LSD vs DMT

[didier12]

I found weed would only alter my acid trips if I wasn't doing really large doses.
Like when doing like 8+ tabs smoking weed really does nothing because your already at the peak of experience pretty much.
But when on like 1 - 5 tabs weed definitely alters it specifically at lower doses, If I smoke weed on 1 tab it can be as intense as a pure 3 tab experience. That's what I personally have found anyway.

I also find that DMT opened doors that I now access with LSD trips. It makes my LSD trips like much longer slightly less intense DMT trips I also find it very easy to flashback to precise moments in previous trips to the point of being there again pretty much it's pretty crazy.

 

[Dethrone]

I found weed would only alter my acid trips if I wasn't doing really large doses.
Like when doing like 8+ tabs smoking weed really does nothing because your already at the peak of experience pretty much.
But when on like 1 - 5 tabs weed definitely alters it specifically at lower doses, If I smoke weed on 1 tab it can be as intense as a pure 3 tab experience. That's what I personally have found anyway.

I agree with this anything past 5 hits the effects were less noticeable but on lower doses it doubled or tripled the effects for a period of time.

 

[MySmelf]

I also feel that DMT can take you much farther than LSD.

A friend of mine, who had done a lot of LSD in his youth including one 20 hit trip, after I administered his first DMT experience with 50mg told me it made LSD seem like a cup of coffee in comparison.

I find high doses of shrooms to be more like DMT or ayahuasca than LSD. I've definitely had DMT hyperspacual like experiences on 5+ grams of shrooms. Lower doses of shrooms may be comparable to LSD but not over 4 grams IME.

 

[benzyme]

pretty much.

people have a hard time grasping the concept that LSD's effects don't really change above 800 ug, just an extended experience.

 

[nexalizer]

pretty much.

people have a hard time grasping the concept that LSD's effects don't really change above 800 ug, just an extended experience.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/1428246#1428246

Not that I know from personal experience..

 

[benzyme]

yes, I've seen that thread of glorified family rituals, written by someone who obviously has a love affair with the molecule. :roll:

after a lot of excessive LSD use, and experiences that were no different at the upper dosages, I can only conclude that lsd has nothing on DMT.

It might have been Dr. Charles Grob who also wrote, in the 1970's, that LSD has some dosage point of "saturation", where the effects plateau. it probably wouldn't matter if you did a scrotumprint. I'd like to find that ref again; it coincides with what I've observed, anyway

 

[corpus callosum]

It might have been Dr. Charles Grob who also wrote, in the 1970's, that LSD has some dosage point of "saturation", where the effects plateau. it probably wouldn't matter if you did a scrotumprint. I'd like to find that ref again; it coincides with what I've observed, anyway

I dont know if any of you people have come across a book entitled 'Storming Heaven- LSD and the American Dream' by a chap called Jay Stevens- its an excellent read and it mentions that doses above 600mcg of LSD simply prolong the experience rather than adding to the intensity.This may be the 'plateau' that Benzyme refers to.

I reckon that part of the confusion related to LSD dosing relates to the fact that for the majority of users the dose is just guess-work.I had a tab once which I was very reliably told was 250mcg; this was similar to taking 4 'average' strength tabs in one go and was plenty strong enough.If this was an accurate estimation of the dose then Ive no desire to take a 600-800mcg dose.I cannot imagine a dose of this size coming close to 40 or more mgs of vaporised DMT taken in one breath, and the duration of such a LSD trip is something I dont believe I would have the stamina for these days.

 

[benzyme]

It makes sense, when you think about it, given the complex binding profile of LSD; it is an agonist at some 5HT subtypes and D2/D3 receptors, and antagonist at other 5HT subtypes..allosteric binding at some may have something to do with it limiting certain effects.

yea, I'm not up for several days of tripping either.

 

[corpus callosum]

It makes sense, when you think about it, given the complex binding profile of LSD; it is an agonist at some 5HT subtypes and D2/D3 receptors, and antagonist at other 5HT subtypes..allosteric binding at some may have something to do with it limiting certain effects.
.

Definitely.The action of LSD is not as simple as binding to and agonism at one receptor class.This gels nicely with my one IV LSD experience-there was absolutely no discernible rush at all and the first effects were felt at around 10 minutes; the dose taken Im guesstimating to be around 60-70mcg (based on the 250mcg dose I took orally-this IV dose was about a quarter of this); the peak effects were no deeper/higher, but were achieved at 90 minutes instead of around 180 minutes.

DMT, IMO, is a much more profound substance than LSD-and as we all know, LSD is no slouch!!

 

[Dethrone]

To me lsd feels like a drug and DMT feels like a doorway/portal to someplace very deep inside or another dimension altogether.In my mind I dont consider Dmt to be a drug at all,not in the same way I look at cannabis or lsd.

It is in a class of its own IMO.

 

[benzyme]

some may argue "well, LSD is more potent", and indeed it is... but potency is a function of dosage required to elicit activity; this is independent and irrelevant to what the actual experience is.

 

[wrists]

LSD is a fantastic substance. something I haven't seen in about 15 yrs

have yourself a nice time. I found the best trips were outdoors at a nature park/garden or out in the woods somewhere hiking, alone or with close friends.

I don't think I prefer any of the hallucinogens over the other, they have their own pros/cons. I hope to combine a few sometime...

 

[Compound37]

Subjectively quantifying the experience, the DMT blows lsd out of the water.

Here in my college town the acid is of very low quality, so most of my trips just end up being large body loads with little visuals, even with up to like 6-8 tabs of unknown strength.

On my first acid trip, I couldn't sleep,it was very late, and I smoked some cannabis to try to relax, made my trip far stronger, and actually lead to me having a negative time for about an hour until one of my friends woke up and talked/calmed me down for a bit.

Since then I've smoked cannabis going into almost every acid trip to try and pass time/forget about the fact that I'll be tripping soon, usually leads to increased body load sensations.

 

[endlessness]

I think if you think 600mics is LSD's saturation point, you clearly havent taken a significantly higher dosage at once without tolerance.

LSD is a great tool. I suggest those wanting to take LSD, to at least looking at how it shines under UV light, as well as getting some ehrlich/van urk/pdmab reagent. Or even better, check into TLC. If you can send to a lab for gc/lc-ms, even better, but not all can do that.

LSD is great for enhancing music, artistic inspiration, being in nature, hiking and exploring, enjoying with friends, improving body control, getting ideas and problem-solving, etc. DMT is very different, I wouldnt use it for the same purpose, it has very different effects, it's more "epic-misterious" when vapped, and more prone to self-development/existential exploration when taken orally. In any case I wouldnt change my LSD for DMT and neither the other way around, they both have their own place in my magic box

 

[benzyme]

I think if you think 600mics is LSD's saturation point, you clearly havent taken a significantly higher dosage at once without tolerance.

tolerance occurs, there's no getting around it (receptor downreg, etc.)
but the real issue is LSD's effects due to various binding sites, feedback from the "psychedelic receptors" seems to be inhibited by binding at sites other than active sites of 5HT2a, at excessive doses. this is independent of tolerance.

 

[endlessness]

What I mean is, if you havent taken any LSD (or other substances with cross-tolerance) in the last month or more, and you all at once take 2000mics, you are CLEARLY gonna notice a difference than if you take 600mics in the same conditions, not just in lenght of time. Not saying anybody should do such high amounts specially not without appropriate preparation and setting, but if one did, I think they would agree with me.

 

[benzyme]

not likely.

this is what we've been saying. taking 2000 ug is a waste, you'll get similar effects at 600 ug. has nothing to do with tolerance, per se. it's not like DMT, which has more specific binding actions. LSD binds several different sites, some which inhibit the effects of others, of course this is more pronounced with increasing dosages.

 

[endlessness]

No offense but doesnt seem like you're talking out of experience on this one, and I am only writting this exactly because I did try and it was clearly different.

"Waste" is also subjective. Only I know the value of the experience.

 

[benzyme]

I'm speaking out of experience too, never noticed much of a difference past 700 ug.
colleagues have reported the same.


lol on an unrelated note, I can't argue, anymore than you can, about what you or I have experienced. I can however, cite the physiology of why LSD isn't as profound in its psychedelic effects as DMT. DMT is a more 'hallucinogenic' ligand.

 

[endlessness]

past 700? Does that mean taking 600 and then 700 and not noticing a difference? or 600 and 800, or 600 and even 900? Maybe with tolerance, or less control with set/setting/other substances taken? Maybe with less control of exact dosage due to acid degradation/uneven laying?

Because acid has a natural variance in the trip's strenght within a certain dosage, and then acid can be badly layed and/or degraded and what not. Im talking about taking a SIGNIFICANTLY higher dosage so that it goes significantly beyond the natural variance, at least doubling the dosage, without any tolerance from previous usage. Again, not saying people should, just sharing what I experienced and know others that did.

I think most people that claim saturation have not accounted for the mentioned above. Again, Im not speaking a bit of difference or something I might have placebo'ed myself, Im talking about difference between still being in this reality with strong visuals to being completely gone in another dimension and no recolection of myself.