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Medications for Deppression?

Migrated topic.
Really guys, depression is not as simple as chaning your thought process, it is just as serious and any other mental disorder!!!

Curing depression is sometimes not as simple as thinking postitively. Clinical depression is a chemical inbalance in the brain. Just like other mental illnesses such as anxiety, OCD, bi-polar, sometimes medications are needed to stabilise the chemicals in the brain. When you are depressed you can't enjoy anything in life at all because you lack the chemicals in your brain which create enjoyment. It's not as simple as changing your thought processes, when you can't enjoy anything at all it doesn't matter whether you are thinking about it positively or negatively. It's like trying to tell someone with any other chemical inbalance like anxiety, bi-polar even schizophrenia, if you change your thought process it will go away. Anti-depressants or SSRIs cause your brain to produce more of those chemicals needed to create enjoyment. This is not always the case though, i'm justing pointing out depression can be pretty serious and I do think anti-depressants can be pretty helpful in bailing someone out.

I've suffered from depression for a few years, and at one point was forced onto anti-depressants by my parents. IMO my depression was caused by all the stress going on in my home environment, and since that stress has dissapeared I slowly got better. While I was under all that stress I was extremely depressed, I can't begin to explain how serious of a disorder this can be. In the same way a stressful home environment can create anxiety disorders it can create depression. I can see how SSRIs could certainly help some people, but the zombie like feeling they gave me was not worth it. I rathered experiencing the depression just to have those moments of enjoyment which I could not experience on SSRIs. But if someone is seriously depressed 24/7 they could certainly help alot. I stopped taking the SSRIs pretty abruptly and went through some shitty withdrawals. Even without all the stress going on I still suffer from repurcussions, small amounts of stress in life can sometimes just set it off and it can be really hard some days. I'm still fighting it but with experience it's getting easier to overcome.
 
Sorry Mardybum but I'm not buying it.

I think your believeing that you had something wrong with your brain led you to think that drugs were you only way out and that there was something "wrong" with you. When really, you just needed to change your thought processes.

It's like trying to tell someone with any other chemical inbalance like anxiety,
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You really have no idea what your talking about do you? Axiety is a chemical imbalance now?
 
No I meant mental disorder such as anxiety, where thought processes do not change certain reactions in the brain.

Were did I say I thought drugs were my only way out? I never believed something was wrong with me until I was not suffering from depression anymore, and could see how much my mindset changed. I never freed myself from depression by thinking positively, but changing to an unstressful environment. With experience and understanding I can see what sets depression off, and I don't think you should make such bold statements without experiencing it first hand.

A person who does not suffer from depression could take anti-depressants and not experience any change. However a person suffering from depression would.
 
If you read the thread you would know that I have struggled with depression and axiety attacks, SERIOUS axiety attacks.
 
I was talking about depression, and I still don't see where you wrote about your depression. I am talking about serious depression, the type of depression that makes one want to die to escape the suffering of everyday life.

On that note I had an anxiety disorder for a short period of my life and after a shroom experience I was able to change my thought process towards it and I did not suffer from it anymore.
 
[quote='Coatl]Sorry Mardybum but I'm not buying it.

I think your believeing that you had something wrong with your brain led you to think that drugs were you only way out and that there was something "wrong" with you. When really, you just needed to change your thought processes.[/quote]

I'm not buying it either.

I don't believe it for a second. People get depressed and want to blame it something other them themselves and so they choose to believe its a disorder so they can feel good about medicating themselves out of their problems.

I know several people suffering from long term depression (a few are relatives) and all of them cause it by thinking negative things all the time and I’ve tried telling them to stop and they say “I’m suffering from a disorder. I can’t stop”. I have a one word response to that, “bullshit!” I’ve seen others with the exact same problems get out of it on their own without drugs by simply thinking themselves out of it with mind power. It can be done. There are many people who have done it. So, no I don’t buy it! Not for a second.
 
i agree it can be done but this is not always the case. their are forms of depression which aren't curable by a change in thought processes

how about you try going on an ecstasy binge which would leave your dopamine depleted afterwards and see if positive thinking will change how you feel the day after

even try smoking a gram of hydro weed in a night and see how much you enjoy your favourite hobby over the next two days.

if depression is merely a way of thinking then why dont SSRIs affect people without depression

when i was depressed i would go surfing and do a really good turn and i didnt even feel good afterwards. or when i went skateboarding id land a trick and i would still feel shit. now when i surf and do a good turn, or skate and land a trick it leaves me euphoric and buzzed, almost like im high.

do you think an illness like bipolar can be changed with positive thinking? these people cycle through depressive and manic episodes. if it was merely about their thought process why would they have such high and lows
 
Seriously, I know quite a few people who depression had ruined their lives, myself included. A boost of something was needed in order to be able to even think about changing the thought process.

Saying that nothing but thought can change serious acute depression is a little short sighted. I would probably be dead from suicide if I hadn't found MJ. Yes it was a quick fix, a quick escape, but it was enough for me to be able to survive until my crazy hormones of teenagedom had calmed down. I was fine as soon as I hit 17/18. Before then thought-therapy just wasn't an option.

I think what some of you might be missing is that once someone goes down the dark hole of depression it may take an outside influence before one can even think rationally.

I think you all are being quite harsh on mardybum.
 
do you think an illness like bipolar can be changed with positive thinking? these people cycle through depressive and manic episodes. if it was merely about their thought process why would they have such high and lows
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Because they have trained themselves to believe that! It's amazing what the mind can do!

When I had my axiety attacks I would freak out, start sweating, heart rate would go up... now was there anything wrong with me? No, I was just freaking out and all I had to do to stop it was... well... stop freaking out.
 
The positive side of this discussion is that we are being reminded here of the, indeed incredible power of as well positive as negative thinking. It is a good thing to, in our daily lives be aware of this.
If something happens that would normally upset you and you try to look at it from another angle that is more positive, you WILL most definatly feel much better at the end of the day, then if you wouldn't do this.

Still, there are people who are no longer able to do this. Antidepressants are absolutelt being proscribed too often to people who realy don't need them. The P.R. machinery that accompanied the commercial launch of prozac is indeed an example of healthcare being commerrcialized too far.
But i know a girl who had a history of sexual abuse and other most unpleasant things. She has been going through hell, totally numbed by her own brain, no longer capable of doing ANYTHING.
It took her years of strugle AND medication (with serious, very disturbing side effects)to come out of this. One and a half year ago she quitted with the citalopram and fortunately she is doing fine now. All these years of pain have learnt her to apreciate the good things in live, so it is not a flaw in her character that didn't allow her to look at things from the bright side.
Things like (sexual) violence can put a strain on people. For people who dismiss these kind of stories, saying that there are also people who have suffered from the same things and never needed any pills, i would say: 'you are VERY lucky that apparently you have not the slightest idea of how totally nervewracking some traumatic experiences can be'.
We don't expect people suffering from schizofrenia to 'think themselves normal and healthy' again, too. And some kind of depressive disorders are not less severe then something like schizofrenia.
The distinction between a severe psychiatric disorder and just not feeling well is sometimes hard to make. Especially with the borderline cases.
But if you have ever known someone who suffered from annorexia, for instance, you know that it is very clear that there realy is something wrong with these peoples brain. I knew a girl who still felt she had to loose weight, when she already was looking like a corpse. You couldn't reason with her. That was just not possible anymore.
 
In the 1 in a million situation that somebody actually NEEDS drugs (which I believe is rare) I'd first attempt to treat them with Ayahuasca and Lophophora and I'd compeletly remove them from the negative enviroment.

How does it make sense to be abused, but get drugged up so your happy about being abused! Get the fuck outta there!

But if you have ever known someone who suffered from annorexia, for instance, you know that it is very clear that there realy is something wrong with these peoples brain. I knew a girl who still felt she had to loose weight, when she already was looking like a corpse. You couldn't reason with her. That was just not possible anymore.
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That how I was dude! I has post tramtic stress disorder from eating like 5g of mushrooms (Pan. Subbs) which I picked off the side of the road! I ate 5 grams! and FREAKED!

I wasn't right for over 8 months after that trip, and I was wreck! I did eventually use Rholdia rosea which helped me alot, but I only took it for a few weeks. I suppose my point is that its not that people don't need some help getting out of a funk, it that they don't need fucking xanex or some crazy intense drug like that, Kanna will work fine. :)
 
Depression is manifested by low amounts of serotonin in the brain thats the main biochemical system involved. now some people may be genetically predisposed to this condition and medication is one way to increase your seretonin. some people may be near suicide and medication can help the depression. but the only way these medications or anything can cure depression is by making some changes in the connections in your brain and also possibily in the diet. your brain does change by learning new ways to think. now just thinking happy thoughts isn't going to make depression go away. its much more involved then that and can take years.

SWIM will share his story to make the case. SWIM was diagnosed with obsessive compulsive disorder when he was young and was told their is medication that might help. SWIM was young and naive and so tried it out. the medication very much changed SWIM attitude he became way more out going and hyperactive but the side effects and the personality changes disturbed SWIM. one side effect being feinting flat out randomly! a bit severe. so SWIM got off the medication and continued dealing with his compulsions with simply behavioral exercises which worked! but then SWIM got a new problem. his brain suddenly stopped within a period of suspending the medication making SWIM feel good. for the next few years SWIM was what could be considered very depressed but nothing was wrong in SWIMS life. SWIM to this day is convinced the medication being administered to his young mind caused this later condition. so the danger in administering these compounds is rather clear.

so SWIMs brain without drugs (litttle LSD sessions helped too) was able to get over his condition which was a result of some chemical inbalance without taking SSRI. SWIM also got over his depression just by the same methods. thinking differently taking psychedelics to help rewire stuff and lifestyle changes. it worked without any of the disasterous side effects SWIM experienced with SSRI and SWIM now leads a very happy fulfilling life. hope someone can benefit from this story. it wasn't always easy but it is doable.

SWIM is just trying to say that it is possible to change the biochemistry of your body in such a way as to actually cure the condition not just treat the symptoms.
 
(Edit- Whoops, I misread something!)

Read "The Universe in a Single Atom".

Try Iboga, Peyote or Ayahuasca for polishing up that brain like new! Look at their pharmacological effects if you don't believe me! Look at the studies!
 
wtf? there is a ton of biological evidence that the brain forms new nerve connections by learning. the brain exhibits high plasticity. i am in no way discounting the pharmacological effects of ayahuasca or other psychedelics on the brain. what i said is not bullshit.

also note that these experiences and drugs may be helping the brain to form new connections and "learn" is it the chicken or the egg remains in question.

"Neuroplasticity (variously referred to as brain plasticity, cortical plasticity or cortical re-mapping) refers to the changes that occur in the organization of the brain as a result of experience. "
 
so SWIM got off the medication and continued dealing with his compulsions with simply behavioral exercises which worked! but then SWIM got a new problem. his brain suddenly stopped within a period of suspending the medication making SWIM feel good. for the next few years SWIM was what could be considered very depressed but nothing was wrong in SWIMS life. SWIM to this day is convinced the medication being administered to his young mind caused this later condition. so the danger in administering these compounds is rather clear.
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A problem with these SSRI's is the "withdrawl" period where one becomes depressed again (and other unpleasant changes in personality) while the brain tries to fix the damaged receptors (they shrink due to the SSRI's, the same way that an opiate addict's endorphin receptors shrink). SSRI's are really not the best answer for depression, that much I completely agree on... I think they are poison.
 
acolon_5 said:
Seriously, I know quite a few people who depression had ruined their lives, myself included. A boost of something was needed in order to be able to even think about changing the thought process.

Saying that nothing but thought can change serious acute depression is a little short sighted. I would probably be dead from suicide if I hadn't found MJ. Yes it was a quick fix, a quick escape, but it was enough for me to be able to survive until my crazy hormones of teenagedom had calmed down. I was fine as soon as I hit 17/18. Before then thought-therapy just wasn't an option.

I think what some of you might be missing is that once someone goes down the dark hole of depression it may take an outside influence before one can even think rationally.

I think you all are being quite harsh on mardybum.
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For some people, MJ will make things worse. For others it does miracles. I think with antidepressants it might be the same. Most antidepressants have, when you start taking them, a period where they do not work, or make you feel worse. The suicides commited on antidepressants are in 99% of the cases commited within the first month of taking them, where haven't yet improved or contributed to anything, but the side-effects are very noticeable. In time, this changes and when they start to have effect, peoples conditions change while the side-effects become less and sometimes even totally vanish.
Nevertheless, i'm glad that you got out of your depression. I wouldn't recommend people who're depressed, smoking cannabis, but it's a good thing that it helped you out. It's a good thing that you're here with us and you didn't kill yourself.
 
I wouldn't recommend they try smoking cannabis ethier if they are depressed. I'd say first try entheogens, then move onto natural anti-depressants like Kanna and Kava if that doesn't work!
 
[quote='Coatl]I wouldn't recommend they try smoking cannabis ethier if they are depressed. I'd say first try entheogens, then move onto natural anti-depressants like Kanna and Kava if that doesn't work![/quote]

Yeah. I don't have depressive tendencies, but in the days i was a stoney, i was so totally passive and lazy, all the time. Days went by that i really didn't do anything usefull.
Oh, how my teachers at school must have hated me back in those days.:roll:
 
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