Exp. Report Ketamine vaped with CBD and terpenes

[Jorkest]

funny you are doing this.. i have been playing around with ketamine.. made a nasal spray but it honestly wasnt very good.. getting the ph just right.. all the liquid.. just kinda sucks.. i happened to have some left over freebase ketamine.. and thought.. does it vape? quick search said yes.. so i tested a small amount in a vapor G.. and by golly it works.. ive even mixed a little dmt into the mix.. and it is incredibly strange.. worth exploring farther..

ketamine freebase is not very soluble in high pH water.. and surprise surprise it's soluble in heptane.. pretty crystals

 

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made a nasal spray but it honestly wasnt very good.. getting the ph just right.. all the liquid.. just kinda sucks..

What was your approach for the nasal spray? I just dissolved ketamine in water, 1ml water can hold 1g ketamine HCl in my experience. I do agree that for whatever reason holing on the spray was difficult, I think there was too much drip. So in the end I abandoned it due to being too wasteful and not effective enough for my purposes.

ketamine freebase is not very soluble in high pH water.. and surprise surprise it's soluble in heptane.. pretty crystals

Have you tried dissolving it in PG? If you do, let me know!

 

[Transform]

Wow, @Jorkest was here - hi, jorkest!

 

[Jorkest]

What was your approach for the nasal spray? I just dissolved ketamine in water, 1ml water can hold 1g ketamine HCl in my experience. I do agree that for whatever reason holing on the spray was difficult, I think there was too much drip. So in the end I abandoned it due to being too wasteful and not effective enough for my purposes.


Have you tried dissolving it in PG? If you do, let me know!

i had to extract the ketamine hcl from a troche.. and out of the multiple ways to separate the ketamine from the fillers was to put them in water.. get them all broken apart and then add concentrated NaOH solution and then extract with heptane. so then i had freebase ketamine and would reconvert that to ketamine hcl with a 5% hcl solution and then adjust pH to around 5. it was just such a pain.. and honestly didnt work super well and was uncomfortable after awhile. it still worked but not nearly as effectively as vaping the freebase in a vapor genie.

i also dont "vape" so i dont even know what PG is.. im guessing it's a carrier.. i could look it up but honestly.. after vaping freebase ketamine.. i dont know why id bother..

vaping freebase ketamine is super nice.. it feels like inhaling nothing.. no discomfort at all.. and basically you can take one hit through a vaporgenie and reach k-hole in about 20-30 seconds.. it is short lived but i expect loading your body first with say a sublingual troche.. or insulfated.. you can extend the k-hole.. though honestly.. it's so discombobulating the short duration is pretty comfortable for me.. as it's pretty similar in duration to a vaped dmt breakthrough. by increasing blood concentrations before vaporizing it.. i think you could use vaporize much less ketamine freebase to reach k-hole.

and as i said.. i experimented with adding a bit of dmt to it.. and while it does add something to the experience.. the ketamine really overpowers it.. it definitely makes it more psychedelic.. but im going to have to experiment a bit more with different doses to decide whether it's worth continuing combining the two.. the ketamine kind of removes the clarity of dmt.. makes it feel more like a tsunami of discombobulation.. with the intense precision of dmt.. like i can feel the molecules crashing through my brain.. but ideas and thoughts are all blended together into a chaotic mess.. where i feel like dmt is so clear and clean..

anyway.. one hit k-hole is by far the fastest, easiest way ive found to really push the limits without going IV or IM route.. they are not really a way im willing to experiment with. plus like i said.. inhaling the ketamine vapor feels almost like nothing.. and even added a tiny tiny bit of menthol to the freebase just to feel if ive inhaled anything. otherwise it's honestly difficult to tell if youve inhaled anything.. well until the effects start.. which the first effects start in about 10 seconds and it reaches full effect in about 30 seconds.. i hold my breath after a hit to a count of 20.. and by then im exhaling no visible vapor that i can tell.. and able to reach k-hole. lower doses are also pretty fantastic.

 

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i also dont "vape" so i dont even know what PG is.. im guessing it's a carrier.. i could look it up but honestly.. after vaping freebase ketamine.. i dont know why id bother..

It's a different delivery method with different tradeoffs. On one hand, you lose the ability to know precise doses. On the other hand, it's very easy to redose and keep vaping until reaching your desired intensity level. It's also much easier to handle under the effect of dissociatives or psychedelics. That's why I'm interested in it.

Your description of vaporized freebase ketamine (likely with much higher doses than a puff of my small cart delivers) makes me think that indeed the CBD must have made a difference in my experiment. As in my case it was actually much less discombobulating than usual, and more psychedelic. I may do a further experiment on this next week.

About ketamine and DMT, in my case I've found DMT to completely overpower ketamine, although I had it on the comedown, once I was able to move. The shift to the DMT headspace was almost instant and quite startling, as my mind suddenly felt extremely clear, to the point I would have believed myself to be sober if I wasn't seeing an evil-looking being staring at me, then some kind of colony, etc. And this was with a "test puff" from my DMT vape (with a tank, not a cart) that would usually just have produced a few faint geometric shapes.

 

[Jorkest]

yeah cbd has been shown to increase the potency of ketamine quite well. so does magnesium bisglycinate and zinc.. also berberine and artemisinin are metabolized by the same enzymes as ketamine.. so if you prime with these supplements.. you can kind of increase the length of the ketamine effects.. and kinda of shape the experience a bit. and the cbd i think also has some neuroprotective effects.. because ketamine is actually not exactly great for your brain and can cause some damage.. it's pretty minor for the most part though.

if i want to have a more controlled/mild experience with ketamine the troches are perfect way to do it. it's idiot proof.. easy to control the dose.. and it hits you in a nice slow manner. so for me.. putting ketamine in another slow ingestion method is kind of redundant. but i obviously would like to try it.. but i guess that means i gotta learn how to do it

and also to add.. i used very little dmt.. so it's possible my dmt dose is just too low...

 

[Transform]

i also dont "vape" so i dont even know what PG is.. im guessing it's a carrier.. i could look it up but honestly.. after vaping freebase ketamine.. i dont know why id bother..

PG = propylene glycol, and you surmise correctly. One possible advantage of e-juice vaping is mitigating the risk of thermal decomposition, although knowing you it's clear that you've got your technique with vapor genie (not to be confused with vegetable glycerin, the other "VG" often seen in the context of vaping) honed with absolute precision.

Dialing-in an electronic atomiser takes a certain amount of practice too, so there's always a risk of thermal decomposition with that as well.

 

[Jorkest]

PG = propylene glycol, and you surmise correctly. One possible advantage of e-juice vaping is mitigating the risk of thermal decomposition, although knowing you it's clear that you've got your technique with vapor genie (not to be confused with vegetable glycerin, the other "VG" often seen in the context of vaping) honed with absolute precision.

Dialing-in an electronic atomiser takes a certain amount of practice too, so there's always a risk of thermal decomposition with that as well.

ketamine freebase starts to vaporize at around 180-200C i believe.. and it starts to decompose around 230-240C.. so it's a pretty large window for vaporization.. and significant decomposition around 280C. and from my experience the freebase vaporizes incredibly fast once heat is applied.. so decomposition at least appears to be very minimal with a vapor genie.

 

[Transform]

It's amazing to me that vaporising K in what's effectively a high-end crack pipe comes across as far more stylish than wandering around with a "Polo mint" adorning one's nostril

I will be sharing this method with some of the latter afflicted

 

[Transform]

ketamine freebase starts to vaporize at around 180-200C i believe.. and it starts to decompose around 230-240C.. so it's a pretty large window for vaporization.. and significant decomposition around 280C. and from my experience the freebase vaporizes incredibly fast once heat is applied.. so decomposition at least appears to be very minimal with a vapor genie.

Great. Airflow will help vaporisation to occur at a yet lower temperature, too. Getting technical about it, it's about the saturated vapour pressure in the vicinity of the crystal* at a given temperature. When the vapour gets removed with airflow, further solid* sublimes/evaporates according to the local temperature in order to maintain the vapour pressure equilibrium. (You probably know this anyhow - it was just fun to write it out!)
[*or liquid - see below]

How did you ascertain that vaporisation temperature? Does the freebase show a significant degree of melting or sintering at that temperature? (And should I have looked up the melting point of freebase ketamine already? Probably.)

 

[Jorkest]

i actually use a number of uncensored/abliterated local llm's and cross reference their outputs to get a general idea(asking the same question multiple times using different models to try to combat any llm hallucinations) . i know it's not perfect but keeps my "research" local.

the ketamine crystal melt almost immediately on heating.. i use a butane torch as it's a lot easier to apply consistent heat.. so it melts in a split second and id say 80% of it is vaporized in the first 5 seconds.. also creates the most amazing looking crystal patterns on the inside of the vapor genie. like stunning.. after only a few sessions it was worth to extract the deposited ketamine from the inside of it..

 

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The boiling point I've found reported most often is about 364C, there are some places that report around 250C (maybe HCl vs freebase?). I have not found any reporting 200C as the boiling point.

I'd be quite wary of LLMs for this, they are essentially compressed information, and information that is not well represented in the training dataset may show up as compression artifacts, i.e. convincing-sounding data without any relation to reality.

I'm not saying the boiling point isn't 200C, but I haven't found that stated anywhere..

 

[Jorkest]

The boiling point I've found reported most often is about 364C, there are some places that report around 250C (maybe HCl vs freebase?). I have not found any reporting 200C as the boiling point.

I'd be quite wary of LLMs for this, they are essentially compressed information, and information that is not well represented in the training dataset may show up as compression artifacts, i.e. convincing-sounding data without any relation to reality.

I'm not saying the boiling point isn't 200C, but I haven't found that stated anywhere..

lol yes i understand that about llm's.. i use them a lot.. training local models.. which is why i use multiple and ask multiple times and try to cross reference.. because i also had a really hard time finding any information about it.. the melting point of ketamine freebase is around 90C and vaporization starts around here.. and doesnt really pick up until higher temps.. Ketamine

and as i said this is all best guesses.. using what data i can find.. the vapor genie protects the vapor from burning once it hits 174C

 

[Transform]

I'm not saying the boiling point isn't 200C, but I haven't found that stated anywhere..

This might plausibly show up as a suitable convection airflow vaporisation temperature in the scenario I mentioned just now. It could also be determined experimentally by using something like a hot air soldering station, if you've a spare graduate student in need of a thankless task