Medicated children

[hug46]

I saw the above link last night and to be honest i found it quite heartbreaking. I don"t know much about ADHD and stuff like that. I grew up in the uk in the 1970s and if we got out of hand we"d get a clip round the ear (i"m not saying that this helps develop well rounded human beings).
Does anyone have an opinion on medicating young children. Or experiences of being chemically koshed/adjusted, and how it has developed for you on a personal level.

 

[cyb]

I grew up in the uk in the 1970s and if we got out of hand we"d get a clip round the ear

I got caned but a large Nun with a moustache...didn't do me any harm...except to make me question religion aged 5

 

[hug46]

I got caned but a large Nun with a moustache...didn't do me any harm...except to make me question religion aged 5

Which aint a bad thing in itself (the questioning). There are some folk who"d pay good money to be caned by a moustachioed nun but it seems to me if you started questioning things nowadays as a 5 year old they"d probly put you on drugs. I feel a Philip Larkin poem coming on again.

 

[Enoon]

My sister's kid has ADHD and apparently made a lot of trouble. I don't know him so well so I can't judge but everyone that had to deal with him said he was pretty exhausting to handle. He was 7 or 8 when they started medicating him and the first round of medication lost its effect after a while so they switched to another one that made him look like a meth-head. He lost a lot of weight and started getting ticks.

Finally they decided to try without medication again and just a lot of affection and attention. Because of his hyperactivity he doesn't have many friends in school and finds it hard to socialize. He actually liked the first medication he got because it made him calmer and he could interact in a more "normal" way, but I guess looking like a zombie wasn't so cool for him either.

I find it very hard to say how to respond to these kids. It's very easy to say "I would not give medication to a small child" if you don't have one or don't know how tiring it can be if your kid just doesn'T stop running around. Especially if both parents are working or there are more kids etc. I don't believe in this kind of medication and would definitely look for alternatives, which I'm glad my sister also decided. But from what I've heard of their situation I can also understand how desperate they were with him, and how he actually welcomed the medication. It's a tricky situation.

I think the problem with this syndrom/disorder is that it is not very well defined and it's not really a "sickness" in such. It's just pronounced hyperactivity and problematic behavior. At some point they call it ADHD or ADS. This means there's also no real way to treat it or "cure" it - just ways to make it more bareable for the people around you. And that's quite the horrible way to see it.

What psychologists against medication suggest seems to be giving the kid time, attention and affection. Something which apparently is hard to come by sometimes. And what do you do in the mean time with the kid that can't sit still in class? The teacher doesn't have time or attention if there are 30 kids in the room. Of course they are going to suggest medication or a "special" school. ...

 

[Ilex]

It doesn't work in all cases, but a lot of success can be had by shifting diet (esp. reducing the amount of sugars and processed foods in the diet, and replacing them with whole foods/grains instead). Also some herbs can help, like Reishi mushroom, Schizandra berry, Rhodiola or Gynostemma, all of which can enhance focus and calmness (and don't have the side effects of conventional stimulant medications prescribed for ADHD).

 

[Aegle]

Treating children through medication regarding for example ADHD isn't the most productive way forward in my opinion. There are natural alternatives as Ilex mentioned as changing the child's diet or using natural herbs or botanicals. If you give a child medication for ADHD you are only treating the surface behavioral symptoms and not the true root causes of their condition.

It is never a wise decision in my opinion to give children medication of this nature as their brain is still developing and maturing and most doctors I have spoken to openly admit that they aren't really sure of all the long term negative effects that medications of this nature have on children.

I saw parents giving their children Ritalin when I was working with kids and most of these children were incredibly bright but seemed completely and utterly bored within the school system so they acted out on being disillusioned. The consequences of their actions was being prescribed high scheduled medication to make the situation more manageable for the parents, with little care or concern as to what would be the most constructive and least harmful way to address the situation with the child.

My little cousin also has very high energy levels but my aunt chose to encourage him to get involved in sport activities within his school program and now his grades are up and he is excelling with his sport activities. There are always other options and alternatives you don't have to medicate children in this manner.


Much Peace and Happiness

 

[imPsimon]

I think the term ADHD is not very well defined, kinda like schizophrenia.
Medicating kids who have been diagnosed with ADHD might not always be the best solution but
often the most convenient one.
These hyperactive qualities might be incredibly advantageous to the person if channeled right but
more often then not, clashes with the school model we still have which is built
on the "industrial revolution".

At 15.20 into this video Ken Robins tells a wonderful "ADHD-story" (although I strongly suggest listening
to the whole lecture)

Sir Ken Robinson: Do schools kill creativity?
[YOUTUBE]

 

[universecannon]

funny..i was just reading something earlier today on how in some ways ritalin/aderral and cocaine have identical effects on the brain..

well said Aegle..theres definitely a lot of other approaches that should be thoroughly explored first IMO. Personally I've seen long term prescriptions of things like ritalin and adderrall do some strange things to some of my friends growing up.

I work with disabled kids and there is definitely something to be said about parents/teachers/society not dealing with it appropriately and exploring several more promising avenues, and the same definitely goes for "ADD"/"ADHD". In reality we don't understand these 'conditions' fully. But I also am fairly convinced at this point that the junk food diet most kids eat these days can often have a lot to do with exasperating these behavioral 'issues'

There was actually a case where this school for children with behavioral/learning disabilities did an experimental change in their cafeteria, and switched from basically the typical junk food filled insanity of a standard american school lunchroom to a much cleaner and more natural array of foods. They removed the soda/chip vending machines etc as well. Some said they literally noticed a change in the students over night, and behavioral problems and agressive referrals dropped to basically zero. The kids were less wired, much more calm, able to concentrate, and had less health issues. As an experiment, they revertd back to junk-food for a day to see how that would change behavior, and immediately problems started arising again.. so they quickly abandoned them


anyways thanks for the vid psimon, watching now

 

[tango]

One thing is certain: rx stimulants have profound influences on how the medicated person experiences life, and those parents who like to believe that their kids are just calmer and more productive, with everything else unchanged, should go on a regime of amphetamines themselves.

I'm in no position to judge anyone, but adhd forums are full of posts from parents excited that they just got the perfect solution for fixing their agitated kids, then you scroll to the next section and you get to read the stories of people who were put on stimulants when very young,and how that messed them up big time.

As someone who's taken it as an adult, I'd say that becoming aware of the more subtle changes the medication brings is helpful, but it requires work. Also, randomly mixing it with caffeinated/ sugary stuff (as kids often do) can make the side effects a lot worse.

 

[Parshvik Chintan]

i guess if you need it, it helps.

but me and quite a few friends were "diagnosed" with ADHD and ended up perfectly fine without amphetamine pills.

one of my friends who was perfectly fine before imo turned into a zombie (after like 6 years of ritalin).

another acquaintance of mine ended up being a junkie, switching medication regularly until he found his favorite (desoxyn, aka methamphetamine)

i feel like it is being handled poorly, and these drugs have been too eagerly handed out.

 

[jamie]

"I'm in no position to judge anyone"

I dunno if it means I am arrogant or just judgemental..but I definatly do judge all the people that simply put their little kids on drugs cus some doctor told them it's good cus their kids cant sit still in a classroom etc..

I am glad that when teachers suggested to my mother I be put on drugs( I have no freaking idea why a teacher would suggest this?they are not doctors) that she told them to basically shut it.

 

[Jellyfox]

ADHD and ADD are complete bullshit excuses concocted by Corporations in attempt to turn kid's who are otherwise rebellious, smart, attentive, creative, and enthusiastic into kid's who are blank, dull, thoughtless and completely devoid of critical thinking or creative imagination.

Think about it, the kids with (ADDADHD) don't want to pay attention to teachers, have extra energy and think differently than "normal" kids. That doesn't mean theres anything wrong with them. Kid's don't want to pay attention in school Because 90% of the time the curriculum is complete brainwashing and the "teachers" teaching it are old, mean uncaring people who are unable to come up with interesting lessons to get the kids engaged.

This comes down to a matter of asking yourself is there a problem with my kid? or is there a problem with the common "Normal" population. It's just ridiculious to me to think that because a child is acting out/ talking in class/ full of energy that people automatically think Oh there must be a problem with THAT kid. People should be contemplating the fact that theyre kid is just fine (actually ahead of the curve) and the problem lies in the public school system/society.

I dont want to come off as a Paranoid conspiracy theorist but it's obvious that ADD and ADHD are Completely made up disorders designed by the control system to medicate and debilitate kids before they even have the ability to think for themselves/question authority.

I mean I know hundreds of kids with add/adhd and is it a coincidence that they are the ones most likely to sit down in the face of authority and not question anything?

Those pills in that medicine bottle are fucking poison and they have effects that cannot be undone. I second the post below me, When the doctors came to my parents and said " He's always questioning everything and is unafraid of any authoritative consequence" my parents said BULLSHIT!!!

 

[Parshvik Chintan]

(I have no freaking idea why a teacher would suggest this?they are not doctors)

lmao it was my teacher (and neighboor) who suggested this as well.
i never realized how ludicrous that was until you pointed it out.

"this kid has trouble listening to me babble on about how he is TOTALLY going to use cursive when he grows up - he must have a mental disorder. i recommend amphetamines."

 

[tango]

The medical community should know better. Parents, like most members of society in most situations, simply place their trust in the experts and do what they're told. It's amazing how many people will blindly believe that the same substance (ie. ampthetamines) can be the ultimate evil as the described by the anti-drug warriors, but also perfectly ok for using to calm down their own kids.

I've also seen many articles demonizing the occasional use of rx stimulants by college students, while implying that the constant use by kids was fine as long as they had a script. As for the existence of adhd, while some people naturally have a harder time focusing than their peers, pretty much everyone qualifies. With adhd inattentive type,if you can't focus enough to complete the tasks you have chosen for yourself or were assigned, you're in. Kind of like auditioning for a porno and deciding you have premature ejaculation because you could only go for 1 hr and they wanted you for 1 and 1/2 hrs. If a kid who is seen as doing fine in a more relaxed school environment happened to go to a stricter school, he might have been regarded as a good candidate for medication.

Hopefully, now that most everyone with access to adderall also has access to the internet, more parents and teachers will research these drugs.

 

[Archtypamine]

I got caned but a large Nun with a moustache...didn't do me any harm...except to make me question religion aged 5

Which aint a bad thing in itself (the questioning). There are some folk who"d pay good money to be caned by a moustachioed nun but it seems to me if you started questioning things nowadays as a 5 year old they"d probly put you on drugs. I feel a Philip Larkin poem coming on again.

 

[Archtypamine]

The decision to medicate a child is a parents decision and is a welcome choice if the child is interfering with their own path. I have experienced a child's being suspended from school for hyperactivity and its'affect on normal behavior... the child is angry and takes it out on the teachers and other kids. While maybe a maladjustment/behavior problem I have discovered the powerful drug Adderal has restored her kind and loving demeanor and her grades. Her future was spiraling out of touch until this med was employed. It's unfortunate but necessary. I've not seen the long term effects nor know how the 'addiction factor' will figure in but she was headed for juvenile detention without this intervention.

 

[Jellyfox]

well arch, thats one way of looking at it but it seems that pumping a kid full of adderal is a good way to avoid dealing with the actual problem. I'm sorry to break the Disney bubble of Hunky Dory Earth, but that kid is angry for a reason and has a right to be. So yes, know she functions like a good robot in society due to the drugs suppressing her true feelings, But the catch for that is that you're taking away what makes her unique and special. I know you feel that she is better off not getting into trouble etc. but who knows, maybe she would've had to endure "juvenile detention" or something like that.
But maybe she would've gotten through that Adderall free and grown up to understand why she acted the way she did. Anger is not always a negative thing, sometimes we need anger to push us to important realizations we would have otherwise missed. More important than just deciding that a child is acting out and needs to be medicated, is figuring out why they are acting out in the first place. This is no easy task because kids are often much more intelligent than grown ups (in their own language/way). I sympathize for you though as I cannot speak from direct experience (i dont have a kid).

 

[oldsoul]

Luckily for ADHD there is another option, brainwave biofeedback (neurofeedback).

Efficacy of neurofeedback treatment in ADHD: the effects on inattention, impulsivity and hyperactivity: a meta-analysis - PubMed

Since the first reports of neurofeedback treatment in Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) in 1976, many studies have investigated the effects of neurofeedback on different symptoms of ADHD such as inattention, impulsivity and hyperactivity. This technique is also used by many...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=130896102

I read a book about this awhile back, one of the scientists involved thought that both physical and mental disease both stem from imbalanced brainwaves, and in the future both types of disease will probably be cured with brainwave adjustment. Pretty wild stuff!

They are testing it out on all kinds of other symptoms too, hopefully it catches on. I shudder to think if some of these drugs were available when I was a kid, I would have probably been medicated to hell!!!

 

[Nathanial.Dread]

I think that in most cases, medication should be carefully considered on a case-by-case basis. I know that often schools will press for an ADHD diagnosis to medicate unruly children, and of course the more people are popping pills, the more money the pharmaceutical companies make, but I also know several people who simply cannot function without Ritalin or Vyvanase.

One of my friends in particular stands out: when he is medicated he's quiet, focused and a little despondent, but when he is un-medicated you can hardly talk to him, because every sentence is a new conversation and sometimes he'll just get up and leave you hanging and go running around because he can't keep track of even a three or four minute exchange.

He admits that he couldn't have finished school or gotten into college without a really high dose of Aderall.

Adderal, Ritalin and Vyvanase don't concern me all that much, because (apart form stunted growth) there don't seem to be huge developmental side-effects and most patients seem pretty functional.

What really scares me are children who are put on SSRI's or benzos for anxiety and depression, like I was. I got off them pretty fast, but I have seen kids that I work with who come into camp with absolutely no affect because they've had their emotions surgically removed by the drugs. There's no sense of childhood wonder or joy, or really anything.

If an adult chooses to take those for depression, that's fine, they can do that, but parents who do that to their children are robbing them of an integral experience for emotional development that their children will never get a shot at again.

 

[hixidom]

I work part-time at an elementary school as an after school supervisor/tutor. There are a few kids with ADHD (the ones I know are in kindergarden). Speaking of one child in particular: On days when he is not medicated, he usually gets picked up early due to misbehavior (disobedience, inability to pay attention, running around and sometimes harming other children), while he is academically productive on days when he is medicated. I don't know about creativity, but kids that age simply need to learn how to read small words, write letters, and count to 100. At that age, I think that "creativity" and mental freedom are not important. If they can't sit still and pay attention long enough to learn the basics, then by the time they're old enough to have something meaningful to express, they'll be too illiterate to do so.