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Mescaline: Kash AB HCl and Cielo Extraction Attempts(update: Extractions Complete) +New extractions

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Madhattress

Madhattress

Established member
Hi everyone,:)

So I want to attempt to do my first Mescaline extraction. I have ordered the chemical and equipment i need from a lab supply company. So lab grade chemicals CP.

I have been looking through a few extraction recipes but think I will attempt to do the following one i will reference and post below I found on Erowid.

Since it is my first time, i just want to ask the community of the safety of the end product crystals? Is there any chance of these chemicals to leave traces in the salts or is this not possible if the recipes are followed religiously?

I am very good at following instructions and will take the utmost care in the process where safety is concerned.

Any extra safety tips from you guys will be appreciated.

Here is the recipe i am thinking of following. Let me know what you think.

EDIT: I have decided to rather go with Kash's AB extraction Method-
Kash's A/B Mescaline Extraction - DMT-Nexus Wiki

EDIT: I decided to do the kash's AB extraction as well as the Cielo Tek extraction. Both with 105grams of dried cactus.
 
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First two pictures are before i dropped the fumaric acid in. The next two are after the drop. And then the next three are like 10-15 minutes after putting the fumaric in. I didn't see how long it would take with the stir bar in the write up but remember watching the video on youtube it would take an hour or so for it to fully extract and crystalize. I guess I'll check in an hour or two and see what's happened but i don't imagine i'll see crystals if that stir bar is going right? I mean that is if this even works at all considering I probably had weak cactus. Anyways I have it spinning on the lowest speed.
 
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johnnieferrari said:
First two pictures are before i dropped the fumaric acid in. The next two are after the drop. And then the next three are like 10-15 minutes after putting the fumaric in. I didn't see how long it would take with the stir bar in the write up but remember watching the video on youtube it would take an hour or so for it to fully extract and crystalize. I guess I'll check in an hour or two and see what's happened but i don't imagine i'll see crystals if that stir bar is going right? I mean that is if this even works at all considering I probably had weak cactus. Anyways I have it spinning on the lowest speed.
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Looks like you might get a few mg there, it's definitely worth trying the dark storage pretreatment.
 
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So this is what came out. Not sure if this actually mescaline or just undissolved fumaric acid... Don't really want to consume fumaric acid but couldn't see how it didn't dissolve in all that liquid. I guess i just didn't see it "melting" into the solvent so I'm a little confused.
 
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johnnieferrari said:
Does this look right? Its more a chalk consistency that crystals. Has no odor to it just still sketched out about the fumaric not visibly dissolving in the solvent.
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You'd have to use something presumptive reagent testing and/or TLC to begin identifying it. There's always a chance you have some amount of fumaric acid contamination, possibly as well as a proportion of calcium fumarate.

Situations similar to this are a large part of the reason why analytical chemistry was invented.

johnnieferrari said:
Are there more efficient methods concluded after all this time or that's it?
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@modern may have attempted to influence the dark ageing process by using ethylene treatment with the assistance of ripe bananas, iirc.
johnnieferrari said:
definitely going to try the dark storage. The writeup says just wrap in newspaper. Is that it? And just like stick it in a closet?
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Somewhere cool (<15°C) and dry would be best. I've sometimes used poster tubes or flower boxes, as it makes it easier to handle specimens with longer spines. Not really a problem for PC pach perhaps but you'd still want a good thick layer of paper to keep light out so…
 
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Transform said:
You'd have to use something presumptive reagent testing and/or TLC to begin identifying it. There's always a chance you have some amount of fumaric acid contamination, possibly as well as a proportion of calcium fumarate.

Situations similar to this are a large part of the reason why analytical chemistry was invented.


@modern may have attempted to influence the dark ageing process by using ethylene treatment with the assistance of ripe bananas, iirc.

Somewhere cool (<15°C) and dry would be best. I've sometimes used poster tubes or flower boxes, as it makes it easier to handle specimens with longer spines. Not really a problem for PC pach perhaps but you'd still want a good thick layer of paper to keep light out so…
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ok and it doesnt need to be stored in some specific way? Just on its side is fine?
 
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Transform said:
One more thing, in this particular instance it should be safe to taste a small amount. That may give you some idea of the presence of unreacted acid.
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i did taste a little and it sort of tasted like what the dry cactus that i grinded smelled like, that sort of spicy bitter taste. I put it in a capsule and just saving it for later since .15g wont do anything for me. and don't want to waste it. I do have a bunch of mushroom powder. I wonder if mixing the two might have some synergistic properties or would it just be a waste of both?
 
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johnnieferrari said:
definitely going to try the dark storage. The writeup says just wrap in newspaper. Is that it? And just like stick it in a closet? Are there more efficient methods concluded after all this time or that's it?
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ethylene increased by 10-15% and and product I've been working on increased by 20% 'raw'. I was getting numbers like 40% increase but not true increase but rather increase by dry weight influence. Just 2 weeks is enough for the increase in content.

stress is the MAIN factor to increase content. In the past I mistakenly mentioned nitrogen doesn't increase content since mescaline isn't a true alkaloid but a proto alkaloid so amino acids are what increases content... BUT someone has explained that amino acids are formed by nitrogen. HOWEVER stress is still required IMO and excess growth is counter to alkaloid increase. Just need to find the balance... I do plan on testing a method of using nitrogen to increase (short term factors)

Someone did have increase from jasmonic acid using a perfume. Other hormones worth testing are ABA and salicylic acid but I don't think SA will increase content.
 
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modern said:
ethylene increased by 10-15% and and product I've been working on increased by 20% 'raw'. I was getting numbers like 40% increase but not true increase but rather increase by dry weight influence. Just 2 weeks is enough for the increase in content.

stress is the MAIN factor to increase content. In the past I mistakenly mentioned nitrogen doesn't increase content since mescaline isn't a true alkaloid but a proto alkaloid so amino acids are what increases content... BUT someone has explained that amino acids are formed by nitrogen. HOWEVER stress is still required IMO and excess growth is counter to alkaloid increase. Just need to find the balance... I do plan on testing a method of using nitrogen to increase (short term factors)

Someone did have increase from jasmonic acid using a perfume. Other hormones worth testing are ABA and salicylic acid but I don't think SA will increase content.
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Im sorry, all of that just went over my ape brain. What does any of this mean?
 
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johnnieferrari said:
Im sorry, all of that just went over my ape brain. What does any of this mean?
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Keeping the cuttings with ethylene (bananas or apples) increases yield by 10-20% within 2 weeks. The increase is 40-50% if comparing dry weight.

Im a firm believer in stressing cuttings and has been proven universally with all plants.

Jasmonic acid is another interesting one that can be added via a perfume additive.

Adding nitrogen is another possible route that many swear by and I have been wrong in the past claiming it doesn’t help. Nitrogen will increase amino acids which increase mescaline… not direct increase like with true alkaloids…. I’ve yet to test this but plan to in the future.

Dark stress think is just increasing natural ethylene content. Stress is the main factor… it works
 
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modern said:
Keeping the cuttings with ethylene (bananas or apples) increases yield by 10-20% within 2 weeks. The increase is 40-50% if comparing dry weight.

Im a firm believer in stressing cuttings and has been proven universally with all plants.

Jasmonic acid is another interesting one that can be added via a perfume additive.

Adding nitrogen is another possible route that many swear by and I have been wrong in the past claiming it doesn’t help. Nitrogen will increase amino acids which increase mescaline… not direct increase like with true alkaloids…. I’ve yet to test this but plan to in the future.

Dark stress think is just increasing natural ethylene content. Stress is the main factor… it works
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wow thats cool. 10-20% is huge just from some bananas. I am definitely doing that. So i am planning on testing out different length of times for dark stressing my PC. Initially I was going to do 3 months, 6 months, 9 months, and 1 year but Loveall recommended 1.5 month, 3 month, 6 month, and 9 month. Obviously Id rather wait less so Ill go the shorter route. I think I'll only have 3 or 4 cuts of the same size and length to test this out. Would the test be better if I did this apple or banana trick with all the cactus? And is it only 2 weeks with the bananas or would they benefit more if it was longer?
 
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johnnieferrari said:
wow thats cool. 10-20% is huge just from some bananas. I am definitely doing that. So i am planning on testing out different length of times for dark stressing my PC. Initially I was going to do 3 months, 6 months, 9 months, and 1 year but Loveall recommended 1.5 month, 3 month, 6 month, and 9 month. Obviously Id rather wait less so Ill go the shorter route. I think I'll only have 3 or 4 cuts of the same size and length to test this out. Would the test be better if I did this apple or banana trick with all the cactus? And is it only 2 weeks with the bananas or would they benefit more if it was longer?
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I tried for 1 month and the difference is minimal only 2-3% more... An already strong cutting doesn't increase as much. 1 clone I got close to 16-20% but another already stronger clone only increased 6-12%... there is an increase but not as much...

these percentage are 'true' increase based on fresh weight.... dry weight shows 20-50% increase but is misleading. Don't keep the cutting completely sealed as it may lead to rot... air out once every couple days.
 
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modern said:
I tried for 1 month and the difference is minimal only 2-3% more... An already strong cutting doesn't increase as much. 1 clone I got close to 16-20% but another already stronger clone only increased 6-12%... there is an increase but not as much...

these percentage are 'true' increase based on fresh weight.... dry weight shows 20-50% increase but is misleading. Don't keep the cutting completely sealed as it may lead to rot... air out once every couple days.
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i was planning on keeping it in a shipping box that's long and slender like the size of the cactus so it would be decently snug but not air tight. Just loosely closing the box with the banana or apple.

As far as the cutting, its a pretty weak PC. When I did CIELO with citric, i got nothing. Washed it, and tried it again (same batch of EA) with fumaric and got .15g I don't know how much would've been extracted had I done fumaric to begin with but the plan is to try an increased the weak PC with the dark stress as I have no other option currently. I'm not sure what an "average" pull of PC is with fumaric but I imagine its way higher than what I got. I wonder if it's even worth it to dark stress with the PC I have. 16-20% increase sounds great but if my PC is so weak to begin with, even a 20% increase wouldn't yield me much more. Just wondering if its even worth it to spend the time and energy dark stressing weak cactus. Im cutting it regardless for grafting so I guess why not.
 
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johnnieferrari said:
i was planning on keeping it in a shipping box that's long and slender like the size of the cactus so it would be decently snug but not air tight. Just loosely closing the box with the banana or apple.

As far as the cutting, its a pretty weak PC. When I did CIELO with citric, i got nothing. Washed it, and tried it again (same batch of EA) with fumaric and got .15g I don't know how much would've been extracted had I done fumaric to begin with but the plan is to try an increased the weak PC with the dark stress as I have no other option currently. I'm not sure what an "average" pull of PC is with fumaric but I imagine its way higher than what I got. I wonder if it's even worth it to dark stress with the PC I have. 16-20% increase sounds great but if my PC is so weak to begin with, even a 20% increase wouldn't yield me much more. Just wondering if its even worth it to spend the time and energy dark stressing weak cactus. Im cutting it regardless for grafting so I guess why not.
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I mean it is up to you... I've had strong PC pachanoi (as a tea not extract) so maybe there is just a missing factor?
 
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