~MDMA~

[The Day Tripper]

The position of mescaline on that chart confuses me.

Yeah i don't buy it either, I've read The LD50 for mescaline has been established in the range of 800-1200mg/kg orally, from multiple sources on the web. Thats like 50g+ for most people. But theres also a report the military shot someone up with 15g mescaline intravenously and he died :shock: :roll: . They did some pretty terrible things with these compounds to human subjects, and that could be the source of some of these misinformed "lethal doses". Like if they were comparing the 15g intravenous dose to a 600mg oral effective dose that would make sense even though flat out wrong.

 

[Untm]

You mean Flunitrazepam? I've never heard of Rohypnol before, sorry if I came off rude; the study just seems biased thats all.

 

[Sky Motion]

Yeah I'm going to have to agree with others and say that the chart posted does not look official or documented or true in any way. Who would refer to MDMA as ecstacy? We're not talking about pressed pills here for raves, I'm talking pure shards.

 

[The Day Tripper]

Yeah I'm going to have to agree with others and say that the chart posted does not look official or documented or true in any way. Who would refer to MDMA as ecstacy? We're not talking about pressed pills here for raves, I'm talking pure shards.

Totally. But ironically, it seems that the point its trying to make could be made even better if the substances had correct ed50/ld50 ratios. If that's even possible, I'm sure they don't have values for humans for many of those substances, and are going off of math based on rats and other lower mammals. LD50 is impossible to calculate in man, being that people are not being lethally dosed with these substances in a clinically controlled environment.

To include anecdotal doses that caused death however, still does not help much as everyone's different biochem, the purity of said substance, and the health of whoever took it all come in to play. So charts like that, that claim ed50/ld50 ratios should be considered theoretical at best, and even then always check the sources of the research and exactly how they went about getting those numbers. You'd think NORML would have their shit in order, but mabey not.

 

[Untm]

If that's even possible, I'm sure they don't have values for humans for many of those substances, and are going off of math based on rats and other lower mammals. LD50 is impossible to calculate in man, being that people are not being lethally dosed with these substances in a clinically controlled environment.

To include anecdotal doses that caused death however, still does not help much as everyone's different biochem, the purity of said substance, and the health of whoever took it all come in to play. So charts like that, that claim ed50/ld50 ratios should be considered theoretical at best,

My point exactly; I enjoy NORML's work but I just get the feeling a pro-cannabis biased is hidden in this 'research'.

Not that I have a problem with cannabis or any drug, I just like accurate studies.

 

[Parshvik Chintan]

My point exactly; I enjoy NORML's work but I just get the feeling a pro-cannabis biased is hidden in this 'research'.

Not that I have a problem with cannabis or any drug, I just like accurate studies.

the only thing i know definitively, is that they have done much more research than i

 

[Untm]

No doubt they have done much more work than myself as well.