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[Mr.Peabody]

Hey nexian peeps! Yes, I said peeps.


So I have recently finished a successful DMT extraction, and I have an idea. Instead of taking my 1.5 g's of freebase, and divvying it up into a few different changa's, I just kept it in a little dropper vial, dissolved in ethanol(everclear). I tried something a couple nights ago. I dropped about 7 drops onto a bowl of some herbs (my special herb mixture I've been working on), let it dry for a half hour or so, hit that baby, and was promptly cruising hyperspace. I really like this idea! It means I can vary what I take it with as far as how I'm feeling. Maybe one day I'm feeling like changa made with concentrated harmalas/caapi, and another day I am just feeling like lotus flowers. It also lets me precisely measure what's going in my bowl, rather than being at the mercy of visually guessing, or measuring out changa, just to get that hot-spot that throws me over the edge.

So, I have a few questions for the more chemically inclined.

First, how long could one expect DMT to last without serious degradation in 99% ethanol, in the freezer? I am aware that storing DMT in a salt form, or as dry freebase crystals is optimal, but would it be likely to last a year or better in ethanol? I hope it won't sit around too much longer than that, anyway! I guess my main question is, if one was planning on using up a batch of DMT within about a year (this is how my last extraction played out), which would likely be more degraded, the year-old changa, or the year old DMT-ethanol. That's assuming similar storage conditions.

Are there any health risks to inhaling small quantities of ethanol, if my single serve batch of changa were not quite dry yet?

Would it be detrimental to the DMT being smoked if there was undried ethanol at the time of smoking? From the one trial I conducted so far, it seems to actually help. 7 drops is about 10mg of DMT in the concentration I have, but it sure seemed to be more than a 10 mg trip!

This is not intended to replace traditional changa, but is merely a different way to go about it. One of the other benefits I find appealing is that there is no loss from mixing changa, and having some residual DMT stuck to the container. It's being mixed in the same place it's being smoked! The drawback to this is that there could likely be buildup over time, leading to unexpectedly intense trips. This has happened to me in the past, anyway. So, of course, it is a good idea to cycle some non-DMT leaf into the bowl to reclaim DMT, and also to clean the smoking apparatus regularly.

My final question for now is this: If one were to consume a small amount of ethanol with a RIMA/MAOI, say about 2 ml worth (which in my case would be a 100 mg dose of DMT), would there be any negative affects or health risks? It seems like such a small amount of alcohol, and it would be such a clean way to take DMT orally. If this is fine, it would also mean that the vial of DMT can be used for oral trips, and smoked trips whenever desired. I like that aspect most of all!

Thank you! Any advice and knowledge is always appreciated!

 

[Mr.Peabody]

So is this nothing new? Did I ask easily found questions? Sorry if the answers are yes and yes, and please carry on about your day!

 

[changalvia]

I actually found this post pretty interesting. Was waiting for another to reply

The whole dropper to bong thing sounds pretty sweet

But not as cool as sublingual tincture

If I tried I would do it with lemon juice but separately, gemini vials 8)

If that worked (I'm sure it would) I might consider trying a mixed tincture in the correct ratios

With as little lemon juice as required

Would be cool to hold spice in your mouth while it activated

Just need to do another manske sometime and get hold of some fumaric acid, would prefer it as fumarates first before citrate
:thumb_up:

 

[Mr.Peabody]

Cool! Thanks for the response changalvia. Sorry for being kind of negative. It's just that it seems like no one has been responding to things I say on here!

Anyway, I actually read when I was researching this idea that sublingual DMT doesn't work very well, and it burned a good bit. So that's why I was thinking this would be an easy way to dose for an oral DMT trip. Just measure out the dosage according the the volume of the tincture, add it to a drink, and sit back!

 

[Parshvik Chintan]

i can't speak to the durability of dmt in solution, but i would think storing it in the freezer would help prevent degradation (But then it might increase the rate of oxidation for all i know).

however i am pretty sure inhaling minimal amounts of ethanol is fairly safe, though if you breathe enough of it, i think you can get drunk (doubtful on 7 drops worth, lol).

you should be fine taking 2ml of alcohol with a RIMA (don't some traditional ayahuasca-consuming cultures drink fermented alcoholic brews with their ayahuasca?), though if you wanted you could easily evap the alcohol.

 

[steppa]

however i am pretty sure inhaling minimal amounts of ethanol is fairly safe, though if you breathe enough of it, i think you can get drunk (doubtful on 7 drops worth, lol).

The power of ethanol shouldn't be underestimated. A few times I dissolved BHO in about one or two ml of 96% ethanol to vape it in an e-cig. Even after only a few hits effects of the vaped ethanol were slightly present.

 

[Mr.Peabody]

The power of ethanol shouldn't be underestimated. A few times I dissolved BHO in about one or two ml of 96% ethanol to vape it in an e-cig. Even after only a few hits effects of the vaped ethanol were slightly present.

Very interesting. Perhaps I'll try the worst case scenario of about 7 drops of ethanol on non-psychoactive leaf, with no drying time, to see if it is noticeable.

When I tried it, the bowl made a small fizzing sound, which leads me to believe that the ethanol was not fully dried. I actually wonder if small amounts of ethanol can enhance vaporization of DMT, and maybe even allow more to vaporize overall. I know when dealing with any smokeable that a good moisture content in the leaf makes for a smoother, more flavorful smoke. So, maybe this is along those lines.

 

[Infundibulum]

When I tried it, the bowl made a small fizzing sound, which leads me to believe that the ethanol was not fully dried. I actually wonder if small amounts of ethanol can enhance vaporization of DMT, and maybe even allow more to vaporize overall. I know when dealing with any smokeable that a good moisture content in the leaf makes for a smoother, more flavorful smoke. So, maybe this is along those lines.

I wouldn't worry about traces of alcohol especially of such minute caliber.

I also like your idea of storing dmt in ethanol in the freezer and applying dropwise onto herbs. It is a nice, sound concept. As for degradation, my first bet would be no, it won;t degrade with extended storage times, but on the other hand none has put that to test AFAIK. I do not see why dmt should degrade when stored in solution....

you should be fine taking 2ml of alcohol with a RIMA (don't some traditional ayahuasca-consuming cultures drink fermented alcoholic brews with their ayahuasca?), though if you wanted you could easily evap the alcohol.

But not all fermentations make alcohol, especially if there is not a good source of sugars plus a microorganism that ferments to alcohol...I doubt that ayas left for some days or months will develop any appreciable amounts of alcohols (i.e. 0.5% v/v and above)

 

[jamie]

I have a real crude psilocybe alkaloids extract that I dissolved into a tincture bottle with ascorbic acid and vinegar/water, and I store it in the freezer so it freezes solid until I want to dose. I used it sublingual and it worked but it has not been there long, but if that stays stable I am sure DMT in ethanol would.

 

[Mr.Peabody]

Well, the changa I made a year ago still works, but it definitely seems a bit weaker. That's not a very reliable call, though. I have never measured any out, going only by looks. I have not stored it in the best conditions, either. At least with this DMT-ethanol, I should be able to make pretty sound judgement on loss in potency in a year. It's recorded right here that 7 drops was a pretty decent trip. I'd say it was about 2/3 breakthrough.

So maybe in a year it might be the same! I'll make sure to keep some around for testing purposes.

It seems like this is the most loss free system. I let my DMT extracted from my NP solvent dry in a pyrex, scraped what I could, weighed it, put it into a little dropper bottle, and washed off any remaining residue in the pyrex, which also went into my dropper bottle. Filled it up to an ounce of total fluid, and did the math! I also used the dropper to measure out about how many drops it takes to make 1 ml, so I had a decent guess about the volume per drop.

The final bit I have to add is to be careful when adding the drops to the bowl of the pipe. Too much liquid will run down the hole and be lost, so bigger doses require more leaf.

 

[Sabnock]

Hey Peabody, any thought to dropping a couple drops into a cup of tea maybe with some harmalas from a tincture as well? I myself am exploring tinctures but instead of using ethanol and freebase, I convert the freebase to salt form via vinegar and wanna use some in a cup of tasty tea for an easy to drink Ayahuasca. So far I only have my harmalas in tincture form and am hoping my dmt tincture will be done in a few days or so.

 

[alert]

Hey Peabody, any thought to dropping a couple drops into a cup of tea maybe with some harmalas from a tincture as well? I myself am exploring tinctures but instead of using ethanol and freebase, I convert the freebase to salt form via vinegar and wanna use some in a cup of tasty tea for an easy to drink Ayahuasca. So far I only have my harmalas in tincture form and am hoping my dmt tincture will be done in a few days or so.

No reason this wouldn't work. Although im not sure how tasty the tea will be after adding the vinegar tincture.

 

[Mr.Peabody]

I agree with alert. It seems like it should work. One of the reasons I like the ethanol is that it shouldn't add any flavor to a drink, besides DMT, flavor. So I figured a drink with citric acid should be good, as the sour should cancel the bitter pretty well. A glass of orange juice should taste fairly normal, I think. I'll give it a try hopefully next weekend.

Let us know how yours works out, Sabnock!

 

[Sabnock]

Well, just tried my dmt containing extract tincture with some moclobemide as to determine the dose before taking it with the Harmalas in the coming days. First and foremost, hardly any taste at all surprisingly, a dropper full per shot of apple juice, and the apple juice really masks the taste, awesome. Secondly, it took me 5 dropper fulls or 5 shots before I felt it was strong enough for me. Granted, I know I lost a good bit of the goods during my extraction process as I'm currently in between solvents, but all in all at least it's something. There's about 50 mls or so left in the tincture bottle due to me needing to use a little more vinegar than I wanted to, but it worked so I'm not complaining lol. Hopefully tomorrow or so I will take a good dose of my Harmala tincture and then take some more and see how it goes. And imo, you can't even taste the vinegar with these tinctures, any taste comes from the compounds themselves which there is hardly any taste at all.


As for my extraction technique, I've really been thinking about just making a dmt containing brew with acacia rather than extracting as its much easier than an extraction for me currently is and while the taste of a brew can be rough I just need to man up, at least for now. The tincture though, if there were no issues with the extraction process, is probably the way to go imo. I used the dmt goo, not crystals, with crystals I'd imagine it would be hella awesome.

 

[Mr.Peabody]

Well I'm glad there was no taste! I was hoping to conduct some tests of my own this weekend, but was unable.

This idea for DMT dissolved in fluid is an attempt to have the best of both worlds, of smoking and orally administered. When it comes to mimosa, I personally like the extraction route. There is no keeping that stuff in my belly in tea form. So, I definitely recommend that path with mimosa. For other sources, like chacruna, it makes more sense to do a brew. You'll probably get the most out of it that way.

 

[Mr.Peabody]

I just wanted to update this post a bit with some new info.

I have used this method of changa quite a bit now, and am very happy with it.

It makes measuring the dose very easy. No more eyeballing it, no more weighing out changa only to get a hot spot that rocks your little ape brain unexpectedly. I love knowing exactly what I'm getting. At the concentration my spice is dissolved in ethanol, 5 drops is a fairly mild time--about 7.5 mg of DMT--and 10 drops is solid breakthrough land.

I still recommend letting the bowl dry before smoking, but that actually seems optional. I have dropped my DMT solution directly on to the bowl full of herbs, and smoked immediately. There is a bit of an alcohol flame, but it doesn't seem to affect potency, or smoke-ability. Warning: Keep in mind, I use a water bong, which should extinguish any flame and cool down the vapors before they get to my mouth. I definitely do not recommend using alcohol-wet changa with a normal pipe, which could lead to burns.

If one is intending for multiple breakthroughs in an evening, or enjoying spice with friends, it would work out quite well to have multiple bowls already loaded up. Doing this, one could have a bowl for lotus changa, one for caapi leaf changa, one for a blend, and so on. So, as the session moves along, one could have a progression of herbs, tailored to fit whatever is desired. Making changa on demand allows for such flexibility!

The oral-administration of DMT dissolved in ethanol seems to work fine, too. I measured out about 50 mg worth of DMT (about 33 drops) and had a nice mild journey. The alcohol does not seem to impact the experience, as it is a really tiny amount that should be metabolized by the time the DMT hits anyway.

I have been keeping my DMT-ethanol in the freezer, and there doesn't seem to be any issues with solubility. Nothing has precipitated out, besides a thin layer of fine silt-like particles (likely impurities from the MHRB that were extracted with the DMT). To be sure, the first few times I used my solution I let it warm up before measuring, but I realized that was not needed. It can be taken straight from the freezer, to the bowl, then right back to the freezer.

 

[FloorFan]

WOW, this is all very interesting! To be clear, can one use 91% isopropyl alcohol or should it not be considered? I'm thinking only for changa or enhanced leaf. If it's not a good idea, what types of ethanol and the percentage range would work?

 

[DreaMTripper]

It makes measuring the dose very easy. No more eyeballing it, no more weighing out changa only to get a hot spot that rocks your little ape brain unexpectedly. I love knowing exactly what I'm getting. At the concentration my spice is dissolved in ethanol, 5 drops is a fairly mild time--about 7.5 mg of DMT--and 10 drops is solid breakthrough land.

Hahaha

This looks a great idea! Nice work!

WOW, this is all very interesting! To be clear, can one use 91% isopropyl alcohol or should it not be considered? I'm thinking only for changa or enhanced leaf. If it's not a good idea, what types of ethanol and the percentage range would work?

I would guess ethanol is a better one to use for instant dosing its safer for you if any is left.
You could dry some vodka or polish spirit or even better everclear as recommended by MrPeabody.

Would using a water bong with ice cold water salty increase safety by cooling any ethanol vapours and extracting it from the air as it bubbles through? Would it pinch some of the DMT also or would it bubble through too quick?

 

[ymer]

WOW, this is all very interesting! To be clear, can one use 91% isopropyl alcohol or should it not be considered? I'm thinking only for changa or enhanced leaf. If it's not a good idea, what types of ethanol and the percentage range would work?

I would not recommend Isopropyl Alcohol unless it's completely dry, the taste of the fumes even without heat are very nasty.

 

[Mr.Peabody]

^^^ I completely agree, IPA would be rough, unless one was sure the changa blend was dry. Drinking alcohol would be a better choice.

Would using a water bong with ice cold water salty increase safety by cooling any ethanol vapours and extracting it from the air as it bubbles through? Would it pinch some of the DMT also or would it bubble through too quick?

It may make it easier to smoke in general by cooling it down more, but it's probably not needed for safety purposes. I have noticed no extra heat when smoking alcohol-damp changa. I use a 10 inch bong, which even without water would probably be fine. The important thing is to not try smoking a blend wet with alcohol only a few inches away from your face and mouth!