Kratom as a trip killer

[modern]

Focus: Plant-based Medicine and Pharmacology: The Potential for Kratom as an Antidepressant and Antipsychotic

Mitragyna speciosa, otherwise known as kratom, is a plant in the coffee family (Rubiaceae) native to Southeast Asia and Thailand whose leaves have been shown to cause opioid-like and stimulant responses upon ingestion. The major pharmacologically active ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

So from my understanding the Mitragynine binds to receptors that will lead to anti psychosis effects. It may require a 'large dose?' [75 to 100 mg/kg of a methanolic kratom leaf extract containing 4.4% mitragynine was able to significantly decrease psychotic symptoms].
4mg/kg of pure mitragynine idk if that is high or not.

[While mitragynine has affinity to dopamine receptors assisting in the alleviation of positive symptoms (auditory, visual, and tactile hallucinations, delusions), it is suggested that mitragynine would also have the ability to reduce negative symptoms (alogia, avolition) through antagonism at serotonin 5-HT2A and 5-HT2C receptors.]

If anyone has interest in testing this it's quite interesting. I'll test if a single leaf can kill a lower dose ayahuasca experience. Caapi with kratom isn't the best idea but may also increase the anti-psychosis effect as well? This may be of interest to some however care needs to be taken when mixing plants. I don't think there would be any interaction between lsd or mescaline.

 

[Sabnock1990]

One can also potentially use high dose Methylfolate (like perhaps 45 to 60mgs) since it increases neurotransmitters by way of Tetrahydrobiopterin synthesis, and the increase in neurotransmitters would reduce Psychedelic binding to the Serotonin receptors which can "bring you out" of an experience if need be. At least i have the impression that'd work.

 

[Sameeyell]

I’ve used kratom during all stages of an lsd trip over the years. As well as 5-mapb and I believe once with mushrooms. It does not kill the trip, but those who enjoy kratom will likely have a serious mood boost/anxiolytic effect. Old thread, but I thought I’d give some light to the subject.

I will say I’d maybe be careful with serotonin dumping drugs like 5-mapb or mdma, the combo has made me feel quite weird and I wouldn’t reccomend it. But tripping is a green light with kratom imo.

 

[ABe©eDarian]

I use light Kratom dosing on normal days for pain management, anti-fatigue and mood boosting. On days where I take some sort of psychedelic what I notice is it less so comes to mind to dose or redose the Kratom. Then after the peak I tend to then dose Kratom again and it only ever adds a niceness to the day's event.

Anti-anxiety within the trip and a possible mood uplift I can see. Canceling a psychedelic trip, I don't think so.

I've seen it mentioned by some on this forum that Kratom in the system may have caused ill effects during Ayahuasca or had an interaction with Harmalas, but I've never had that problem. Best to trickle something in lightly at first until you know how to gauge your personal reaction.

 

[Jamie01]

I too have used kratom with LSD and can attest to it not blocking the effects but amplifying some. Especially the mental effects were boosted.

 

[Thierr7]

Not blocking Psylo effects here either ...

 

[Jamie01]

Honestly I can’t be the only person that finds kratom has the ability to produce closed eye visions and visuals? Especially with cannabis.

Once I took a heavier dose while on vacation in a hotel room and I fell asleep, woke up in this foreign room tripping very hard rising up out of my body into a colourful vortex of lights. I could feel a wind blowing across the room, blowing my astral self away. There were beings…I kept getting pulled into sleep paralysis and the hypnogogia went on for at least 1-2 hours. It was exhausting and my body felt weird/uncomfortable until I fell properly asleep.

 

[CataractSurgeon]

There were several high functioning guys at my Ibogaine treatment place there because they were badly addicted to the Kratom extract and it was ruining them - the concentrated mytraginine chem - take care with that stuff acts like an opiate and it binds tightly - you have to clear it and transition to morphine before Ibogaine will even work -and if you are prone it will addict you despite all the advocacy groups etc. I’m not for prohibition as it doesn’t work - but like alcohol in the wrong hands people get in trouble.

 

[Jamie01]

I haven’t experienced any withdrawals taking 2-3g a night for a month and then stopping. I think people using it to chase an opioid high all day or replace other opiates are the ones having issues…and using 7-hydroxy extracts etc. I can’t even imagine taking 6 grams a day let alone the doses some people say they had been taking.

It works fine at 2-3 grams a night to replace prescription meds that have side effects that make kratom seem harmless. I don’t feel compelled to dose it in the daytime and when I stop there’s no withdrawals at all. Like none.

I get it that some people go way overboard with it for reasons that are complex but I also feel there’s a lot of bs fear around kratom.

 

[frequencyelevation]

Unfortunately I can't test the Kratom technique for obvious reasons. Although I've done plenty of iboga on Kratom and never felt diminished effects from the iboga.

Niacin consistently kills trips of any tryptamine dose for me. Although, I find it's more effective with a lower niacin tolerance (I.e., you still flush when you take it). I haven't tried it with non-tryptamines yet. My friend tried it with iboga and he said it did reduce the effects of the iboga.

My friend says morning glory works, too but I never tried that.

Another cool trick I picked up from the same friend is nebulizing DMSO during a bad trip helps turn the trip into a good trip. It's also nice to do on the comedown of a trip, really good vibes. It also helps me significantly with an MDMA comedown, and protects the brain I imagine. This one's a little more out there so doubt anyone's heard of this.

 

[Thierr7]

I think Kratom can help a lot in various situations ; opiod withdrawal , pain etc ... Even though it's true that it takes a long time to get addicted , you defenatly can ! I've quit Suboxone rather easily thanks to Kratom , then i stopped Kratom ; no problem but i thougt let's do it again because it's not addictive , big mistake . i took a lot everyday for months and it really helped with neuropatic pains but i'm hooked on it now and i'm tappering down every week or so ... I still think it's a good substitute for pain killers and it's not so hard to quit if you go slow ... I never took concentrate and i won't .

 

[blig-blug]

Honestly I can’t be the only person that finds kratom has the ability to produce closed eye visions and visuals? Especially with cannabis.

My girlfriend experimented simple but intense and colorful CEVs from kratom once, unfortunately in the context of too much kratom, so she was feeling quite sick.
I have experienced it at higher doses too, although I get visuals with almost all depressants. These days I get more visuals, but I don't know if it would be the case with kratom too, as I only take infrequent low doses nowadays.

 

[Jamie01]

I think Kratom can help a lot in various situations ; opiod withdrawal , pain etc ... Even though it's true that it takes a long time to get addicted , you defenatly can ! I've quit Suboxone rather easily thanks to Kratom , then i stopped Kratom ; no problem but i thougt let's do it again because it's not addictive , big mistake . i took a lot everyday for months and it really helped with neuropatic pains but i'm hooked on it now and i'm tappering down every week or so ... I still think it's a good substitute for pain killers and it's not so hard to quit if you go slow ... I never took concentrate and i won't .

How much have you been taking per day(and dosing all day?) to become dependent?

I have never used other opioids and have no desire to become physically dependent on kratom, but It also helps me avoid prescription drugs for inflammation.

 

[ABe©eDarian]

I use kratom pretty regularly, at not too big of a dose, just to manage a bit of chronic pain and mood, and find the dependence basically about equal with the wanting of that big coffee in the morning. Personally I don't want to ever consider Vicodin, Percocets, etc, and I feel safer with the Kratom leaf.

The amount of addictiveness and at what dose and frequency is a very personal thing. Unfortunately I think some vendors are making things worse by knowing there's a market for habitual users of that 7-OH stuff which doses people via pills on amounts of 7-OH that are not naturally occurring in the leaf or via the liver processing the leaf's natural ratio of mitragynine and 7-hydroxymitragynine. People tend to be doing themselves a favor by just sticking with the leaves.

 

[Jamie01]

I noticed last night this happening to me again. I started taking 2-3G a night again about a week ago after 3-4 weeks off it. I hit my back on a rock hard surfing on saturday so I am extra sore and stiff…took maybe 4 grams last night and was having both the visuals and sleep paralysis. I can tell when it’s hypnogogia and visuals from the kratom now even though I always mix it with weed. I know what visuals weed causes vs weed plus kratom anyway.

 

[Thierr7]

How much have you been taking per day(and dosing all day?) to become dependent?

I have never used other opioids and have no desire to become physically dependent on kratom, but It also helps me avoid prescription drugs for inflammation.

I was taking 15 grams a day , which is a lot but i used to take that amount for a couple of months and quit cold turkey with no issues for years and stay away from it for a month or two .... it's when i took that same amount but for more than three months that i got hooked ...

 

[newusername1]

Honestly I can’t be the only person that finds kratom has the ability to produce closed eye visions and visuals? Especially with cannabis.

Once I took a heavier dose while on vacation in a hotel room and I fell asleep, woke up in this foreign room tripping very hard rising up out of my body into a colourful vortex of lights. I could feel a wind blowing across the room, blowing my astral self away. There were beings…I kept getting pulled into sleep paralysis and the hypnogogia went on for at least 1-2 hours. It was exhausting and my body felt weird/uncomfortable until I fell properly asleep.

Kratom or other opiates/opioïds never really gave me strong visual effects like psychedelics tend to. But i definately did get some hypnogogic hallucinations from kratom and also from oxycodone. But it was never really immersive but more like a sort of very smooth and effortless daydreaming.

I also find that kratom makes cannabis more psychedelic. It's a really nice combo. Double the relaxation.

 

[Thierr7]

I never had visual effects with Kratom or other opiates , besides , i agree that Kratom and cannabis is a nice combo unlike anything else !

 

[Thierr7]

An important fact about Kratom ; it works really good to lower your sugar level in the blood , it's been tested on rats succesfully ! i myself have diabete for a long time and do blood test every 3 months or so . It's always been much too high but last time i had a blood test , i took Kratom one hour before and the result was pretty good , just a little bit higher than normal !

 

[eLeSDee]

Kratom is great medicine. Unlike the addictive format of other opioids, this one has way less addictive potential, excluding 7-0h, psuedo or extract..these are STILL great weapons in the face of any higher tolerance addiction to hardcore opiates, yes it is a fine line but the salvation is there if you are actively looking to stick the landing and ride away clean.

I always felt opiates/opioids killed actual dreaming or the ability to remember a dream the night before. I can not add on to the CEV part of the discussion other than yes, I am sure it can bring visuals, especially to those not addicted to any opioids.