Man made Law

[Philosopher]

Saying that something is "wrong", because it is illegal is completely illegitimate. While most illegal activities are viewed as wrong, like murder or theft, much is just the opinion of the masses. Law should only contain undeniable wrongs, without opinion based ethics on how to live one's life. How do we know what undeniable wrongs are? To most it is pretty obvious, but I'd say that if all people of different religions, ethnicities, and backgrounds agree that it is wrong, then it should be illegal. I do not know of any lasting tribes or cultures that permit murder, or rape. However, there are many countries where being homosexual is a crime! In America, just a few hundred years ago, you could actually own people legally.

These are extreme examples of the corruption of law. When opinion or religious beliefs get in the way of pure truth. After all, the law makers are humans, the judges are humans, and the presidents are humans. What makes those humans more capable to decide right from wrong than me, I'm a human too. The only thing in the way of personal freedom is this illusion of power that we cannot escape from. No man has more right, or legitimacy than another man. No group of men can decide for you what is right for you. They can sure as hell decide what is right for them, but not for you. The drug laws are a horrific manifestation of the humans beliefs, that played the game the best, to be in control. The ones in power are not the ones with intelligence, they are the ones who have succeeded in receiving a majority vote. Let the personal preferences of the people be controlled by the individual, and the undeniable truths to be controlled by the government.

The constitution gaurunteed all citizens the unalienable right to freedom, and pursuit of happiness. How each human uses those rights is up to them, as long is does not impede upon the rights of another.

I am just writing this because I was charged with possession of marijuana and am appalled that such a thing is possible. I know it is illegal, but to label someone a criminal? For possessing a naturally occurring herb. This madness must end. If I don't play the game in court, apologize and admit my wrong doings, submit to drug tests and rehabilitation, then I may never be able to receive the job I wish to have. Although my intelligence is well proven on paper, and my heart is set on helping people, I am just another drug addict if charged to the full extent.

I want more than anything to ask the judge, what did I do wrong? But I know I can't, because he has the illusion of power, and he has the delusion of laws detailing right from wrong. In the future I hope for the legalization of all substances, ideals, and pursuits, so long as they do not harm anyone or anything.

 

[primordium]

Law should only contain undeniable wrongs, without opinion based ethics on how to live one's life.

The law cannot be so simple.

Generally, the strength of the law is its common-law experimentation, endlessly tweaking its own dynamics (applying precedent typically, overturning it when necessary). The law grasps history as contingent, and rightfully so; in other words, there is a greater reliance on customs rather than absolutes. For a simple question that exposes the subtlety of law, attempt to answer the following question, "Should a person be held accountable to the Terms and Conditions they have 'agreed to' when clicking on Apple's many-page contract?" I don't think one can answer that question algorithmically, without nuance or self-doubt.

Of course, I--more or less--agree with your sentiment that self-ownership should be inviolate. One of the worst elements of the Drug War is the silencing effect it has on its critics: if I come out and openly attempt to legalize drugs, I will be immediately stigmatized by others, perhaps barred from professional opportunities. Thus, even if I am not committing crimes, there is great pressure to remain silent about my convictions.

I sincerely hope the best for you. Above all else, my advice is to hire a lawyer.

 

[christian]

Saying that something is "wrong", because it is illegal is completely illegitimate.

The law is ´black and white´to make it the same for everyone, however in reality there usually is some room for reasonable discussion. Thing is, you know what it´s like where you live, you knew the risks, and you have to deal with them cos you got caught out. That´s the breaks im afraid, its the same for anyone else in your situation, so in THAT way, it´s fair.

Whatever, drop any áttitude´, cos this is what the law really dislikes. If youre fair and reasonable, then they may in return be so.

 

[a1pha]

Saying that something is "wrong", because it is illegal is completely illegitimate.

Thing is, you know what it´s like where you live, you knew the risks, and you have to deal with them cos you got caught out. That´s the breaks im afraid, its the same for anyone else in your situation, so in THAT way, it´s fair.

Unfortunately, I have to agree with this statement. While the war on drugs is unjust, you know the law where you live and if you're caught you must face the consequences. We are all responsible for our actions and if we chose to break the law and we are caught then we must 'suck it up' and be ready to pay for those actions.

If you don't like it 1) don't break the law or 2) move somewhere else. I live in a state where MJ is legal by a doctors recommendation. However, I also chose to use DMT which is not legal. By doing this I also chose to accept the consequences if I were to be caught. I therefore take every possible precaution to prevent this.

I must ask, how were you caught? I imagine it wasn't simply by smoking MJ in your home. Were you driving or found with it on the street? Please explain...

 

[flickedbic]

Why don't we make it legal for ourselves?

Isn't it illegal 'cause we agree to it being thus; usually I think... by hook or by crook.

I wonder if one speaks with/tells them (by serving binding notice) that it is our belief that using these molecules hurts no one and it is therefore lawful to use and state that one intends to because of this - and even if one gets brought in for it then they will be charged so much/hour for such an inconvenience... and that if they fail to respond they will be agreeing with this understanding and intent.

In law silence is consent; will they respond explaining how not hurting anyone is unlawful or would one gain permanent estoppel by aquiescence (after further failures to respond and final notice)?



I'd say that all these good faith attempts to reach a consensus before the fact is very honorable.

Maybe practice with a less volatile issue.

 

[Philosopher]

I don't mean to shift the blame upon the laws. It was my mistake and I alone am responsible. What I am meaning by this post is that the law is not always a definite right, it wasn't written by the creator of the world, it was written by men.

I got caught buying weed, after I got out of the mans car, he is a legal caretaker, but takes the risk to sell to me since I know him. So I got out of his car with the weed in a bag, inside of a sock, inside my boxers. I simply was in the wrong place at the wrong time. It is unfortunate that there was a security guard there who saw the whole thing. The dealer left right after and wasn't caught, but I was stopped before I got back to my car. He asked to search me and I did not consent. He said he is going to call the police and it will be on record and ill be arrested. I said why would I be arrested? And he said that he smelled the weed in my possession which is reasonable cause for suspicion. If I had gotten in my car and left I could've been stopped with some other crime, not sure about the rules. But he had already gotten my plate number.

Long story short, I should have just gotten a medical marijauna card. Seeing as it is legal for medical use in my state. I just hadn't quite gotten around to it yet. I am completely at fault for breaking the law when I knew there would be consequences.

It just seems striking to me, that if I had gone to a doctor who prescribes marijuana and described my symptoms, I would no longer be breaking the law. The incongruencies between federal and state law are completely illogical. Which is even more reason for no regulatory power in the aspect of consumption of substances.

They don't outlaw McDonalds? They can't stop the cigarette companies. Prohibition of alcohol failed. The war on drugs failed. When will they realize we deserve some rights of our own.

 

[Philosopher]

Also,Christian, yes I dropped my attitude. I took responsibility in court and was very respectful. I know the judge is not at fault, the closest single man I can blame is myself. Got 9 months probation and I can get this off my record if I show up clean on a standard 5-panel screening once a month. Sadly, my MJ habit has to be put on hold. But this is what I get for trying to cheat the system, I now know I must play by their rules. I do live in reality, after all.

I was sentenced to some community service, which really is not a punishment at all. I've been meaning to do some service work and now ill be more focused towards it.

I signed the form for the drug test and it is a standard 5-panel, no extensions. I presume I can safely ingest my mushrooms currently en growth, but ill have to think about it. It may just not be worth the risk, even though it is extremely unlikely they would test for it, or that it wouldn't have been metabolized by then.

 

[spinCycle]

I wonder if one speaks with/tells them (by serving binding notice) that it is our belief that using these molecules hurts no one and it is therefore lawful to use and state that one intends to because of this - and even if one gets brought in for it then they will be charged so much/hour for such an inconvenience... and that if they fail to respond they will be agreeing with this understanding and intent.

In law silence is consent; will they respond explaining how not hurting anyone is unlawful or would one gain permanent estoppel by aquiescence (after further failures to respond and final notice)?



I'd say that all these good faith attempts to reach a consensus before the fact is very honorable.

Maybe practice with a less volatile issue.

I suspect if you tell the authorities you will be billing them for your time and inconvenience they will laugh at you all the way to the jailhouse.

As a friend of mine used to say, "The problem is, they've got the guns."

Your idea is nice in theory, but the power balance is unequal. What you're talking about is basically civil disobedience, and one of the things necessary for that to work is a willingness to take unjust punishment to prove your point. One person alone, you're probably just screwed. Enough people to clog up the courts for years on end, and you've got a movement.

Add some very good lawyers, smart use of the media and find a way to get more than half of the public on your side and you might just win.

It's not easy, but it can be done. Just ask anyone from the civil rights movement of the 50s and 60s.

 

[a1pha]

As I tell my MJ smoking friends, paying the $100 for a medical marijuana script is the least expensive insurance policy around. I hope this serves as a lesson to others.

 

[jamie]

"christian wrote:
Philosopher wrote:
Saying that something is "wrong", because it is illegal is completely illegitimate.

Thing is, you know what it´s like where you live, you knew the risks, and you have to deal with them cos you got caught out. That´s the breaks im afraid, its the same for anyone else in your situation, so in THAT way, it´s fair."

Sound like a well thought out load of bullshit to me.

 

[Jin]

the law sucks and we all know that , the law is not there to give you freedom , its there to take it away

be intelligent , your freedom is yours

lie , cheat and steal when it comes to the law , treat people with power with false respect and they'll go easy on you ,

you're not guilty in the eyes of law until caught , so be clever and don't get caught is the bottom line

the law will not give you your freedom , you have to take it simply by lying , cheating and stealing , and its all good with the law if you can get away with it

don't blame the law , avoid it , cheat it and raise your middle finger

 

[Ufostrahlen]

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law

 

[christian]

"christian wrote:
Philosopher wrote:
Saying that something is "wrong", because it is illegal is completely illegitimate.

Thing is, you know what it´s like where you live, you knew the risks, and you have to deal with them cos you got caught out. That´s the breaks im afraid, its the same for anyone else in your situation, so in THAT way, it´s fair."

Sound like a well thought out load of bullshit to me.

What does Jamie?

Being an adult means taking responsability for your actions in the world you live in . Do you agree or are you a silly hippie who thinks he can do whatever and not get in trouble?

 

[Philosopher]

Yes you have to pay the consequences for breaking the accepted laws, but in my mind if they don't make sense then it seems there is no reason to follow said law besides risk of punishment. Those who disagree with a law, and rely upon their own moral compass are persecuted in this free? Country. Therefor most of us agree to either follow laws, or not get caught. People don't seem too mad about this though. I am. I have to hide my behaviors for fear of punishment, sounds like the story of most dictated countries. Marijuana, a schedule 1 drug, is placed in the ranks of heroin and has no medical value, and is highly addictive. That is what schedule 1 means, unless they are breaking their own scheduling definitions, then that is how the federal government sees marijuana. If I have a different opinion, I am free to voice it, but will be looked upon unfavorably, especially in the field I am aspiring to enter. This may seem all fine to the normal citizen, but to those who can think and reason independently based on science, not general beliefs have little power in some cases. Tobacco and alcohol. Two of the most toxic widely used substances, are legal. While many nontoxic and possibly even beneficial herbs are stigmatized on an appalling level.

This is a stretch, to say we have no true freedom, unless we have the right to decide what we choose to consume from the available supply. What we eat. Is what we are. What we ingest, and inhale, and drink, effects our bodies and our consciousness. We can choose to consume McDonalds daily, yet are unable to eat a naturally growing mushroom. Madness.

 

[a1pha]

Philosopher, you said it yourself. You live in a state allowing the use of medical marijuana. Sounds like you're blaming the system b/c you failed to take the time to follow the rules and go through the process of getting a recommendation. Yes it's a Schedule I drug but it is slowly gaining legitimacy and the state is slowly allowing its use. Laws change slowly!

If I know how to drive yet fail to obtain a drivers licence then I run the risk of going to jail and paying the penalty for my actions. I don't blame the system because I failed to get a license - I blame myself for being lazy.

 

[John Smith]

So, some time in a past, if you're born from parents who already belong to another person by law, do you accept responsibility as being owned for the rest of your life too ?

 

[embracethevoid]

the law sucks and we all know that , the law is not there to give you freedom , its there to take it away

be intelligent , your freedom is yours

lie , cheat and steal when it comes to the law , treat people with power with false respect and they'll go easy on you ,

you're not guilty in the eyes of law until caught , so be clever and don't get caught is the bottom line

the law will not give you your freedom , you have to take it simply by lying , cheating and stealing , and its all good with the law if you can get away with it

don't blame the law , avoid it , cheat it and raise your middle finger

Ironically this is the precise modus operandi of every major lawmaker. The list of scandals is hilarious, let alone what is yet to be seen. This is the unspoken agreement you see in the law. They always place these crafty loopholes to ensure they can cover their own ass when needs be. In much the same way that Microsoft can easily lock down Windows and prevent piracy of its OS with a few changes to its licensing methods but rather prefers to let it get pirated and consequently dominate in market share.

I don't mean to shift the blame upon the laws. It was my mistake and I alone am responsible. What I am meaning by this post is that the law is not always a definite right, it wasn't written by the creator of the world, it was written by men.

Don't apologize for standing up for justice. This is patently absurd. No amount of lawyer flapdoodle will make up for the fact that man has no right to forbid what nature has created when it intrinsically does not affect the global evolutionary utility function in a negative fashion: that is justice.

The responsibility of blame is entirely on those who set up unjust laws so that they may themselves profit by means of subversion and coercion. These persons have condemned themselves to severe suffering but they do not quite perceive it yet.

Either way, you would not take an apologetic stance when arguing that 2+2=4 to a bunch of flat earthers so when you know for a fact that something is unjust, what is there to apologise for? Does the fact that you failed to fill out form X or conform to process Y actually change the fact that the aforementioned law is intrinsically unjust? No, it damn well doesn't. So again, quit being a pussy and stand up for what Nature has bestowed rightfully upon its creatures. Stand up to evil, and your own ass is on the line. Surrender to evil, you condemn the entire world.

Blameworthy and despicable are those who yield to anything but the divine order.

 

[jamie]

"christian wrote:
Philosopher wrote:
Saying that something is "wrong", because it is illegal is completely illegitimate.

Thing is, you know what it´s like where you live, you knew the risks, and you have to deal with them cos you got caught out. That´s the breaks im afraid, its the same for anyone else in your situation, so in THAT way, it´s fair."

Sound like a well thought out load of bullshit to me.

What does Jamie?

Being an adult means taking responsability for your actions in the world you live in . Do you agree or are you a silly hippie who thinks he can do whatever and not get in trouble?

I think that is a sort of deluded response. It is a fallacy to compare anything is this thread to silly hippies who think they can do whatever they want..but good luck with this sort of reasoning.

 

[jamie]

Philosopher, you said it yourself. You live in a state allowing the use of medical marijuana. Sounds like you're blaming the system b/c you failed to take the time to follow the rules and go through the process of getting a recommendation. Yes it's a Schedule I drug but it is slowly gaining legitimacy and the state is slowly allowing its use. Laws change slowly!

If I know how to drive yet fail to obtain a drivers licence then I run the risk of going to jail and paying the penalty for my actions. I don't blame the system because I failed to get a license - I blame myself for being lazy.

LOL!

..as if requiring a drivers licence to drive on the road where you can potentially endanger other people and someone being required by the state to pay for a card that says they can smoke weed are comparable. Are you people for real?

 

[a1pha]

LOL!

..as if requiring a drivers licence to drive on the road where you can potentially endanger other people and someone being required by the state to pay for a card that says they can smoke weed are comparable. Are you people for real?

Yup. That's the law. Either play by the rules or accept the consequences. I know this sounds crazy to someone who ignores tickets and blames the police b/c they didn't wear a seat belt... but that's the price of living in society.