Medications for Deppression?

[69ron]

i agree it can be done but this is not always the case. their are forms of depression which aren't curable by a change in thought processes

how about you try going on an ecstasy binge which would leave your dopamine depleted afterwards and see if positive thinking will change how you feel the day after

even try smoking a gram of hydro weed in a night and see how much you enjoy your favourite hobby over the next two days.

if depression is merely a way of thinking then why dont SSRIs affect people without depression

when i was depressed i would go surfing and do a really good turn and i didnt even feel good afterwards. or when i went skateboarding id land a trick and i would still feel shit. now when i surf and do a good turn, or skate and land a trick it leaves me euphoric and buzzed, almost like im high.

do you think an illness like bipolar can be changed with positive thinking? these people cycle through depressive and manic episodes. if it was merely about their thought process why would they have such high and lows

Hey, I know what withdrawal is like. I've been there. It makes you feel horrible emotionaly, but you can still function just fine and still do things properly and still go to work and still do all the normal things you did before IF YOU HAVE A STRONG MIND. Just because your emotional state is not good, doesn't give you a reason to be depressed. It's all about mind control sir. Either you have it or you don't.

I can feel depressed and still do everything normally and still be a productive member of society.

Feeling are just feelings. You don't need to let them control how you act in life.

This is where some people just don't get it. Just because your emotional state is not good, doesn't mean your mental state has to follow it. We are all in contol of our minds. Emotions can influence you if you are WEAK mentally. I am not mentally weak.

Let me tell you that I was once extremely addicted to something (I’d rather not say). Once I realized I was addicted I quit cold turkey. It was hard, but I am in control of my mind. No chemical is going to enslave me ever again. The withdrawal effects were horrible. It made you feel lifeless, pointless, meaningless, etc. But I quit, and never fell into depression from it. I dealt with the negative emotional state LIKE A MAN. From that addiction I learned the true power of self control and mind control.

I’m telling you, I don’t by this argument for a second.

There are basically two kinds of people. Those who can control their minds, and those who are controlled by their emotions. The second category is the category that the jails and mental hospitals are filled with.

If you let your emotions control you, you are weak. Step up and take it like man or a woman, and not like a child!

Don’t let your emotions control your brain. You be in charge. YOU.

If I can handle the deepest despairs of withdrawal and continue to contribute positively to society then you can to. I am not a superman. I am a normal guy just like you are. So, if I can do it you can to.

Anyway, that’s I feel on the subject and I have lots of reason why I feel that way.

The best thing for anyone to do who’s suffering from depression is to learn mind control. It’s one of the most powerful things you’ll ever do for yourself. Without mind control, you’re a hopeless case, God help you.

 

[Jorkest]

well said

 

[Garulfo]

The second category is the category that the jails and mental hospitals are filled with.

Warning, warning... thoughts like "there are weak people and there are strong people..." may quickly became "they are people of value and others"... this may quickly become eugenics, racism...

Mind control.. ha ha ha, there is nothing like 'control' in life, it is just an illusion and the last thing that the mind can do is 'control' (but the mind is very good at making you feel that you can control something).

It's a non-sense to say "if I can do it, you can". Everybody is different, has different history. Maybe you were able to handle your withdrawal because of this or that ( a better bio-chemistry ?, good people around you ?), or just because you are young but this can not be applied to everyone. Think about any degenerative illness (and there are a lot).
Whatever strong your mind is, it can not do anything against diabetes or hormonal problems. And hormonal problems affect seriously emotional states. What may do the mind ? Heal the diabetes ?

 

[69ron]

Eugenics, racism? What in the world are you talking about?

Sorry, I totally don't buy it. It's not the same as diabetes, mental retardation, or schizophrenia. Those are solid problems that you cannot fix with mind control. Depression can be cured only with mind control and that is a fact. The anti-depressant drugs people take do not reduce suicidal tendencies, or other symptoms of a bad mind set, and they absolutely are PROVEN NOT TO CURE DEPRESSION. Case study after case study has proven that.

Anyway, whether you want to believe it or not, mind control is the way out and that has been proven to work for many people. Anti-depressants are not a way out.

 

[ohayoco]

I agree that antidepressants are generally unnecessary. In very extreme cases, I think they're useful WITH THERAPY... something that just keeps the person alive until the therapy can sink in.

My problem with them is that they're ridiculously oversubscribed. For depression and ADD. I mean, I know a girl who was given amphetamine by her doctor every day as a kid. She said she'd get on the school bus with one hand over her eyes, the other out in front of her to keep other people away. She stopped taking it when she was old enough to realise. She's 20 something but she looks 40. She speaks like her whole being was frazzled long ago. This is now a craze in America, a whole generation's going to be fucked, half of them like speeding and the other half zombies!

 

[Jorkest]

you should look up the healer named John of God....hes from south america somewhere...and hes healed something like 15 million people....he even does surgery while in trance without any antiseptic or numbing agents

 

[ohayoco]

A friend of my mum's was given Vallium for depression. No therapy offered. She was a zombie for 2 years until she finally kicked it. It was completely unnecessary. If she ever feels blue nowadays, she just starts a St John's Wort course until she's out of it. Now we're seeing the same thing happening with prozac.

 

[mardybum]

[quote='Coatl]

do you think an illness like bipolar can be changed with positive thinking? these people cycle through depressive and manic episodes. if it was merely about their thought process why would they have such high and lows

Because they have trained themselves to believe that! It's amazing what the mind can do!

When I had my axiety attacks I would freak out, start sweating, heart rate would go up... now was there anything wrong with me? No, I was just freaking out and all I had to do to stop it was... well... stop freaking out. [/quote]

Lol, one of my best mates has bi-polar type I, and when he has a manic episode he can get delusional. In one of his manic episodes he thought there was a whole consipracy against him, and he wouldnt listen to anyone, thinking they we were all trying to kill him. He didn't calm down until his episode was over. Somehow I doubt he trained himself to do this. In a sesne it's no different to someone resembling psychotic symptoms, and i'm sure you wouldn't say they trained themselves to believe it.

i agree it can be done but this is not always the case. their are forms of depression which aren't curable by a change in thought processes

how about you try going on an ecstasy binge which would leave your dopamine depleted afterwards and see if positive thinking will change how you feel the day after

even try smoking a gram of hydro weed in a night and see how much you enjoy your favourite hobby over the next two days.

if depression is merely a way of thinking then why dont SSRIs affect people without depression

when i was depressed i would go surfing and do a really good turn and i didnt even feel good afterwards. or when i went skateboarding id land a trick and i would still feel shit. now when i surf and do a good turn, or skate and land a trick it leaves me euphoric and buzzed, almost like im high.

do you think an illness like bipolar can be changed with positive thinking? these people cycle through depressive and manic episodes. if it was merely about their thought process why would they have such high and lows

Hey, I know what withdrawal is like. I've been there. It makes you feel horrible emotionaly, but you can still function just fine and still do things properly and still go to work and still do all the normal things you did before IF YOU HAVE A STRONG MIND. Just because your emotional state is not good, doesn't give you a reason to be depressed. It's all about mind control sir. Either you have it or you don't.

I can feel depressed and still do everything normally and still be a productive member of society.

Feeling are just feelings. You don't need to let them control how you act in life.

This is where some people just don't get it. Just because your emotional state is not good, doesn't mean your mental state has to follow it. We are all in contol of our minds. Emotions can influence you if you are WEAK mentally. I am not mentally weak.

Let me tell you that I was once extremely addicted to something (I’d rather not say). Once I realized I was addicted I quit cold turkey. It was hard, but I am in control of my mind. No chemical is going to enslave me ever again. The withdrawal effects were horrible. It made you feel lifeless, pointless, meaningless, etc. But I quit, and never fell into depression from it. I dealt with the negative emotional state LIKE A MAN. From that addiction I learned the true power of self control and mind control.

I’m telling you, I don’t by this argument for a second.

There are basically two kinds of people. Those who can control their minds, and those who are controlled by their emotions. The second category is the category that the jails and mental hospitals are filled with.

If you let your emotions control you, you are weak. Step up and take it like man or a woman, and not like a child!

Don’t let your emotions control your brain. You be in charge. YOU.

If I can handle the deepest despairs of withdrawal and continue to contribute positively to society then you can to. I am not a superman. I am a normal guy just like you are. So, if I can do it you can to.

Anyway, that’s I feel on the subject and I have lots of reason why I feel that way.

The best thing for anyone to do who’s suffering from depression is to learn mind control. It’s one of the most powerful things you’ll ever do for yourself. Without mind control, you’re a hopeless case, God help you.

Yes, even when I was severely depressed, I got on with my life. I did my year 12 school exams at the lowest point of my depression and passed with percentages of 70s and 80s.

When I went through the withdrawals of the SSRIs I had just started my first full-time job. I still got the work done and never missed a day.

I smoked cigarettes everyday for a year and went cold turkey 6 months ago and haven't touched one since. I've gone cold turkey on to an opiate addiction and suffered days of torturing migraines, nausea and vomiting, and stuck it out. I've been mentally addicted to marijuana, where I stayed high for almost 6 months of my life and again went cold turkey. I found this harder than quitting cigarettes, but still managed.

I don't see that this proves anything. I still think depression is a serious mental disorder not cured by thought processes. Yes, you can still get on with your life, but it makes it a hell of alot harder than it should be.

 

['Coatl]

My problem with them is that they're ridiculously oversubscribed. For depression and ADD. I mean, I know a girl who was given amphetamine by her doctor every day as a kid. She said she'd get on the school bus with one hand over her eyes, the other out in front of her to keep other people away. She stopped taking it when she was old enough to realise. She's 20 something but she looks 40. She speaks like her whole being was frazzled long ago. This is now a craze in America, a whole generation's going to be fucked, half of them like speeding and the other half zombies!

Thats a scary thought.

 

[Jorkest]

well i guess those zombie movies werent wrong...some of them are wicked slow..and some of them can smash through steel plates(I Am Legend)

 

[Dwhitty76]

WOW !!
I've been working like a MADman lately and havent "checked in" w/ the nexus in a day or so and man thid thread got interesting since it started !!
the ultimate success story is of someone who is prescribed (or not) medication to help through times of FUNK and learn some coping mechanisms to become "of mental stregnth" and are able to get off.

Big pharma is evil but in some situaions medications help.I just wish our govt (us) would legalize all ethneogens/psychedelics in order to persue study and treatment of mental/emotional/spiritual illness in a holistic non conventional way but unfortunately that would take away from corperate profit and "shereholder earnings".

I'm a functioning addict that suits up and shows up everyday (thats not stregnth, thats survival).I also am aware of MYself and am getting better everyday but i hope to god that i'm not alway's going to be dependent on mental sregnth!! :lol:
My heart was leading me in a good direction last night and i'm glad i didnt let my head get in the way.

As much as we all may dissagree on certain topics,i am greatful for everyone that is here, to disagree or agree with and want to wich all peace. NEXUS IS THE SH*T

 

[Garulfo]

Eugenics, racism? What in the world are you talking about?

Ron,

I felt unconfortable about some parts about what you wrote above ("there are two kind of people etc..."). Pushing such 'ideology' a step further sounds dangerous to me. But I guess I misunderstood what you meant.

Sorry, I totally don't buy it. It's not the same as diabetes, mental retardation, or schizophrenia. Those are solid problems that you cannot fix with mind control.

Indeed.

Depression can be cured only with mind control and that is a fact.

Not all depressions. Ex, depressions that are the result of 'solid problems' (and we forget a lot of thoses in that list) need that the solid problem is fixed, but the depression can be helped also by meds in that case.

The anti-depressant drugs people take do not reduce suicidal tendencies, or other symptoms of a bad mind set,

Sorry to say that they do (I know it from personal experience). Theses drugs really lower anxiety levels and therefore they lower such negative thoughts.

and they absolutely are PROVEN NOT TO CURE DEPRESSION. Case study after case study has proven that.

I agree with that, nobody should take such drug thinking it can cure the problem. The problem may cure by itself (with time), or with the help of a psychologist or for other reasons. The drugs may help to feel better during a time tough.

I also agree that AD are oversubscribed. But worst, they are subscribed without explaining what they do, what they do not and how to use them. Similar issue than with benzos. Benzos are nice when used rarely for good reasons (like avoiding hurting oneself). But is'nt it the same for every active (and illegal) drug ?
It's more a matter of education than a matter of saying this drug is good, this one is evil.

 

[69ron]

Eugenics, racism? What in the world are you talking about?

Ron,

I felt unconfortable about some parts about what you wrote above ("there are two kind of people etc..."). Pushing such 'ideology' a step further sounds dangerous to me. But I guess I misunderstood what you meant.

I think I see how that could have been interpreted differently than what I meant. Basically I’m saying that everyone controls their minds. Some people chose to let emotions control them. This is not eugenics or racism. When I say there are two kinds of people, I mean that some people choose to let emotions control them, and others choose to control themselves with their minds instead.

On one side you have people who get angry and kill someone because they got angry. That’s allowing your emotions to control you. Another person can get angry and instead choose to leave the situation until they cool off. That’s someone who doesn’t let emotions control them.

It’s not racist or anything like that. People choose to either use their minds properly or not. Like I said, there are two kinds of people. Those who control themselves with their minds and those who let emotions control them.

Depression can be cured only with mind control and that is a fact.

Not all depressions. Ex, depressions that are the result of 'solid problems' (and we forget a lot of thoses in that list) need that the solid problem is fixed, but the depression can be helped also by meds in that case.

I believe all depression can be cured by changing the mental activity of the individual. It’s just like learning to ride a bicycle. It takes some time to learn, but anyone can learn how. But some people are so badly messed up that it takes lots and lots of work, and so they give up and go back to the meds.

The anti-depressant drugs people take do not reduce suicidal tendencies, or other symptoms of a bad mind set,

Sorry to say that they do (I know it from personal experience). Theses drugs really lower anxiety levels and therefore they lower such negative thoughts.

I can show tons of evidence that they don’t help at all and can make it worse.


Look man, I’m not making this stuff up. There are many studies that say exactly what I’m saying.

Patients and doctors should be warned that the increased suicidal activity observed in children and adolescents taking certain antidepressant drugs may well be present also in adults…

That’s from Increased suicide risk linked to antidepressants

Antidepressants increase risk of suicide attempt, but not completed suicide, in people with previous suicide attempts

That’s from http://ebmh.bmj.com/cgi/content/extract/10/3/90

Antidepressants increase suicide risk in young adults, study finds

That’s from http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/12/06/news/suicide.php

They make you high and so you think they are doing something good for you. All they do is make you high. That’s it. People still commit suicide while taken them and some people are more likely to. I don't see how that's good.

 

[Garulfo]

It’s not racist or anything like that. People choose to either use their minds properly or not.

Ok, your point is clearer that way.

Another person can get angry and instead choose

I'm not sure that someone overloaded by emotions 'choose' anything.
Let's simplify our behaviors and say that it is like two different control systems, working together in parallel. The mental system, and the emotional one. Theses are two important 'layers' of what makes an individual.
Usually in our society, 'you' is associated with the mental system. 'You choose' means that the mental system is able to control the emotional one, which is probably a good thing from a Darwinian point of view, especially for 'quick' emotions like fear, anger. Some people may lack of some mental system, may recognise it is lacking for social life and may want to improve the mental system.

But most people already have strong, educated mental.
I feel (no scientific nor obvious proof, just a feeling) that people with the stronger mental are mainly thoses who devellop anxiety, depression etc...

I think that depression and other mental diseases (anxiety, TOC, phobias...) are the result of long processes with both system stressing each other. Healing such problem may takes some time, a lot of time.
AD can help when you need time because when your emotional system becomes stronger, whatever you want to choose, you lose :?... until your mental system is strong enough to give you some control. You see what I mean ? You can not choose. The stronger system choose.

'Who' is choosing what ?. Are we the emotional, the mental, both or none ? That's a very interresting and philosophical question. Should be another topic

The articles you mentioned shows that there are side effects, increased for young people, ok. I do not know any active substance that do not have side effects. But the balance between benefits and risks is not that easy to define.

I believe all depression can be cured by changing the mental activity of the individual.

Comportemental therapy is well known to be quite efficient for anxiety disorders (helped with Ads). Depression is another beast.

They make you high and so you think they are doing something good for you

Please, let me know what AD can makes you high, I'm interrested
Nah, during the first weeks, ADs makes you feel likes crap (with indeed increase of suicidal thoughts) and after a while you feel yourself less emotionaly reactive. But certainly not high (benzos can do that).

People still commit suicide while taken them and some people are more likely to. I don't see how that's good.

That's not good, that's statistically better than nothing :x
But that's not enough for some people (many unfortunatly).
Psychedelics should be used also and I bet that carrefully used, they could really heal people instead of only reducing their emotional reactivity.

 

[polytrip]

"There are basically two kinds of people. Those who can control their minds, and those who are controlled by their emotions. The second category is the category that the jails and mental hospitals are filled with.

If you let your emotions control you, you are weak. Step up and take it like man or a woman, and not like a child!

Don’t let your emotions control your brain. You be in charge. YOU."

At some point, we are all controlled by our emotions.
At the same time, being weak or strong is not something that's permanent.
Someone can get weakened or strengthened in time.
Depression in it's most serious forms, comes with weakness. That's where the pills are for. To enable these peoples, to gain control over their minds again.
This anorectic girls i knew, realy, realy, realy was a patient and there was no way any rational thought would have done anything to her. Any discussion was impossible. She would lie to everybody, tell things like 'i realize now, that i have to gain weight', and the next moment she would be cought, secretly trying to make herself puke or doing some crazy 'exercise' to burn calories.

Bottom line;there ARE real serious cases. Nobody likes antidepressants being proscribed to everybody who doesn't feel right for a few days, but the serious cases are exceptional in every way.
Depression CAN be as serious as schizofrenia.

Many people who don't get the proper treatment end up on the streets.
The majority of those people you see hanging on the streets are patients.
I'd rather see them following some sort of therapy with medications of some kind, then to let these people wonder around.
In the end, most of them will seek some kind of medication anyway.
And no matter how toxic some antidepressants are (and this realy varies a lot, the newer ones mostly being less toxic then the traditional ones), i think most of us will agree on the fact that speed, coke, crack, meth, alcohol or heroïne, or even cannabis are far worse than most of those SSRI's or tricyclics.

With those medications the suïcides and side-effects mostly occur in the first weeks of use.

Electroshock therapy is being used more often again, and this also seems to book results in some people. Those of us who've seen 'one flew over the cuckoo's nest', may have unpleasant associations with this, but when it realy helps people to pick up their lives, then who are we to judge.

i must say i'm pretty liberal on these type of issues. I'm on the opinion that if someone really wants to kill himself, then we should let him. But as long as there's some hope of recovering i would not judge ANY effective method.

The alternative methods, like ayahuasca treatments and traditional herbal remedies or hypnosis. are becoming more and more accepted as well.

 

[acolon_5]

or even cannabis are far worse than most of those SSRI's or tricyclics.

I highly disagree. SSRI's can seriously mess up seratonin receptors...cannabis has been shown to help with some cancers...different in every way. Tricyclics are not as bad imho if you can get over some of the physical side effects. Sure SSRI's and tricyclics have their place in treating depression, but to say that cannabis is far worse than them is simply ignorant and I don't think you will find a whole lot of people agreeing with you.

Cannabis saved my life when SSRI's and Tricyclic antidepressants were only making it worse.

 

[polytrip]

But we all know those cannabis-zombies. I didn't mean to put cannabis in the same category as crack, ofcourse. But for most people who're depressed, smoking cannabis will make things worse.
It stops people from taking action and doing something with their lives. But there are exceptions ofcourse.

 

[Garulfo]

Cannabis saved my life when SSRI's and Tricyclic antidepressants were only making it worse.

Acolon, do you mean related to depression ? And if yes, can you elborate a bit ? I find it is quite interesting.

 

[ohayoco]

Foaf fears cannabis more than any other drug. May have worked for you Acolon_5, but it did the opposite for him. Heroin, crack, meth, he knew all these were to be avoided but everyone always goes on about how great weed is and how medicinal it is so it never felt dangerous. It was fun at first but his stoner days ruined his life in the end, after a process of attrition that lasted years. Heightened insecurity, isolating oneself, depression, eventual paranoia... him and his friends all had to ween themselves off it in the end. He didn't even smoke that much, not even every day. Bad juju after the honeymoon years. Life got a LOT better once he'd given up... he even felt like it had stunted his social development, having started when he was 14.

 

[mardybum]

Yeah I have to agree with ohayoco. I abused weed daily for about 6 months and suffered some really devastating effects. But with moderation I find it has alot of positive attributes without the negatives. Weed can really fuck you over though and it's almost subtle.