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Lessons Learned

Migrated topic.
If another person attributes you with a characteristic that they consider 'greatness' then surely allow them to see it that way. If you do not attribute that characteristic as greatness or elevation then sure define it yourself. These elements should really be of little consequence.

What really matters is that a separate entity here on earth loves you. There is no wiggle room for semantics on that because love is just love. It is not a required behaviour of an apex predator to share the energy of love. You cannot argue with it.

A serial killer's mother may still love them. It's still love. Embrace it. You do not need to be worthy in your own eyes.
 
fink said:
If another person attributes you with a characteristic that they consider 'greatness' then surely allow them to see it that way. If you do not attribute that characteristic as greatness or elevation then sure define it yourself. These elements should really be of little consequence.

What really matters is that a separate entity here on earth loves you. There is no wiggle room for semantics on that because love is just love. It is not a required behaviour of an apex predator to share the energy of love. You cannot argue with it.

A serial killer's mother may still love them. It's still love. Embrace it. You do not need to be worthy in your own eyes.
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I feel like I'm tricking them somehow (imposter syndrome), so that's a little bit hard. But I do understand what you mean, and that's why I tend to tell myself that what they say is part of their truth. That effectively removes it from me in a certain way...

And I like your sentiments and will actively work on focusing on that :love:

Thank you all.

One love
 
I mean, sounds like people are generally happy with the way you are, whatever kind of "status" is percieved is already being fulfilled.
Do you have intrinsic value?

I would like to contemplate the possibility that the perception of greatness and elevation is not actually coming from the outside.
And I know you want to stay as away as possible from those feelings but, as far as I can tell, the more you do the more you skew the balance towards insignificance and demeaning.

There is greatness and insignificance, there is elevation and demeaning, and somewhere in the middle, there is you, bringing forth your own expression of self, which is the best and only service you can offer.

I might add something else, and that its the possibility that the thought and intention of working on yourself could be reinforcing the feeling that you need to be worked on, that the self is something other than perfect.
 
ShadedSelf said:
I mean, sounds like people are generally happy with the way you are, whatever kind of "status" is percieved is already being fulfilled.
Do you have intrinsic value?

I would like to contemplate the possibility that the perception of greatness and elevation is not actually coming from the outside.
And I know you want to stay as away as possible from those feelings but, as far as I can tell, the more you do the more you skew the balance towards insignificance and demeaning.

There is greatness and insignificance, there is elevation and demeaning, and somewhere in the middle, there is you, bringing forth your own expression of self, which is the best and only service you can offer.

I might add something else, and that its the possibility that the thought and intention of working on yourself could be reinforcing the feeling that you need to be worked on, that the self is something other than perfect.
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I feel like I'd be tooting my horn if I stated any specific sentiments, however it's by their perceived nature and the ways in which they're delivered that bring up such notions as "greatness" and "elevation." It seems safe to infer based on these things.
But you may be right, and that's why I'm still pedaling on the unicycle... but mam is it uncomfortable right now.

And that could definitely be an echo chamber bias that I'm unaware of... good call.

Thank you :love:

One love
 
ShadedSelf said:
...whatever kind of "status" is percieved is already being fulfilled
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I answered previously heading back to work from lunch and meant to touch on the above quoted.

I hadn't thought of this... too busy focusing on the "work" I guess. Maybe I'm closer to where I want to be than I think...

And I swear you and fink are in cahoots to make me anxious (but for a good cause) right now :lol:

One love
 
Cahoots is such a great word :d

It could be that your open discourse about yourself gives us the opportunity to wrestle our own selves vicariously
 
fink said:
Cahoots is such a great word :d

It could be that your open discourse about yourself gives us the opportunity to wrestle our own selves vicariously
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Isn't it though :lol:

It means a lot to me that when I share about myself in some way it helps others. I'm not typically fond of eyes or attention on me, even in good ways. Spikes anxiety often times.

One love
 
It means a lot to me that when I share about myself in some way it helps others. I'm not typically fond of eyes or attention on me, even in good ways. Spikes anxiety often times.
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Thats the beauty right, sharing something positive also lets you experience yourself in a new way. :love:
 
bIRD_ said:
It means a lot to me that when I share about myself in some way it helps others. I'm not typically fond of eyes or attention on me, even in good ways. Spikes anxiety often times.
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Thats the beauty right, sharing something positive also lets you experience yourself in a new way. :love:
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Indeed, and I have been feeling and experiencing a great deal of balanced positive change.

One love
 
Voidmatrix,

I have been watching this thread and have been wanting to reply. I am pretty sure I have cognitive damage from covid that makes it hard for me to remember everything and fully express myself these days.

Having said that, this is an amazing post. So deep and well thought out. I resonated with what you wrote on many fronts. The battles with "depression/anger," the giving up on waiting for the right time, the inability to take in praise and the sheer stubbornness and indominable will that keeps you (and me) coming back for moar.

It would be easy for me to pontificate upon myself but let me just say I have really appreciated not only the original post but the responses and your follow-ups.

That business of speaking in an alien language - wow that is seriously next level.

By the way what I think all of the irrational fear is about is facing the unknown - always a daunting challenge for humanity and members thereof.

I believe you are on the right path and look forward to reading more in the future.
 
Pandora said:
I am pretty sure I have cognitive damage from covid that makes it hard for me to remember everything and fully express myself these days.
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I may have to do some research on this because I was struggling in similar ways for a while, however things do seem to be getting better with various changes that I have been making. Still not experiencing my own cognitive function quite like I'm used to though.

Pandora said:
It would be easy for me to pontificate upon myself but let me just say I have really appreciated not only the original post but the responses and your follow-ups.
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Thank you very much, and I have to agree with you in that many of these responses have been extremely touching for me on a deeply personal level.

I would also like to say that I try to post in a style that will stimulate productive discourse, so feel free to talk about yourself with regards to my topics. I find you always have very beneficial and insightful things to say and enjoy continuing to learn more about you during your renaissance here on the forum. :)

Pandora said:
That business of speaking in an alien language - wow that is seriously next level.
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That's DMT for ya! :lol: Not much surprises me anymore with the spice.

Pandora said:
By the way what I think all of the irrational fear is about is facing the unknown - always a daunting challenge for humanity and members thereof.
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There is an awareness that the unknown is what keeps me and my skeptical nature coming back. However, I do understand you stance and think that is part of the parcel of such an experience for me. There's a part of me that wants to be able to step into the space the way I used to, but things have changed, both myself, and my experiences in hyperspace. So really, where I am is only fitting, and I feel a deep shift within that's also letting me know that it's lasted a while, but is temporary.

Pandora said:
I believe you are on the right path and look forward to reading more in the future.
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You have my humility and gratitude. :love:

One love
 
Voidmatrix said:
I'm not typically fond of eyes or attention on me, even in good ways. Spikes anxiety often times.
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I share a similar distaste for the lime light. I always like reading your discoveries/self introspection. Makes me hopeful that one day I'll realize I've tackled my own bologna; or at least that I manage it in healthier ways.
 
Koduckushi said:
Voidmatrix said:
I'm not typically fond of eyes or attention on me, even in good ways. Spikes anxiety often times.
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I share a similar distaste for the lime light. I always like reading your discoveries/self introspection. Makes me hopeful that one day I'll realize I've tackled my own bologna; or at least that I manage it in healthier ways.
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Thank you for this. It helps me feel less like a big baby and a little brat :lol:

One love
 
I was going to create a new topic, but I think what I want to share and explore is related enough to this thread.

Sorry for beating a dead horse... :p

Anyway, there's a common hypothetical interaction that occurs in my mind. It's with a hypothetical person. This hypothetical person represents and reflects other people external to me, particularly of not a very mindful or open minded character. In this hypothetical interaction, I'm faced with justifying why I am not successful, doing better for myself, further along, etc (really they're societal inputs). Ive never had what I felt to be an adequate response until a couple days ago: I haven't had the sense of inner value and/or self-worth to do any better.

I'm sharing this out of curiosity (not seeking guidance or anything; you all have done that a lot and enough and i feel a little bad), for I definitely have to do this work on my own, but with that in mind, I must say that all of you who have assisted me and built me up, I'm humbled to and by you. I really like my autonomy, but with my interactions here and the help and insight I've received has shown me brutally that we all need help in some ways at sometimes, so thank you.

Anyway, as for my question, how do you, personally, find value in yourself?

One love
 
I feel like I can only share how my journey looked like in that sense.

Much of it was basically to sit with who I was, a worthless piece of crap, or what I felt like to be anyways, once you accept that then there is nowhere to go, no work to do, nothing to prove, because thats who you are, so be it.
Processing all my anger and shame was also a big one.

I feel like I could give you a bunch of philosophical answers to that question, but im not sure thats going to generate any change, so you get questions instead 😁

What determines your value?

Do you agree with this hypothetical person? That you are not successful, doing good for yourself or far along?

How would having a sense of self worth help you do any better?
What would doing better look like?
Why do you want to do better?
 
ShadedSelf said:
I feel like I can only share how my journey looked like in that sense.

Much of it was basically to sit with who I was, a worthless piece of crap, or what I felt like to be anyways, once you accept that then there is nowhere to go, no work to do, nothing to prove, because thats who you are, so be it.
Processing all my anger and shame was also a big one.

I feel like I could give you a bunch of philosophical answers to that question, but im not sure thats going to generate any change, so you get questions instead 😁

What determines your value?

Do you agree with this hypothetical person? That you are not successful, doing good for yourself or far along?

How would having a sense of self worth help you do any better?
What would doing better look like?
Why do you want to do better?
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Thank you guys for sharing.

To answer your questions:

1. Im not sure.
2.In some ways sort of in other ways no.
3. To answer the last 3, to havw more joy, to not be miserable, to be more fulfilled, to avoid a negative consequence of what i deal with... i dont know, part of me feels like these answer themselves...

Palmer Eldritch said:
I don't see the need to "find" "value" in myself. I am what/who I am. No judgment good or bad.
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Part of me envies you, yet another does not because what i go through only helps me grow.

One love
 
Definitely, life is a lot easier if you feel okay about who you are.

There is something that doesnt quite make sense to me here, but Im going to make a few guesses and you tell me if this sounds right to you.

Sounds like there is a good chance that your feelings of unworthiness are actually fueling your growth, not only that, its possible that the desire to grow itself is in hopes of feeling better about who you are.
Now if thats the case we have a nice little paradox here where the more you want to feel better about yourself, the less misserable you want to be, the more you need to lean into the self loathing.

Interestingly you seem to state it the other way around, where feeling good about yourself woul help you achieve things, which I agree with, the opposite also being true.

In what ways do you agree with the hypothetical person?
 
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