Freedom & Modern Systems of Control

[blig-blug]

You're absolutely right, not suffering is better

That's not what I meant. Look at the complete context:

The next 10 years is going to blow the population's minds. One generation of anguish about it, then the new normal will be accepted.

It's only the transitional generation that will suffer

It may be true. However there are horrible ways to not suffer. Let's hope they don't suffer because everything is better then.

It was in reply to "only the transitional generation will suffer", implying generations beyond won't. There are horrible ways to not suffer. So, I was hoping that if what you were saying is actually true, it's not through one of those horrible ways to not suffer.

I was not making any kind of judgement about whether not suffering is better or not. As always, "better" for what end? Neither was I agreeing (or disagreeing) with those ideas about the next 10 years, one generation of anguish, etc.

Though suffering must still exist

Well, that's not what the conversation was about

 

[TransistorBass]

Seeing it here, its feels like we are all being lead down an orchestrated path towards some truly horrible politics here in the UK and the wider world.
Religion was the first form of control brought to the UK by the Romans, broadly speaking we do not need religion, religions can help people but sadly they are co-opted by greedy people who only want power and more money and possessions. Religions can be like fixed view point and unchanging, peddling the same male-derived stories over and over.

Personally I can't see a way out, but if we allow our Governments to take us down this path we will all be the worse for it in and future generations are going to wonder why we let it get that way.

We ALL own the world but we let a small minority rule it!

Merry Christmas and Good Luck.

 

[LuxObscura]

"Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times."
- G. Michael Hopf, Those Who Remain

 

[northape]

Personally I can't see a way out, but if we allow our Governments to take us down this path we will all be the worse for it in and future generations are going to wonder why we let it get that way.

Future generations will not wonder. For them, it is going to be how life works. Do you think that you are free or something? The process to capture us started a very, very long time ago. The same people who killed every strong man in the village to take over govern this world. You will not ever find them - they made sure of it. Our politics is just a facade for you to see. The real rulers are deep in the shadows. So, it is up to God (life) to fix it. You can try to do it yourself, but it is like a sheep trying to govern the herd. You will be put in your place right away.

We ALL own the world but we let a small minority rule it!

We own nothing here and are just a part of the world. That prideful attitude that came into us through society is part of the problem. We do not see this world as hunter-gatherers did. So, even our dissatisfaction partly has its roots in culture.

 

[rkba]

You will not ever find them

Currently I have come to the perception that 'they' are not 'us'. That 'they' are more like the Native American's Wetiko, a 'parasite' on the Soul.

In my perception-scale at this moment, I think that to cure us from this Wetiko we have to individually decide to stop following our programming. However it can not be an orchestrated event, for there lives the Wetiko.

We all walk out of Plato's cave together, individually, at the same moment. We may walk straight back into another cave, or maybe we find the exit and walk into who knows what.

I'm not saying that it would be better, but it could return a certain degree of Freedom. A degree of Freedom that we lost millennia ago.

And don't forget that Freedom is not free, it always comes at a price. Well, that's what my old programming is telling me.

Everything is programming, the only way to find out is through experience, experience can show you what is what. Provided your perception is able to 'see' the what.

It's a murky river this your-perception-creates-your-reality. However, once a murky river hits the sea, it creates fertile land. Or so I have personally observed.

In the meantime enjoy the Flux and Flux with Joy!

 

[northape]

Currently I have come to the perception that 'they' are not 'us'. That 'they' are more like the Native American's Wetiko, a 'parasite' on the Soul.

In my perception-scale at this moment, I think that to cure us from this Wetiko we have to individually decide to stop following our programming. However it can not be an orchestrated event, for there lives the Wetiko.

We all walk out of Plato's cave together, individually, at the same moment. We may walk straight back into another cave, or maybe we find the exit and walk into who knows what.

I'm not saying that it would be better, but it could return a certain degree of Freedom. A degree of Freedom that we lost millennia ago.

And don't forget that Freedom is not free, it always comes at a price. Well, that's what my old programmering is telling me.

Everything is programmering, the only way to find out is through experience, experience can show you what is what. Provided your perception is able to 'see' the what.

It's a murky river this your-perception-creates-your-reality. However, once a murky river hits the sea, it creates fertile land. Or so I have personally observed.

In the meantime enjoy the Flux and Flux with Joy!

That is roughly the approach I try to follow. Personal evolution gives rise to global evolution. How much of it comes from me, and how much comes from nature working through me? Our predicament is entirely natural; it is a consequence of everything that has happened before. Even the fall of our civilization is natural and predetermined.
Still, life is short and finite, so we do the best we can. No mud, no lotus. Grind your teeth and get back in line with this cosmic program. Nothing is free, yet only freedom exists.
We pay a price only because we do not see the truth of reality. Flowing with joy would be wonderful, but nature experiences all kinds of feelings through us. Who are we to oppose it?

 

[blig-blug]

Seeing it here, its feels like we are all being lead down an orchestrated path towards some truly horrible politics here in the UK and the wider world.

As a reminder: discussion of politics is not allowed in the Nexus, outside of the politics channel in the chat. Topics of either a political nature or with a political side are allowed, this thread is an example of it. But the discussion should stay away from directly discussing politics. I'm just reminding you early to prevent the possibility of it devolving into a political conversation

 

[TransistorBass]

As a reminder: discussion of politics is not allowed in the Nexus, outside of the politics channel in the chat. Topics of either a political nature or with a political side are allowed, this thread is an example of it. But the discussion should stay away from directly discussing politics. I'm just reminding you early to prevent the possibility of it devolving into a political conversation

Fair enough. I was specific in my words and did not choose sides.

I'd still find it hard to see past the shit-storm that are world leaders in the context of Freedom & Modern Systems of Control. Like they ARE our modern control systems.
I'll DM you about something I said in another thread.

 

[blig-blug]

@TransistorBass , it's not that you comment was "bad" in any general sense. Just not allowed by the rules of the Nexus since 2022. So don't worry, I'm not accusing you of anything. But the topic can't be discussed in the Nexus, at least not directly. So

I'd still find it hard to see past the shit-storm that are world leaders in the context of Freedom & Modern Systems of Control. Like they ARE our modern control systems.

I don't think there is any problem with that idea, but it can't be discussed in political terms here. The rule exists to prevent polarization and division in the Nexus, not because there's anything wrong about discussing politics in itself.

 

[fink]

Does anyone have an idea how we feed 8 billion people (every day, year after year) if we did collapse the system?

I mean, we could start with some sort of barter system maybe. But we would have to evolve onto the currency road at some point. Then everyone could do different useful things in return for currency to buy food.

Obviously the people making the food get paid.

Different regions would trade different food products. Maybe by boat. All over the world, day after day.

As long as everyone plays fair it should work out just fine.

If some people did try to cheat the system, it's ok, we can form the regional into co-operatives. Then any threat to the food or money would be dealt with by the combined strength of each region.

Then the system would work, surely.

We could then elect a team of the best presented humans to manage each region. They would have the ability to call the region to arms, they would coordinate the distribution of the food and money. Might even have time to produce and seek some toys too! Now survival is taken care of.

It would work. We put that system in place very carefully. Then once it is established we can probably just forget about it for a bunch of generations. Just let it run itself. It's a flawless system. It cannot fail.

 

[northape]

Does anyone have an idea how we feed 8 billion people (every day, year after year) if we did collapse the system?

I mean, we could start with some sort of barter system maybe. But we would have to evolve onto the currency road at some point. Then everyone could do different useful things in return for currency to buy food.

Obviously the people making the food get paid.

Different regions would trade different food products. Maybe by boat. All over the world, day after day.

As long as everyone plays fair it should work out just fine.

If some people did try to cheat the system, it's ok, we can form the regional into co-operatives. Then any threat to the food or money would be dealt with by the combined strength of each region.

Then the system would work, surely.

We could then elect a team of the best presented humans to manage each region. They would have the ability to call the region to arms, they would coordinate the distribution of the food and money. Might even have time to produce and seek some toys too! Now survival is taken care of.

It would work. We put that system in place very carefully. Then once it is established we can probably just forget about it for a bunch of generations. Just let it run itself. It's a flawless system. It cannot fail.

Isn't that how we found ourselves here? You have a superb sense of humor

EDIT: Honestly, we are the problem. Fixing our shortsightedness and greed takes precedence. Why do you think education is declining worldwide?

 

[blig-blug]

Does anyone have an idea how we feed 8 billion people (every day, year after year) if we did collapse the system?

I mean, we could start with some sort of barter system maybe. But we would have to evolve onto the currency road at some point. Then everyone could do different useful things in return for currency to buy food.

Obviously the people making the food get paid.

Different regions would trade different food products. Maybe by boat. All over the world, day after day.

As long as everyone plays fair it should work out just fine.

If some people did try to cheat the system, it's ok, we can form the regional into co-operatives. Then any threat to the food or money would be dealt with by the combined strength of each region.

Then the system would work, surely.

We could then elect a team of the best presented humans to manage each region. They would have the ability to call the region to arms, they would coordinate the distribution of the food and money. Might even have time to produce and seek some toys too! Now survival is taken care of.

It would work. We put that system in place very carefully. Then once it is established we can probably just forget about it for a bunch of generations. Just let it run itself. It's a flawless system. It cannot fail.

But this is actually a fantasy, like when the 18th century philosophers speculated about individuals in desert islands to deduce "facts" about humanity. In reality, humanity has managed to mostly feed itself for the immense majority of the million years of human life without any of that. Only in the last few thousands did we start going down the current path (whether that path is considered good or bad), and for most of those it only affected part of humanity. So the current state of affairs is far from unavoidable, and stories that trace its roots to barter and organization amongst individuals are just that, stories.
There is plenty of evidence about how humanity has gotten here.

 

[fink]

But this is actually a fantasy, like when the 18th century philosophers speculated about individuals in desert islands to deduce "facts" about humanity. In reality, humanity has managed to mostly feed itself for the immense majority of the million years of human life without any of that. Only in the last few thousands did we start going down the current path (whether that path is considered good or bad), and for most of those it only affected part of humanity. So the current state of affairs is far from unavoidable, and stories that trace its roots to barter and organization amongst individuals are just that, stories.
There is plenty of evidence about how humanity has gotten here.

Quite right Blig. Oh man, the vision in my head of how humanity could vertical farm all our food in huge, outrageously beautiful, glass skyscrapers.

All heavy industry done in low earth orbit.

A pristine, natural planet being lived on efficiently. You're absolutely right, it is feasible to feed us all if we weren't such a terminal bunch of dickheads.

 

[blig-blug]

it is feasible to feed us all

With 8 billion, sadly I'm not that sure. That's why I'm so hesitant to advocate for the dismantling of the whole system, even though I personally think it's dangerous for humanity. Who has the right to claim that billions should die?

if we weren't such a terminal bunch of dickheads

There we fully agree. I am often one too, even trying not to.

 

[northape]

Quite right Blig. Oh man, the vision in my head of how humanity could vertical farm all our food in huge, outrageously beautiful, glass skyscrapers.

All heavy industry done in low earth orbit.

A pristine, natural planet being lived on efficiently. You're absolutely right, it is feasible to feed us all if we weren't such a terminal bunch of dickheads.

A dream to die for, and I would do it. I see no progress on this front, though - just a bunch of self-important schmucks playing God.
Look at this massive dick rocket and go back to work:

 

[Varallo]

Does anyone have an idea how we feed 8 billion people (every day, year after year) if we did collapse the system?

I mean, we could start with some sort of barter system maybe. But we would have to evolve onto the currency road at some point. Then everyone could do different useful things in return for currency to buy food.

Obviously the people making the food get paid.

Different regions would trade different food products. Maybe by boat. All over the world, day after day.

As long as everyone plays fair it should work out just fine.

If some people did try to cheat the system, it's ok, we can form the regional into co-operatives. Then any threat to the food or money would be dealt with by the combined strength of each region.

Then the system would work, surely.

We could then elect a team of the best presented humans to manage each region. They would have the ability to call the region to arms, they would coordinate the distribution of the food and money. Might even have time to produce and seek some toys too! Now survival is taken care of.

It would work. We put that system in place very carefully. Then once it is established we can probably just forget about it for a bunch of generations. Just let it run itself. It's a flawless system. It cannot fail.

Il share this lovely article on commons and how we could strive for a better future, the ideas of Kees are very much in line with my personal beliefs and I suspect your ideas too. Hopefully we can all get to see a future that is better and more sustainable for everyone and everything. I mean the collapse of the Roman Empire took 100 years, our collapse has been going on for some time now.

Kees Klomp: "It’s time to relearn how to think as Earth citizens"

“We need to rebuild the economy based on the universal ecological principles that have governed life for nearly four billion years”, says Kees Klomp.

re-generation.cc

Edit: On reflection, I can see that this post is too political. While I suspect that most people here would not be offended by it, that assumption is influenced by my own bias. By posting this, I also realize that I may be undermining the very recent and necessary point about the political nature, and how that is not allowed, of some posts.

My apologies.

 

[fink]

Il share this lovely article on commons and how we could strive for a better future, the ideas of Kees are very much in line with my personal beliefs and I suspect your ideas too. Hopefully we can all get to see a future that is better and more sustainable for everyone and everything. I mean the collapse of the Roman Empire took 100 years, our collapse has been going on for some time now.

Kees Klomp: "It’s time to relearn how to think as Earth citizens"

“We need to rebuild the economy based on the universal ecological principles that have governed life for nearly four billion years”, says Kees Klomp.

re-generation.cc

Thank you for that. It helps to push me towards positivity when I see eminent humans advocating these things publicly.

As dry as I may be in many discussions, my only desire for humanity is completely in line with Kees.

 

[blig-blug]

As dry as I may be in many discussions

More than dry, I would say provocative, but not in a negative sense. Often your posts are somewhat cryptic or ambiguous in ways that make other people think about their own ideas in order to reply, and move the conversation forward (except when I got caught in a stupid loop of misunderstanding ). That's very valuable.

 

[fink]

Ah, thank you for the positive words there my friend. I appreciated us bouncing back and forth in a civil manner.

 

[LuxObscura]

Does anyone have an idea how we feed 8 billion people (every day, year after year) if we did collapse the system?

A collapse is not always the only possible incidence.
But how 8 billion people could be fed is a question if we consider automation.
I belive the technilogy is already there to implement it into the system.
The problem is exactly the qustion you mentioned, how to feed the people who are replaced by machines.
And there is a systemic, social and cimmunal resistence.
I think there is currently no solution to this.
But at the same time I also think that automatation is not "bad".

If jobs are replaced by machines and the system still claims the money for that replaced position and uses it to feed people, it could be a solution.
But the problem is that everyone wants to spare money or wants more money.
And companies are not willing to pay the same amouth.
So there is also a cooparate resistance.
Although it really does not make much sense because there would be an imoprovement with automamtation.
But companies think why should I automate something when I would have to still pay the same amounth.

Then what should the people who are replaced do?
Maybe maintain the machines?

But everything I wrote creates a new branch/train of thoughts.