Lucid Dreaming Difficulty

[Nathanial.Dread]

Hey all, for the last few months, I've been working pretty hard to cultivate a talent of lucid dreaming, and I feel like I'm getting there, but I've run into a problem. Whenever I realize I'm dreaming, in the dream, the dream immediately looses all vividness. Very quickly it fades the point that I realize that I'm awake and simply imagining the action of the dream.

Is there some method by which you can 'go deeper' into a dream once you are conscious of where you are?

Blessings
~ND

 

[Infectedstyle]

Using the senses seems to work.

Hold your hands as if in prayer and rub them. Take extra care to absorb your surroundings. Smell the trees if you are in a forest. Take a bite out of an apple. Use your voice to command the dream.

If you did all that you have engaged all your five senses. In theory you should now be grounded inside the dream.

It has worked for me before. In my last lucid, this was about a month ago. Funny thing, i coulden't speak properly. As if my dreaming mind still has to learn basic things like talking

I'm also actively trying to achieve more lucid dreams(tried to change diet and quit marihuana completely). With only little success. What method has worked for you?

 

[Nathanial.Dread]

Whenever I wake up, I spend a few moments meditating on the dreams I just emerged from. I don't write them down but I definitely take a moment to process them and think about what just occurred.

I also thinking about dreaming a LOT during the day. If I have a moment, I take some time out of the day to think about what I dreamt about or wonder if I'm still dreaming.

Over time, I've learned to recognize things in my dreams as 'dream-like.'

The problem is that once I do, I seem to start drifting back to consciousness.

Blessings
~ND

 

[sØrce]

When your dream starts to fade, use your eyes to "scan" your surroundings... look off at the horizon in your dream, and then keep your eyes moving. New features will emerge faster than they fade, and your dream will solidify.

I only have sight sound and touch in my dreams; I'll have to remember to use smells and tastes. Good suggestion! I think I recall having those sensations but they have remained passive... although now that it's mentioned, I usually smell moist night air in my lucid dreams. Mine are always at night as well, the lucid dream surroundings.

When falling asleep, just try to become completely still in your mind without losing awareness. When I'm tired and clear-minded, the dream begins as lucid. The intent, the idea of willing yourself to dream, is my catalyst. Thinking about how I want to lucid dream, imagining how that will go, was what enabled me to first "wake up" in my dreams.

Outside of that, as another suggested, saying to yourself, "Am I dreaming?" periodically throughout your regular day will transfer (superimpose?) into your dreaming life spontaneously.

There's another technique that goes along with that, like someone said about the prayer hands- holding up at arms length and looking at the back of your hand as you ask, "Am I dreaming?" YOu'll actually sense that you are in the dreamworld, and then if you look at the horizon, just past your hand, you can begin the "scan" technique. YOu'll know because your view will actively be changing or solidifying, depending on your abilities. All these can be practiced in your waking state and you'll have the technique down prior to the instant you awaken in the dreamworld...

Having a clear mind goes such a long way. Meditation to clear away stress, goal-setting to manage life stresses, and eliminating intoxicants that hinder clarity (caffeine, refined sugar, alcohol, marijuana, tobacco, greasy food, whatever else you might have an addiction to) can make all the difference. Quitting marijuana completely is paramount. On the other hand, some medicinal herbs, like motherwort, can promote lucid dreaming, as well as non-psychoactive mushrooms (the food kind). Drinking motherwort tea has enabled me to lucid dream in the daytime, during naps, which feels awesome.

Going to bed at the same time every night is also pretty important. Not eating too close to bedtime. Turning off all lights and tv's and monitors... All that good stuff.

There might be a crystal or kind of metal you can wear that can be your dream pendant. Idk because I never had to do that, but stuff like that can have a powerful influence on the mind. It has to be one you empower, so I can't suggest anything.

I used to tell a special person, "I'll see you in my dreams" and we would decide on a place, and I'd become aware in that place, at night. She was never there though; she was always asleep in her bed (in my dream!) I believe because I knew she was heavily medicated.

Sleep meds completely hinder lucid dreaming, with the exception of melatonin, which promotes the REM stage of sleep and thus dreaming.

You'll maybe like this- asking about lucid dreaming will make it much more likely that you will lucid dream.

 

[anrchy]

I've found this to be of help, im having difficulty even dreaming but they are starting to appear more often. My recall is getting stronger.

This is a guide that consists of many years of research and is free to download in PDF format.

Practical Guidebook | Phase Research Center

This FREE ebook is the result of our study of the phase phenomenon (lucid dreaming + out-of-body experience). It’s about how to achieve it, how to control it, and how to use it in everyday life. All facts presented in this book have been proven by vast numbers of practitioners and years of research around the world. And there’s no theorizing, but only hard facts and methods. There are several translations into other languages, which you can find at the link below (Spanish, Portuguese, Russian, Czech, Bulgarian).

 

[sØrce]

Nate I hopes you or any1 else repoarts back with results and teks

 

[Nathanial.Dread]

No joy last night, I'm afraid. I entered a lucid state relatively late in my dream, but the moment I realized what was happening, I immediately started to loose my grip on the dream. I tried rubbing my hands together, however, I found I couldn't feel them and the next thing I knew, I was waking up.

I'll keep trying, however.

Blessings
~ND

 

[adam]

meditate before bed, or at least avoid too much stimuli for as long before bed as you can. Seems to cancel noise/ focus your mind within the dream.

 

[sØrce]

Try the technique to hold your dream a handful of times a day while sincerely asking yourself: am I dreaming? It will transfer to your dream life.

If you want to rub your hands, do it anytime; then ask yourself, and then try to hold your senses through noticing changes- not the struggle to sense one thing. Practice while awake, and your conscious memory will know the technique well enough to duplicate it in the dreamspace. If you can't feel your hands rubbing, you're dreaming! Can you see? What's on the horizon? Keep it moving- it can't fade if you stay ahead of it by one step. "What's that, the vatican? What's next to it, an old lady walking? What's she carrying? What is her expression? What's near you? How does the sky look? The air smell....?"

The technique should be similar whether you are awake or asleep, the moving of awareness, but while awake, there won't be a fear of it fading; but it's the method, not the outcome, that you are practicing.

And so on until you can maintain the space without the pressing feeling of being incapable of it.

Dream on,
Ø

 

[Infectedstyle]

From what i've heared, people that have this problem your describing become too excited and lose the dream awareness. I dont have much experience in this area but i think you just need to remember to relax and THEN anchor yourself in dream images.

Otherwise, Lucid aids!

Take something to calm down. Valerian root comes to mind, my friend says "It prevents him from waking up when having nightmares". Sounds ideal for you, no?

Propranolol might help. I believe it slows down heart beat. I would rather not take it myself tho.

A Kamille tea before bedtime. Whatever works for you.

Most of the time however, i think you are just leaving a REM period. And you aren't skilled enough to dream in nREM periods. Kudos on you, because lucid dreaming in REM sleep is the hardest part. The nREM part is easily mastered with enough mental exercise.

Try the technique to hold your dream a handful of times a day while sincerely asking yourself: am I dreaming? It will transfer to your dream life.

I can seriously vouch for everything sØrce is saying. I once had a Wake induced lucid dream. Sometimes i come very close. When in trance, i visualize a dream scene. Or even a waking memory.

When the time is right, the dream will form itself, by itself. All i have to do is look across the horizon and novelty awaits. I once thought of a memory travelling the bus. Then i could feel myself moving around the bus and see clearly the houses i was moving through. The stuff they had in their garden. The number of their houses. The people in the bus. All forgotten memories i normally don't even pay attention to.

 

[Nathanial.Dread]

Success! Rubbing the hands together really does work, as do a lot of the techniques in that e-book The Phase that Anrchy posted up above me (thanks, btw).

Successfully induced and maintained a vivid lucid dream until they got too stressful, and then I just tapped out.

 

[Hyperspace Fool]

Congrats ND :thumb_up:

I just noticed this thread, or I would have chimed in before. I lucid dream every night... and have done so for as long as I can remember. 4 decades or so.

Looking at your hands is useful to become lucid. I prefer looking at my palms, but I won't tell you what happens because if you try it, I am interested if you have the same effect without me planting it for you.

For maintaining a dream after getting lucid, though... try spinning. If you can spin a couple times before the dream washes out, it usually solidifies a great deal. The 5 senses stuff is good, but I find that commanding the dream directly is best. If you need to speak out loud, do so... after a while you can just will it. Make a firm command that the dream solidify. It will.

For someone at your stage of the game, lucid dreaming is a lot like walking on a tightrope... with waking up on one side and falling back into normal sleep dreaming on the other. Get too excited and you will wake up. Get too comfortable and you will fall back asleep.

Thus, the key is to maintain a curious but detached mental state. Stay curious and keep being active, but hold back the enthusiasm enough that you don't come out of the dream. It is a bit tricky and somewhat counter-intuitive... but it is easy enough once you get the hang of it. When LDs become normal for you, you won't get so excited. More like "Oh yeah... I'm dreaming... okay what did I want to experiment with this time?" not "OMG!!! I'm LUCID!"

If you are not familiar with Lucidology, it is kind of neat and explains a lot of WILD and AP techniques that work well. Last I checked you could watch 10 of their vids on YouTube for free. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL872CCEF527B70ED7 Looks like it is 9 vids for free and they are missing a few from the order. 9 out of the first 12. Oh well, maybe you can find the rest somewhere else. I know they have a paid program that costs $

(never took it so I can't say the value)

But there is literally a ton of info on dreaming out there. You could fill a Kindle with just books about Lucid Dreaming, OOBEs and Astral Projection probably without even spending a dollar. As I remember there are a bunch of these books up here on the Nexus for downloading. Go to the splash page and one of the links should take you to our "library" and there are certainly a number of decent books there.

Good luck. Have fun...

HF

 

[universecannon]

Good advice ^

Once you go lucid just be cool and spin. After a while you'll get used to it and won't even need to

Getting too excited is something that mostly everyone runs into, and it was holding me back a lot at first (excitement -> increased heart rate -> increased brain waves -> you wake up)

 

[SpartanII]

Great advice in this thread.:thumb_up:

I would add that mindfulness meditation and lucid dreaming go hand in hand.

By practicing mindfulness meditation, you learn to gain control over your attention and emotional attachment/detachment.

Not only does it train your attention/concentration abilities, but by being mindful of your thoughts, emotions, actions, and body sensory input during waking hours, it will carry over into your dreaming with the result being relaxation, detachment, and you will be better able to walk that tightrope between waking up and falling back into normal dreaming as Hyperspace Fool described it.

If you are not being mindful during your waking life- moving quickly, jumping from thought to thought, thought to reaction, habit to habit, etc. then this is how you will probably act during dreaming.

 

[sØrce]

This thread is awesome, congrats ND on maintaining your lucidity.

In this thread I feel like the idea of lucidity being willed or intended into your life is reiterated again and again, sort of like once the idea is planted, it grows and takes on a life within your life. All these techniques are exercises in directing your will or planting the seeds of intention. I bet a person could climb a hill, shout into the wind "I'D LIKE TO LUCID DREAM!!!" and they would get results sooner or later.

There's a neat thing you can do when you can lucid dream properly and control your surroundings. It's to go to the place where your body lies sleeping. Look at your body. The supposed conclusion is that your "dreaming self" realizes that the body that lies there asleep is actually an aspect of your imagination. That is, the self that you are within during the supposed dream has actually imagined or dreamed up your sleeping self, and not vice-versa. A lot of mumbo-jumbo but a way of saying that You Are Your Dreaming Self and not the other way around. This inverts the self that we are experiencing on a daily basis into a creation of our consciousness, instead of the dream experience.

That stuff about your body waking up and seeing you leading to your death, I think is bogus. The one and only time I was able to visit my body, my body opened one eye really far and jolted me out of my sleep in a panic. I guess I don't know what would happen if my sleeping body woke up and started hanging out with me, but my consciousness had a fail-safe innately.

There's supposedly more one can do with the dreaming body but I don't believe in it so I can't really discuss it in any worthwhile way.

 

[SKA]

Hey all, for the last few months, I've been working pretty hard to cultivate a talent of lucid dreaming, and I feel like I'm getting there, but I've run into a problem. Whenever I realize I'm dreaming, in the dream, the dream immediately looses all vividness. Very quickly it fades the point that I realize that I'm awake and simply imagining the action of the dream.

Is there some method by which you can 'go deeper' into a dream once you are conscious of where you are?

Blessings
~ND

Unfortunately I haven't had a lucid dream in YEARS. But many years back I had a period in which I had many lucid dreams. I managed to "stabilise" the dream, to prevent it from fading away uppon becomming lucid. You become shocked, enthusiastic: Adrenaline is released & it starts to awaken you from your sleep, so the dream starts to fade.

To prevent this there are several methods, but my personal method was to teach myself that
"next time I become lucid, I will tame my enthusiasm, remain calm & prevent becomming too excited". The next time I became lucid I remembered that intent & practiced it. Here's how it went:

I became lucid mid-dream when I found myself in a Metro carriage that had stopped at a Metrostation I know from waking life. The resemblance & realism was astounding,
yet somehow, for no discernable reason, I realised that this entire enviroment &
experience was a dream. I felt gradual excitement about the realisation, but because it wasn't quite sinking in yet, I felt the need to perform a Reality Check to confirm it.

Spontaniously I decided to do an RC I had never performed before;
I jumped straight into the air & as I fell back down I noticed that Gravity
was significantly less powerfull than I was used to.
It was weaker than the Gravitational force of Earth; Slightly, but defenitely off.

I became really excited at this realisation. The dream became crystal clear, but as my
excitement wanted to skyrocket I quickly tempered the feelings of excitement, realising that if I became to excited I would start to wake up and the dream would fade. As I got my excitement under control, I saw that the dreamscene became clearer & more realistic.
It seems the clarity/stability of your dream is dictated by the clarity/stability of your mind at the time your having said dream.

Then I decided to just take a good look around, while slowly walking towards the front-end of the Metro carriage. It was a very sunny day. Many people stood on the platform next to the Metro. I observed the people in the Metro as I walked towards the end. A girl with black hair in a tail & a panther-print legging, a chubby man in his 50s wearing jeans, jeans-fabric jacket and a white Tshirt under it, passing through the Harmonica-like section in the Metro-carriage(that allows for movement in turns), the metal plates screwed in place on the Metro floor. Such amazing clearity. Unfortunately when I was nearing the front-end of the carriage the dream started to fade and I slowly woke up.

Maybe that "Taming of my excitement"-thing I did in that lucid dream, could help you too in stabilising lucid dreams & preventing them from fading.

There are many more techniques I've heard others mention throughout the internet;

-Spinning around your axis fast: Seems to stabilise & re-establish faint & fading dreams for many people.
-Staring attentatively at your own hands seems to work for many others.
-Verbally formulating sentences like "Increase Dream Clearity NOW!" seems to work for others.

You may even try to invent your own Dream Stabilisation methods, but be sure to give those methods I mentioned a try. They just might work for you.

 

[GreatBlueChocobo]

@ Nathanial.Dread:

This helps me, if I remember to do it while lucid dreaming.

Tap your thumb and pointer finger together while in the dream. While doing it think, or even say (in the dream) "This is helping me concentrate." or "This is helping me stay lucid" However you want to approach the thought.

Keep touching the fingers together if you need. Think of it like a lucid dreaming bell.

Also, when you find yourself lucid dreaming, try to see it lax. Like: "Oh, look. I'm dreaming." Kind of like how you would react IRL: "Oh, look. I'm in the kitchen."

The key to lucid dreaming is, for many, simply just telling yourself every night before you go to sleep: "I will realize I'm dreaming." Sure, it could take months, but you'll get it.

Also, also, if you didn't already know about it check out How To Trick Your Body Into Falling Asleep To Have Your First OBEs And Lucid Dreams In The Minimum Amount Of Time

There are a lot of free helpful vids on the subject on YouTube. (Just type in lucidology 101)

 

[Hyperspace Fool]

@ Nathanial.Dread:

This helps me, if I remember to do it while lucid dreaming.

Tap your thumb and pointer finger together while in the dream. While doing it think, or even say (in the dream) "This is helping me concentrate." or "This is helping me stay lucid" However you want to approach the thought.

Keep touching the fingers together if you need. Think of it like a lucid dreaming bell.

Also, when you find yourself lucid dreaming, try to see it lax. Like: "Oh, look. I'm dreaming." Kind of like how you would react IRL: "Oh, look. I'm in the kitchen."

The key to lucid dreaming is, for many, simply just telling yourself every night before you go to sleep: "I will realize I'm dreaming." Sure, it could take months, but you'll get it.

Also, also, if you didn't already know about it check out How To Trick Your Body Into Falling Asleep To Have Your First OBEs And Lucid Dreams In The Minimum Amount Of Time

There are a lot of free helpful vids on the subject on YouTube. (Just type in lucidology 101)

Yes.

I forgot to mention the finger tapping technique... but I did put a link in my post above to the aforementioned Lucidology vids. Those tend to be rather good, if a bit advanced for the true LD novice. They focus on WILDing and AP stuff which is definitely valuable, but may be a bit down the road for the person just learning to get lucid from within a dream.

At any rate, I recommend reading as much lucid dreaming material as you can get your hands on. When I started into this stuff, there were only a few books on the subject available. I believe the seminal Creative Dreaming was just released when I read it. Nowadays, however, there are a plethora of worthy books on the subject. This website is also useful and may have more entry level stuff than Lucidology. The page I linked to has the 6 Basic Steps from Marc VanDerKeere's Ultimate Lucid Dreaming Manual. The full book costs 10$, but you can find the information for free if you look. Just reading up on the subject and buying a dream notebook alone are enough to push many people into lucid dreaming, and it is my opinion that anyone sufficiently interested in the subject will eventually persevere and achieve skill in this if they stick with it. Most people give up after a couple weeks, and this is a shame. Most skills worth developing take longer than that to develop... think of how long it took you to learn to walk, or talk.

That said, I don't think that all people are starting off from the same level in this. Some people rarely remember any of their dreams, or dream in black and white. I know a number of people who don't really have a dream body, or a "normal" dream world... but rather just see a jumble of images and mental detritus. Naturally, these people will have a harder time getting to the level of a real lucid dream master than someone who has a prolific dream life already, and may have had a number of semi lucid dreams already. (turning to confront the monster chasing them in a nightmare etc.)

Much luck to anyone who decides to invest in this most worthwhile of skills. However long it takes to develop, it will be worth the effort.

HF

 

[Chadaev]

For those who want a little help with lucid dreaming, this book on supplements is extremely good. Excellent suggestions, especially, on 'breaking down the wall' between states of consciousness.

http://imreallyawesome.com/awesome/uppers/2012-05-23Advanced%20Lucid%20Dreaming%20-%20The%20Power%20of%20Supplements.pdf

Yuschak knows his stuff. Supplements are not for beginners, as he points out. You have to do the mental training yourself. But I have had some epic lucid dreams on basically miniscule doses of some of the supplements he recommends.

I'm sure the more people who learn navigation skills in lucid dreams, the more corners of the DMT zone are going to be explored and written about.

 

[Chadaev]

Can't resist adding one more. Would-be lucid dreamers... Introducing: The Skullfck

http://www.sacred-texts.com/eso/chaos/skulfck.txt