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Medications for Deppression?

Migrated topic.

'Coatl

Teotzlcoatl
I don't mean to sound harsh but I've had my times of depression in the past and I just dealt with it and made it pass by thinking positive things. I never thought of using "feel good" drugs to solve it. I think this nonsense about people thinking they need drugs because they are depressed is ridiculous!

Spilled over from the THH thread...

Let's discuss!
 
I agree with ron on this. Depression can be solved by positive thinking and positive experiences. The brain learns to feel good more then bad and vice versa. The brain can make new connections to accomodate what one learns. Feel good drugs can allow the person to go on with their depressed ways except they feel better but with no real reason for it. Learning is the cure to depression.
 
Very ridiculous indeed! I don't even take painkillers when it hurts. In my opinion painkillers are for pain which is so bad that you would rather kill yourself than stand it any longer. That is real pain. Any pain which doesn't bring up the thought of committing suicide is not real pain.

Same goes for depression. As long as its not so bad that it makes you think of committing suicide it doesn't need any medical care. If however the depression reaches a point in which it could be harmful to either yourself or others around you.. that might be the point to take the problem to a psychiatrist.

Meds are for wussies :)

My Grandfather had his leg amputated without Morphine because he was in the field and medical supplies were running low! All he had was a stick to chew on.

Also the side effects of a lot of Pharma crap usually gets rid of the first problem. But then there are all those new problems coming from the meds themselves.

My father has really bad Migranes. The meds he gets from his doctor make him feel like shit. The meds however which he is given by me (mushroom extract in capsules) doesn't produce any more side effects other than a big YAWN here and there. But one must keep in mind that these meds are ILLEGAL.

It has been a known fact for a long time now that psilocybin cures migranes. I think it's more than a crime to have all these people take all those crap meds which don't really help at all. My dad always says.. well.. the pain isnt that bad anymore. But all the other effects are supposed to be just as bad. The question he is asking himself when he takes those meds is if its better to puke from the pain or to puke from the nausea of the meds.

Since i had given him the first REAL medicine for his problem he hasn't touched his other crap. Plus he says that he feels like the seizures come on less harsh since he's been under my treatment.

FUCK PHARMA CRAP! AND FUCK THOSE BIG COMPANIES WHO MADE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS OFF THE MEDS DEVELOPED FROM THE CURARE STOLEN FROM THE INDIANS BY WHITE MEN! not only have those indians never seen a dollar that has been made off them but on top we even chop up their rainforest and make expensive furniture out of it.

just thinking about it makes me sick!
 
we live in a pharma world. why be the same everyday? where is the fun in that :)

on another note, feel good drugs are nice when you are feeling down but not if it becomes a self medicating ritual. Cappi is one amazing creation :)
 
Caapi, Maca Root, Ayahuasca, Cat's Claw, Aswaganda, Kava, have all been helpful in getting out of the dumps.

I don't agree that depression can always be fixed by just using your mind. Some depression is truly a chemical imbalance, some depression is just dangerous.
 
yeah thats right.. but chemical imbalance depressions are usually chronic as well. People suffering from chronic depression should seek medical care! But usually chemical imbalance can also be fixed just by pure thought. Chemical imbalance also has its source. It might just be that a person didn't sleep well last night.. that could be seen as a form of chemical imbalance also.

Chronic chemical imbalance.. now thats another thing!
 
I think it just goes to show how tight of a grip big business (the Pharm-companys) controlls society, they actually make people believe this shit is good for them!!!
 
very good points.. i think a moderation of pills/remedies would be key, just all depends...
Its best to work things out mentally right away, maybe try working it out in a bad mood, then in a good mood, note the differences & do what you need to..

I like taking a more natural approach:

-Kava pills, 5-htp, l-theanine, dmae(more of a concetration)

-Damiana, metroprolol(anxiety), dhea

*also ive found that smoking a hit or more of dmt that day or before going out,
ive noticed better concetration, better mood, & better social interaction.
Like it clears my nueral pathways..
 
Even though I feel that most of the modern medications (i.e. those manufactured and provided by pharmaceutical companies) are dishonest, I see not much diference between using some commercial medication to e.g. ease depression or pain and using a herb or similar.

So to speak, the vast majority of modern medication have their roots in herbalism. The first pills were actually extracts from plants. But things today with modern pharmaceutical companies are certainly out of control.

Most of us tend to resort to more-or-less "induced" ways to enhance/aid/change/affect our current states. Whether it is a cup of coffee or tea to energise us or some manufactured morphine to ease pain, it makes not big difference.
 
Some people do need things to help them get out the hole their in and the quote being discussed isnt fair. Just because they have had some depression and they managed to think it away doesnt mean that works for everyone else. I think everyone at some point in their lives have to some degree had their time of depression some more than others and some like my girlfriend have had it chronically in the past, shes off prozac and occasionally uses cappi, think thats really helped her.

Personally im totally against prozac and the like their just emotion suppresants that doesnt deal with anything, unlike cappi. But in the past my g/f really did need things like that to help her, so it isnt nonsense people needing drugs because they are depressed, maybe for me or the person talking in the quote but not everyone is the same. Ive heard the saying "your your own best psychiatrist" and that works for me with depression but not everyone.
 
I know people who really benefitted from antidepressants. Many pharmaceuticals have similar effects as known herbal remedies like st-jonsworth. Those herbal remedies are becoming more and more accepted and i have heard of just regular-mainstream western-pharmacy doctors proscribing them, instead of the often heavier chemical medications.
The list of medicines, developped to treat the hole range of depressive disorders is very long. This is becausse more and more people are diagnosed with all kinds of depressive dissorders and these depressive dissorders go from very serious to slight discomfort. Many people never see a shrink and go self medicating, wich often means they will seek refuge in booze, cannabis, opiates or stimulants.
Some people depend too much on pharmaceuticals or take strips of aspirin for every little pain. But there is also a group of people who tend to see a doctor, only when their troubles have risen to such a degree that it's no longer possible to fool themselves, thinking they don't need anybody's help. a certain scepricism towards pharmaceuicals can be healthy, but don't exagerate it.
Americans are known for their love of all kinds of medication. On the one hand they give every over-active child ton's of ritalin, wich is bad. On the other hand, america was the first place where pregnant women where systematically recomended to take folic acid, where europeans for a decade where very sceptical. Too sceptical, becausse in those ten years many serious abnormality's that are very painfull, could have very well been prevented.
 
I know people hooked on antidepressants who need to stop but can't.

I think taking "feel good" drugs to get out of being depressed is not a good thing at all. I know some doctors who also think the same thing and would like to see antidepressants classified as euphorients and not prescribed for people suffering from depression.

I don't accept the idea that "feel good" drugs are an answer to depression. Depression is a mental illness causes by improper use of the brain. The only way to cure it is to fix the source, the brain. Taking "feel good" drugs to hide it is dangerous.

As time goes on, more and more people are using these things. Many people go to their doctor and say, "I haven't been feeling myself recently. I'm so tired of life". The doctor then prescribes some new antidepressant. The patient gets hooked. There problem gets worse. Then they come to their doctor and say, "Doc, these pills are not working anymore. I need something stronger. Got anything else to help me shake my blues?" The doctor then prescribes a newer strong more dangerous antidepressant. Eventually the user is suffering from multiple problems caused by the medications and now needs more medications to fix the problems caused by the other medication. Eventually they are taking three or more medications a day. Spending hundreds of dollars a month on it. The pharmaceutical companies are getting rich of it. Mean while the patients depression has actually passed, but he's now addicted to the drugs, so he needs them to feel normal. He's now diagnosed with long term depression which is actually caused by taking antidepressants.

I'm not stupid. I've studied medicine for a long time. These drugs are not good for you and I can find many doctors who agree with my point of view here. I can give references if you like, but I'm sure you've all already heard many doctors don't think antidepressant are good for you to take on a regular bases.

Do a little research. Look at the long list of side effects caused by most antidepressants. Many include suicidal tendencies, heart attack, stroke, abnormal behavior, etc. Most will cause depression in normal people if they are abused by normal people.

Don’t be fooled. These just MAKE YOU HIGH. That’s all they do. They don’t cure depression, they just hide it.

I’ve seen studies that prove that antidepressants DO NOT REDUCE INCIDENCE OF SUICIDE!

Give cocaine to someone who's feeling down and out and suddenly they are on top of the world ready to jump back into life! WOW! They are feeling great! Their depression is suddenly gone...but then what happens after that? Well, it gets worse.

Antidepressants are no different. They make you feel good. That’s it. They don’t cure depression.

Talk to anyone suffering from depression and you’ll realize right away that they keep brining up old memories that are negative or they keep focusing on the bad things around them in their current life or they have worries about the future. It’s all in the mind.

I never saw anyone with depression who thought positive thoughts all the tame. Only you can cure your own depression. Only you control your thoughts. No one else does. Only you.
 
[quote='Coatl]
I don't mean to sound harsh but I've had my times of depression in the past and I just dealt with it and made it pass by thinking positive things. I never thought of using "feel good" drugs to solve it. I think this nonsense about people thinking they need drugs because they are depressed is ridiculous!
[/quote]

It's not harsh to voice your opinion.As said before we live in a highly medicated society...specifically in the United States.There are children under the age of 5 that havent even made it through their crucial stages of development that are being medicated for A.D.D because there parents dont know how to deal with the issue so they go to a shrink that has to justify his job by writing scripts pushing big pharma profits that do exploit the gifts of the amazon.

At the same time...in the true cases of Chemical imbalance, i dont believe thinking your way out of it is enough.Sometimes medications can be used as a TOOL not a cure in conjunction with execise,meditation, untill the person aquires the coping mechanisms to deal with life on lifes terms.

In the case of swims girl,i dont believe she needs to be on the medication but ultimately she has to make that desicion for herself all swim can do is lead by example and be supportive in whatever way he can.Swim has been giving her literature explaining the dangers of ssri's and ultimately i have faith that she will get off them.Sometimes it takes hitting an emotional or spiritual bottom as a catalyst for change.Sucks to learn the hard way.

Swim agrees that deep psychedilic experiences can be extremely healing in order to deal with the core issues at hand.



cheech said:
Very ridiculous indeed! I don't even take painkillers when it hurts. In my opinion painkillers are for pain which is so bad that you would rather kill yourself than stand it any longer. That is real pain. Any pain which doesn't bring up the thought of committing suicide is not real pain.[quote/]



I'm glad that you have never battled addiction......I Have. I dont know why? Alcoholism runs in the family,it could be partly genetics but i've battled addiction off and on for about 10 yrs.I took a 10yr sabatacal (spelling?) from psychedilics and ethneogens because of opiates.

CARL JUNG ON ADDICTION

Carl jung said:
craving for alcohol (and drugs) was the equivalent on a low level of the spiritual thirst of our being for wholeness, expressed in medieval language: the union with God.1

How could one formulate such an insight in a language that is not misunderstood in our days?

The only right and legitimate way to such an experience is, that it happens to you in reality and it can only happen to you when you walk on a path, which leads you to a higher understanding. You might be led to that goal by an act of grace or through a personal and honest contact with friends, or through a higher education of the mind beyond the confines of mere rationalism[quote/]



Mabey it was ridiculous using substances for my desire to feel good.People do excessive shopping to feel good,people gamble to feel good,people jump out of planes to feel good,people over eat to feel good.Abuse of anything is not good.

Ulitimately i think addicts are people looking to fill the void within themselves and use "feel good drugs" to do so,it's not nessisarily out of pain.Which is why swim has recently been returning to etnneogens,practicing meditation as a tool to fill that void with spiritualism.It has been swims path and he's making progress :d .

Thats why i like this place.This is a psychedelic/ethneogen community and i have found that people in this forum tend to be mature and non judgemental and open minded,which made me feel comfortable talking about swim.

I dont know if any of you read "The Jaguar That Roams The Mind" by Robert Tindall (it came out this yr).I mentioned it in the literature section.

It's about this guy who happens to have struggled with addiction and had a messed up childhood and his adventures lead him down to peru where he spends time at this place called takawasi (ayahuasca drug treatment center) and meats up with all these curenderos.I highly reccomend the book.
 
The idea of giving someone an antidepressant is to get someone's brain up and running again, and then they'l be able to follow a certain therapy.
A medication alone will never cure anyone from depressions. Pills cannot make a bad childhood go away or anything. But some people are so messed up, they need something to BE ABLE to have 'positive thoughts' at all.
The power of positive thinking is incredible, i know. I think every good shrink will know this.
I believe it's always better to see a doctor, if you believe you can't cope with live, than to try to solve everything by yourself. My father was an alcoholic, and alcohol was his 'medication', wich he 'proscribed' to himself. The thing is that he was in serious denial about him not functioning normally. It would have been a good thing if he would have sought help.
I know people who really benefitted from antidepressants, but they all went into therapy. I think if you just take something like a drug, nothing is gonna help.
 
I know people who really benefitted from antidepressants

Are they still on them?

If so... nothing has been fixed and they are probably a drug addict (pill popper)
 
[quote='Coatl]

Are they still on them?

If so... nothing has been fixed and they are probably a drug addict (pill popper)[/quote]

All do respect,i believe that last statement is a MAJOR generalization.

Bottom line i believe an over medicating society based on corperate greed is just evil and i do agree (in some and if not most cases) SSRI's do more harm than good (for reasons that have already been mentioned), with the exception of people who are dangers to themselves or others.

I'm not trying to justify drug addiction and the use of pills as a means to have...ultimately a false sense of "well being"

Swim happens to be someone who has battled addiction and can say whole heartedly that addiction is a spiritual disease,it's not a choice that someone make's, that "i think i'm gonna be a drug addict or alcaholic".

It's unfortunate to hear about people like polytrip's father who are in denial about their disease and i certainly do not cast judgement upon them.

Drugs and Alcohol are not the true problem and if someone is honest with themselves,that therir drug/alcohol use is killing them and hurting their loved ones, that is simply the first step.

Then it's a matter of spiritual recovery.....which ethneogens,psychedelics,meditation and compassionate people have been a crucial part of swims recovery (he still has a way to go) but there will be people who dont understand and will cast judgement and thats to be expected.

Some of the most spiritual people i have met have been recovering drug addicts and alcoholics, in fact i believe thats the way some people become curanderos.... from being healed of spiritual disease and then make it their lifes mission to help others cure themselves of their own,with the use of plants,chanting,drumming and ect....

I also believe that some drug addicts/alcoholics have the opportunity that most people dont...which is the gift of hitting rock bottom, which acts as a catalyst for change and seeking spiritual enlightenment.

Most people walk through their lives being complaisent (splg?) with the status quo and never change because they dont feel they have a reason to....The bills are paid,the family is provided for,we have health insurance,we own a house, the lawn has been mowed and i have my valium prescription...BLAH..BLAH...BLAH

Anyway i'm done rambling and i do agree w/ the general consensus that Big Pharma is evil and most people are over-medicated but lets not be so quick to cast a stone at people who have real chemical imbalances or battle addiction.
 
Im just off the phone to my girlfriend and I was saying lots of things people have been saying. Was just telling her she has to read this thread, now its got better! 8)

As polytrip mentioned some people need something to kickstart them when their really messed up. And some people just arent as educated on the subject and think thats what will make things better but really makes things worse. Ive heard people saying a side effect of prozac when you first take it is suicidal thoughts but thats just part of the drug. Its like eh, doesnt sound very logical does it?? Some people just think oh its the medical establishment they must be right their experts and dont even think. Im going to get my girlfriend to read this as she knows fine well its the case I think its just changing her beleif system from oh im going to feel really low, the anwser is anti-depressants, the options there to go back on them.
 
Yeah, I had my girl read this thread, along with another one that i started a few months back called "ssri's coplete dmt blockade?" (i believe thats what it's titled,anyway). Theres also another very informative website on antideppresant alternatives. I was just looking for it but i couldnt find it but i'll post it when i do. I think the most important thing is being safe and if someone was to try and get off there med's,to seek medical supervision and not just jump off but to safely ween down. Like Acolon said and other's the w/d's can be horrendous. :)
 
My favorite thing to hear from these fools is "well when I stopped taking it, it made me sad, so that means it's working and I have to take it to be happy"

No dipshit, your fucking addicted, if a heroin addict doesn't have his heroin, well he gets sad... Same with you.

(I hope I'm not offending anybody with this, It just hits very close to home with me and I feel very strongly about it)
 
[quote='Coatl]My favorite thing to hear from these fools is "well when I stopped taking it, it made me sad, so that means it's working and I have to take it to be happy"[/quote]

shrinks tend to push this idea onto their patients.My gfrind,when she wanted to get off her lexapro, she weened down rather quickly because she wanted off.As a result she became extremely emotional and irrational and when she went to see her shrink,he told her thats why she needed to stay on the meds..because thats the way she is when she's not on them.Well the c*cksucker lied,simply because she was going through w/d's and thats what a lot of shrinks do...they make their patients believe that they need the meds.

So now she is seeing another dr. that is sympathetic to the situation and hopefully she is able to ween down as painlessly as possible.

[quote='Coatl]No dipshit, your fucking addicted, if a heroin addict doesn't have his heroin, well he gets sad... Same with you.[/quote]

I'm not sure if your speaking specifically of me or speaking in general but it takes a lot for me to be offended.
I'm just a guy that's concerned about a loved one and doing his best to support her get off her meds and doing what i need to do for my own well being.

I have found the people in this forum to be extremely friendly and knowledgeable about "the molecule",other ethneogens and spirituality in general.It's nice to find a group of people that are supportive of ones spiritual path that are willing to give advice,feedback and support, otherwise i wouldnt be here.I certainly dont want to upset people by speaking my mind or relating my own life experiences. Isn' that why were here...to share information,experiences and thoughts on life or am i just being a dipshit? :?
 
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