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Methylene blue Potent MAOI?

Josh.lobbs

Josh.lobbs

Esteemed member
Proposal for potential efficacy in using Methylene blue as an MAOI in Pharmahuasca.​


It has come to my attention that the dye Methylene Blue* (MB) is a potent MAOI inhibitor ([1]R R Ramsay, C Dunford, P K Gillman. (2009)) causing severe side effects at a dose of less than 5mg/kg** with co-consumption of serotonergic drugs ([2]C. Schwiebert, C. Irving, P. K. Gillman. (2009)). These effects of the drug may lead it to become a useful tool in the preparation of Pharmahuasca.

Potential Pros to using MB in Pharmahuasca
  • High potency
  • MAOI A affinity ***
  • Reasonably accessible
  • Cool colour
  • long history of medical use
  • 5hr half life*****
Potential Cons to using MB in Pharmahuasca
  • High potency
  • Reasonably accessible
  • Can cause hypertension****
  • Can cause immunoglobulin hypersensitive reaction*****
  • Can cause anaphylactic*****
  • Can cause Serotonin syndrome*****
  • (ofc) should not be used during pregnancy*****

* Methylene blue (cas number 61-73-4) not to be confused with Methyl blue (cas number 28983-56-4)
** Do not take more than 1-2mg/kg (although keep in mind I'm just making an "educated" guess here)
*** ([3]Anzelle Delport; Et Al. (2017))
**** ([4]Paya, Dominique; Et Al. (1993))
***** ([5]Tomasz Cwalinski. Et Al. (02 Nov 2020))

Reference list:

[1] R R Ramsay, C Dunford, P K Gillman. (2009). Methylene blue and serotonin toxicity: inhibition of monoamine oxidase A (MAO A) confirms a theoretical prediction. British Pharmacological Society. 152(6), p.946–951. [Online]. Available at: https://doi.org/10.1038/sj.bjp.0707430 [Accessed 28 May 2024].

[2] C. Schwiebert, C. Irving, P. K. Gillman. (2009). Small doses of methylene blue, previously considered safe, can precipitate serotonin toxicity. Association of Anesthetists. 64(8), pp.924-924. [Online]. Available at: https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1365-2044.2009.06029.x [Accessed 28 May 2024].

[3] Anzelle Delport; Et Al. (2017). The monoamine oxidase inhibition properties of selected structural analogues of methylene blue. [Online]. pubmed. Last Updated: 01 april 2017. Available at: The monoamine oxidase inhibition properties of selected structural analogues of methylene blue - PubMed [Accessed 30 May 2024].

[4] Paya, Dominique; Et Al. (1993). Effects of Methylene Blue on Blood Pressure and Reactivity to Norepinephrine in Endotoxemic Rats. [Online]. journals.lww.com. Last Updated: june 1993. Available at: June 1993 - Volume 21 - Issue 6 : Journal of Cardiovascular Pharmacology [Accessed 30 May 2024].

[5] Tomasz Cwalinski. Et Al. (02 Nov 2020). Methylene Blue—Current Knowledge, Fluorescent Properties, and Its Future Use. [Online]. National Library of medicine. Last Updated: 02 Nov 2020. Available at: Methylene Blue—Current Knowledge, Fluorescent Properties, and Its Future Use [Accessed 30 May 2024].
 
Another drawback of methylene blue is that it is a non-selective MAOI, inhibiting both MAO-A and MAO-B. This necessitates strict adherence to the MAOI diet to avoid potentially dangerous interactions.

Additionally, as you noted, methylene blue's higher potency makes accurate dosing more challenging, so this should also be considered carefully.


Kind regards,

The Traveler
 
I've been dosing MB as part of my recent stack and it's been making my stomach feel amazing and seriously improved my breathing I feel. Have been combining with infrared light as well to fully activate my mitochondria.

Was just wondering what a blast off would be like...
 
I found it through the NAC, NAD+ spike protein squashers, began seriously studying molecular biology to understand mitochondria beyond pop sci "powerhouse of the cell" level thinking and put all the research from NIR and IR photobiomodulation into context with the evidences displayed for MBs incredible uses and just thought why not. Its 20 bucks for a bottle and goes down with a bad aftertaste (I've had worse) Other than that it seems to enhance herb, and produces a nice warm energy in my belly (I'm prone to stomach aches from even having a cold drink) and a good vibe in my heart and mind. That's as far as Ill go with my subjective experience with it..but I'm also stacking many different peptides and aminos so who knows. I'm just grateful when I find combos of food/supplements that work for me.
 
Mylu said:
. . . began seriously studying molecular biology to understand mitochondria beyond pop sci "powerhouse of the cell" level thinking . . .
Click to expand...
Mitochondria are cool. I've only learnt A level knowledge about them and sometime during class something just clicked for me.
I realized the depth and breath of such a small yet integral system, I realized how much I didn't know and how much I have yet to learn. That is honestly the best feeling in the world.

anyway not to derail my own thread (lol).
I'm glad it's working for you. ❤️
 
Something that's good for the mitochondria btw, is Folate, that and B12. Don't use the Folic Acid though, that's not Folate (and it sucks), go for Methylfolate, but there's also Folinic Acid, and you can combine them both which is what i've been doing as of the last couple or so weeks, but Methylfolate is very good for the central nervous system and increases synthesis/production of Tetrahydrobiopterin which is the co-factor used in neurotransmitter synthesis, and ime (i have Autism) you can definitely feel it. There's also something with the fingernail moons btw (little to no fingernail moons means low Folate/B12) in relation to Folate i'm pretty sure, i mean it could be B12 possibly, but all signs so far ime lead to Folate), and Folinic Acid might be better for that, especially since Methylfolate relies on B12 to convert back into Tetrahydrofolate and thus goes back into the Folate cycle, and if you're low in B12 you can be high in Methylfolate and low in Tetrahydrofolate, so a nice balanced dosage, ime like 15 to 30mgs of Methylfolate with like 5mgs of B12, ymmv.

But yeah, Folate is worth looking into imo, i feel like it's, "very important", and most of us are lacking in Folate these days due to it's replacement with Folic Acid, even without the whole MTHFR thing the DHFR enzyme itself is likely the main issue when it comes to Folic Acid because DHFR is rate-limited and is not what we're supposed to be getting our Folate from so it's activity is very slow in Humans and only pumps out a bit of actual Tetrahydrofolate (likely just enough to prevent neural tube defects and shit but likely not the actual level we're supposed to be getting), plus Folic Acid can cross into the bloodstream unmetabolized and can inhibit/block the Folate receptors and transporters (and thus reduce/block Methylfolate in the CNS), can also lead to the immune system sending out antibodies for the Folate receptors because it's trying to "get at" what's not supposed to be there aka the Folic Acid, on top of that antibodies have also been found apparently in cows milk and i guess if you drink it you consume those antibodies and it has a similar effect, and of course the antibodies in the milk come from the Folic Acid in the cows.

And if you really think about a lot of the issues people have been having the last few decades, i mean it can correlate with many things, but they started fortifying grains/foods with Folic Acid in the late 90's, i think around 98, but even before then it was apparently in like prenatals and such, so people were consuming it long before then and my mom said she consumed a prenatal with it in it when she was pregnant with me, and i have Autism, so, coincidence? i think not, not only potentially due to Folic Acid itself causing issues in the body/brain, but also and more importantly due to Folate deficiency. Think about it lol.

Also i've noticed that my mild eye ptosis (another sign to look out for, ime/imo) seems to be getting better, idk if that's coming from the Folate or the B12, but either way, seems i'm on the right track imo.

Also, too much B12 gobbles up Methylfolate in the CNS, at least from what i've noticed so far, and while i really like how 30mgs of B12 feels to me, i think 5mgs of B12 is likely plenty. But if you take more B12, you'll need more Methylfolate to fill the gap, which maybe could be useful in cases of severe deficiency (such as myself) but otherwise it's better to stick with more appropriate amounts of B12, but ime the Methylfolate level should be higher than the B12 level, feeling/sensory-wise.
 
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Oh wow this is quite profound my friend. I've often asked myself if I was also to be placed on a spectrum of neuro divergence where I would actually be placed by professionals. Sometimes I feel like a stimmed out guy, other times a forgetful hyper ADHD million miles a minute, forget where I was in the middle of my sentence kinda person and other times I feel super tapped in and able to make parallel subjects conflated. I also was dosed heavily with vaccines and suffered a rare childhood illness that nearly killed me, called Kawasaki Disease. Many theorize it's vaccine injury as symptoms parallel cardiac damage in those cases. Regardless I survived and also am a MTHFR .. Thought it was just my hot headed Italian side but turns out I'm a legit mutant! Rad!

Anyways, I've been super onto the methylated supplementation and just recently started NAD+ NMN and NR. The IN spray is a spicy meatball per se, but abortion is great and energy levels are rocking! Will move to sublingual powder dosing when I finish this Renue bottle.

Happy healing mate!
 
Update​

I did a *ehem* bioassay using Methylene Blue (MB) as the MAOI in some aye.

Dosage:
  • 30mg (60 drops of 1% MB solution)*
  • 5g MHRB
Age, Weight, Sex:
  • 21 years old
  • 69kg (nice)
  • Male
Prep Methodology:

60 drops of 1% MB solution was prepared in a shot glass.

5g of MHRB was added to a sauce pan, 200ml of water was added to it, 30ml of distilled vinegar was added to the mixture. The brew was brought up to 80°C using a larger pan as a hot water bath. after the brew was brought up to temperature one eggs worth of egg whites was added to the solution to clarify the tannins**. after 30 mins of brewing the solution was filtered 3 times to get the solid plant (and egg) matter out of the solution.

Rout of ingestion:

30mins before I took the brew I drank the MB. I topped up the shot glass with Pepsi a few times to wash it all out. after 30mins I drank they aye brew.***

Timeline:

T 00:00
MB drank

T 00:05
Some cognitive effects were noted, slight increase in cranial pressure.

T 00:25
I took a piss and it was light blue-turquoise

T 00:30
MHRB brew drank

T 00:40
Mild mood uplift of my mood. Slight euphoria less than a beer slightly more than a cigarette. This effect persisted for the rest of the "trip"

T 03:00
Went to sleep because it was getting late and no notable effects were witnessed.

Post trip
I woke up feeling a bit ill, my piss was dark blue, and didn't have extraordinarily weird dreams.

Notes:

* I intended to take 1mg/kg took 0.5mg/kg because I am bad at math(each drop is 0.5mg)
** It clarified quite well. although it looked like purple vomit with eggy bits in it. (eww)
*** The aye brew didn't taste that bad. and it was clear to slightly cloudy in appearance.

Conclusion:

I believe that Methylene blue is viable as a MAOI if taken at a higher dose.
 
Josh.lobbs said:
* I intended to take 1mg/kg took 0.5mg/kg because I am bad at math(each drop is 0.5mg)
Click to expand...
Josh.lobbs said:
30mg (60 drops of 1% MB solution)*
Click to expand...
If you know that the solution is 1% MB, that equates to 10mg/mL. Therefore, you should be able to measure out your doses very easily with a medicine syringe. 3mL == 30mg, etc., etc. And 20 drops per mL sounds about right to me.

Thinking of doubling up the dose anytime soon? (Rather you than me, but then most people wouldn't want any of my vile-tasting potions anywhere near their lips either 😁 )(Harmala ftw tho ;) )
 
Update​


Dosage:
  • 60mg (120 drops of 1% MB solution)
  • 10g MHRB *
Age, Weight, Sex:
  • 21 years old
  • 69kg (nice)
  • Male
Prep Methodology:

120 drops of 1% MB solution was prepared in a shot glass.

10g of MHRB was added to a sauce pan, 300ml of water was added to it, 30ml of distilled vinegar was added to the mixture. The brew was brought up to 80°C using a larger pan as a hot water bath. i did not use eggwhite to clarify this time and i regret it**. after 30 mins of brewing the solution was filtered 2 times to get the solid plant matter out of the solution.

Rout of ingestion:

30mins before I took the brew I drank the MB. I topped up the shot glass with Pepsi a few times to wash it all out. after 30mins I drank they aye brew.***

Timeline:

T 00:00
MB drank

T 00:05
Some cognitive effects were noted, slight increase in cranial pressure.

T 00:25
I took a piss and it was a solid cool blue

T 00:30
MHRB brew drank

T 01:30
mild cognitive effects were noted, slight euphoria, some very mild Closed eye visuals

T 02:00
detail in natural patterns (such as the veins on a leaf) became more defined

T 02:30
increased body feel and slight head high were noted

T 04:00
Went to sleep because it was getting late and no more notable effects were witnessed.

Post trip
I woke up not feeling as ill as i did last time, my piss was dark blue/green, and didn't have extraordinarily weird dreams.

Notes:
* i upped the dose of MHRB this didn't change much
** It tasted so so so bad. I ran out of eggs when i made the last aye brew and now i need to pick some more up.


Conclusion:

now i'm not as sure that methylene blue is as useful as i thought it was. my best guestimate is that it could see use as MAOI in aye in the 3-5mg/kg range. i am not willing to take that much methylene blue. not only because of the potential toxicity but also because it tastes awful.
 
Transform said:
If you know that the solution is 1% MB, that equates to 10mg/mL. Therefore, you should be able to measure out your doses very easily with a medicine syringe. 3mL == 30mg, etc., etc. And 20 drops per mL sounds about right to me.

Thinking of doubling up the dose anytime soon? (Rather you than me, but then most people wouldn't want any of my vile-tasting potions anywhere near their lips either 😁 )(Harmala ftw tho ;) )
Click to expand...
funny that you mention doubling the dose. XD
 
Try taking the Mimosa an hour into the MB instead of 30 minutes. Ime, DMT in liquid form is best absorbed an hour into Harmalas or Moclobemide, so it may be the same for MB too. MB may also have a bit of a difference in timeframe as well which may be worth exploring, so like it may take a bit longer than Harmalas or Moclobemide to more fully take effect, or it could have a similar timeframe to Harmalas or Moclobemide, at least as far as gut MAO-A inhibition goes. Another thing you can try is to encapsulate a few grams of Mimosa root powder and take that 30 minutes into the MB (which ime root powder is better absorbed 30 minutes into Harmalas or Moclobemide, tea is better an hour in), especially if it's good quality Mimosa inner root powder then 3 to 5 grams is very noticeable with fuller gut MAO-A inhibition, and is generally more potent than the same dosage in teas because some of the potency can be reduced when making teas, compared to the actual DMT content of the Mimosa itself, so whenever i'm testing things out for potency or activation purposes, i like to encapsulate a few grams of Mimosa which gives me a good estimate on it's potency and thus helps me know what to aim for when brewing so that i brew things properly and get as much of the DMT as possible. But basically the main factors i've found to be important in oral DMT activation is dosage of the MAO-A inhibitor (with higher dosages inhibiting gut MAO-A more fully and thus making the DMT more bioavailable), and the timing between the MAO-A inhibitor and the DMT, to allow for gut MAO-A to become more fully inhibited before consuming the DMT.

With that said though, what about smoked DMT some hours into MB? Notice any potentiation?
 
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