Mimosahuasca, minimum rue for inhibition?

[BananaForeskin]

From what I've read, the maximum safe dose for Syrian rue is 3.5 grams. If I'm wrong at this point, correct me. Anyway, I was wondering if anyone knew what the minimum dose was for MAOI inhibition, or rather enough inhibition for DMT to be orally active. My daemonic familiar is contemplating a mimosahuasca journey, but is feeling a mite cautious and does NOT want to get on the bad side of rue.

If anyone has a favorite mimosahuasca recipe, that would also be an appreciated addition to this thread!

 

[consciousness]

I'm glad you posted this, I've been wondering the same thing. Swim has chewed up and swallowed 1 gram of rue a few times with no ill effects, outside of the awful taste. So far he hasn't tried any more than that. He's still waiting for his scale to get off of back order but is interested in trying pharmahuasca when it arrives.

 

[lyserge]

From what I've read, the maximum safe dose for Syrian rue is 3.5 grams. If I'm wrong at this point, correct me. Anyway, I was wondering if anyone knew what the minimum dose was for MAOI inhibition, or rather enough inhibition for DMT to be orally active. My daemonic familiar is contemplating a mimosahuasca journey, but is feeling a mite cautious and does NOT want to get on the bad side of rue.

If anyone has a favorite mimosahuasca recipe, that would also be an appreciated addition to this thread!

That's incorrect, it's safe at higher doses if you're on the proper diet, but more than 3 grams is probably unnecessary for inhibition; any more than that and it'll just make you sicker. I'd recommend trying various amounts of Rue on its own; I usually take 1 teaspoon for basic minimal effects, and 2 teaspoons for stronger effects, but I'm tall and skinny with a fast metabolism so you might need more or less. It's definitely psychoactive on its own (light tracers at smaller doses, stronger tryptamine-like CEV at higher doses), and you'll feel the inhibition taking effect in your stomach. Note that Rue is not the same as B. caapi; caapi seems to be much warmer and friendlier, whereas some find Rue to be "evil". I recommend taking the seeds directly with a glass of water; I've gotten very sick drinking too much of the tea before, but others on here prefer tea. Good luck.

 

[۩]

I never found rue to be evil...in fact traditionally it's incense was used to ward off evil...
I've communed with the spirit of rue occasionally.
He (yes, he) is very sassy, ancient, and wise.

I'd be curious to hear if others have heard him, and how they interpreted his voice and words.


I think 2g is the minimum, though I am not positive. It's worked for me. I always found 3 to be too much.

 

[BananaForeskin]

I haven't tried caapi yet, but 3g rue on the shelf is worth more than 100g caapi in the webstore, if you catch my meaning. I know rue is sometimes considered evil; but his/her/its (I've heard people call rue a woman before) roots lie more within my own preferred spiritual culture than caapi. The harsh deserts of central Asia, haoma cults and esotericism. Anyway, I'm curious. Thanks for the input, guys.

 

[Rivea]

An extraction started by grinding 10 grams syrian rue seeds into a fine powder using a small coffee grinder. This was mixed with 1 gram ascorbic acid and about 50 ccs of distilled water. This was very lightly boiled for 45 minutes in a 150 ml bromex beaker on a hot plate keeping the total volume nearly constant by adding a little water during the process. It was allowed to cool, and the resulting pulpish mash was pressure filtered through a cloth disk placed inside a 60 cc syringe. It was then vacuum filtered hrough a coffee filter. This supernatent was set aside, and the seed pulp was put into the 150 ml beaker, 50 ccs water added without ascorbic acid. This was boiled lightly for 20 minutes, allowed to cool, and then the pulp was filtered using the same steps described above. In the end approximately 70 ccs of filtered supernatent was prepared.

Half of this fluid was consumed by the psycho adventurer in 30 minutes. He noted very light effects, mainly aberations to his hearing starting with slight tinnitus. Being brave he slowly sipped the rest of the concoction in the next 15 minutes. He found that the sounds in the house of the HVAC system were starting to get an odd character to them. He drew a nice warm bath and had to sit on the commode to purge his system before getting in the tub. He got up and walked around the house noticing equilibrium being off a bit and went back to see how the tub was filling. Suddenly he got slightly nauseated and had to vomit a slight amount of the meal that he had eaten 8 hours earlier. He found great relief in this much to his surprise and happiness. He had to sit again on the commode and he thinks that everything that had been inside him including his special tea was purged in this way. Again this came with feelings of great relief. Slight open eyed patterns started developing.

He climbed into the tub which was wonderfully warm and relaxed in the water for approximately 20 minutes. The water was still running and it sounded really wierd, but good. Once full the faucet was turned off, and he sat still enjoying the sensations of the warm water. His feet which were very cold prior to the bath warmed right up. Once he was warmed up completely he dried off and carefully navigated the dark house touching walls for guidance to the bed where his girlfriend was sleeping. He noticed red veil like structures in front of him in a part of the house that had no light at all. It was as if he had to break through this veil to get into his bedroom.

He had to be very careful because his equilibrium was and sense of depth perception was distorted. He climbed into bed and put on soothing sounds from his mp3 player through a pillow speaker that he always uses to sleep. This was 3:00 AM and the first fluids he consumed at 1:20 AM. He lay down and closed his eyes and noticed a greenish glow and what appeared to be yellow streaks shooting upwards towards a oddly blue background... a soft glowing blue. Then he noticed what appeard to be shapes like red blood cells floating either towards him or upwards depending on how he moved his eyes. He saw dim visions of naked people (men and women) one at a time that came and went, but sumetimes having very distinct body features but indisticnt faces. The he saw vision of being in a green forest that were vivid, and the red veil cam back and alll of these were in a jumble for a couple hours.

He got no sleep until 6:00 AM when finally he started drifiting off to a proper sleep with many dreams. Upon awakening at 10 AM he still had some issues with equilibrium, but these were gone befor noon and no effects were observed there after except for a slight feeling of lack of sleep.

The estimated dosage of alkaloids is 180 milligrams assuming that about 60% of the content of seeds containing an assumed 3% alkaloids. This dosage was taken intentionally to see if hallucinations from rue alone would manifest. This was also done as a control prior to a future planned trip with rue/mimosa which he will report in in the next couple of weeks. All in all he thought that it was not spectacular, but it was worthwhile and a relatively gentle introduction of things to come.

 

[BananaForeskin]

Post this... in the "First Steps in Hyperspace" section of the nursery.

 

[picatris]

The estimated dosage of alkaloids is 180 milligrams assuming that about 60% of the content of seeds containing an assumed 3% alkaloids. This dosage was taken intentionally to see if hallucinations from rue alone would manifest. This was also done as a control prior to a future planned trip with rue/mimosa which he will report in in the next couple of weeks. All in all he thought that it was not spectacular, but it was worthwhile and a relatively gentle introduction of things to come.

Hi rivea, welcome to the Nexus!

It's a great post, but I think your calculations are probably a bit off. Maybe you may want to clarify your math!

You can have up to 6% alkaloids in rue seeds. That should make for up to 600 mg of alkaloids, which for the most part would be harmaline, that should be about twice as active as harmine, the main active compound in Caapi. Even if you have 3% of total alkaloids in the seeds, this corresponds to about 300 mg of mostly harmaline or roughly the equivalent of 500-600 mg of Caapi alkaloids, a really heavy dose!

but great post, thanks for sharing!

 

[Rivea]

100 ml of water was used in the extractions, but after filtration ended up with only about 70 ml because of filter absorption (paper and cloth) and water retained in the seed pulp even with pressure filtration in a syringe. Perhaps more supernatent could have been coaxed out during coarse filtration using 20 cc syringes instead of 60 cc, but that was what was available. This means that the supernatent contains the alkaloids of ~7 grams of seeds. In addition because only 2 pulls were done, probably another 10% was lost (this is a SWAG). Therefore the 70 ml supernatent contined the alkaloids of ~6 grams of seeds.

The B-Carboline alkaloid content of syrian rue seeds varies between 2-6% (Ratsch, The Encyclopedia of Psychoactive Plants, pp 427). Therefore the total extracted extracts that the psychonaut consumed was somewhere in the range of 120 to 360 milligrams. Assuming a 3% strength results in a 180 milligram dose. Short of doing a full acid base extraction with careful technique and an assay of the particular batch of seeds, one can only speculate that the dose achieve falls into the range above.

So intentionally the dose was large, but not ridiculous. For a mimohuasca experience the dose would be halfed to approximately 3 grams equivallent seeds (pp717 of the same reference). Does this make more sense to you now?

By the way, thanks for the comments and the warm welcome.