance of bad product. Good luck:thumb_up:

 

[benzyme]

...tartaric acid which is found in wines and is an antioxidant and anti inflammatory as well.

What is it's function in the tek? Is it necessary?

It's function is to help protect the molecule.

yes, because of its antioxidative properties (dual carboxylic acid moieties = two proton donor/acceptors).
incidentally, maleic acid (tartaric acid precursor) is a more effective antioxidant, possibly due to its structural orientation. however, it is relatively obscure compared to tartaric acid.