Mind Maze Eternal Hell

[Psytherion]

I chose the title because I seemed to reach a point where it was as if I sprung a trap and that's where it took me. This won't be as descriptive as it could but that tends to happen when you forget fragments of the experience there.

The more I think of past journeys I've gone on from Mescaline, Mushrooms to Acid. They all seem to take me to the same mind maze eternal suffering and pain. And I'm often confused as too how to proceed in these experiences. Because I read a lot about ego death/transcendence so a lot of times I think oh I'm just supposed to surrender to it (meaning give up) which the more I do it I think I got it confused and that I'm actually just supposed to trudge through it. It's like all of time is crushed into that experience and there seems to be something looming behind me. The people that show up in my experience are all trying to get my attention and they seem scared of what will happen if I am caught by w/e that is (The only thing I can think of is Madness). Meanwhile I'm like well I have nothing too worry about right, but I continue trudge through this "soundwave I guess" anyway. Because I'm still not trusting of my own opinion on the matter. But I think that there is a sense I am going through for not just myself but others. Whether there is actually any truth to that or not, I am not sure. I spent most of my life thinking that the world was sick in a sense and that I would enter the sickness in order to change it, transform it somehow. Of course I could be wrong on that too.

To me we are all one being as far as what I've seen, but still confused as hell about everything. The experience seems almost like a test to see if I will go through with what I originally thought (Storming the Gates of Hell in a sense). Do we wake up from going through the pain and suffering of the world? Also it's difficult to make out when different things happened in this mind space. People I know show up in this mindspace and they are the ones trying to help me. But no matter what they do it seems to be wholly self willed from me to get through it. It's like they can't save me from w/e is going on and I am at that moment terribly worn down, it's like I've been hit with a tidal wave and now there is something else coming but I have little energy to be able to get away from it. It is like I'll feel in the experience as though there are close calls but I just seem to get away by luck it would seem.

And yet somewhere in the experience before or after not sure. There is a sense that one has tapped into something that other people have whether it's a musician like Lennon or someone else. It's like one can see the beauty in the mess. Also there is a sense that one is waking up from a dream and what is coming is like a dream come true everything you wanted even if you didn't know what you wanted. But I never seem to reach that because the eternal hell experience it would seem I have to go through first. I could have prolly rounded up this post a lot better, I'll see what I can add to it later.

One more thing I am pretty detached atm if that says anything about the current place I may explore in the experience.

 

[Pandora]

Lot of stuff here, and sounds like more to come.

I'm no therapist and I don't know you, so this is most likely, at best, projection . . .


I think when people talk about surrender in the psychedelic realm, they don't mean giving up per se, . . . . absolutely do not give up on things like love or hope. I think what they mean and I know what I mean, when I talk about surrender, is surrender your need to control things. Come to understand that all that control you thought you had, you told yourself you had, even if it's true in consensual reality, doesn't work in these realms. So, just try to let it go. . . . To me this is not the same at all as giving up. It's more like embracing acceptance, it's like taking things to the next, often higher, level. It is letting go of the attachment to self, to sense of I, even to one's personal history and memory, at least for a short while, and seeing what comes, he he and if I can remember it when it is all over. THAT is what surrender in the psychedelic realm means to me.

The stuff lurking in the wings, breathing down your shoulder, I would guess is cultural programming pressing down on you. What is your age? Pick a number . . . say it is 33 years. Well, crap, for like the past 31 to 32 years for as long as you can remember, the culture that you live in, are surrounded by, etc. has programmed you to believe that taking entheogens is wrong, that there is in fact an anthropomorphic, masculine God entity that not only cares about our petty matters but also judges and grants access to a better kind of afterlife than might otherwise be available . . . . . That Hell exists and you are going there for your actions.

Also, directly related to the paragraph above, the idea of madness comes directly into play. The culture says you are mad to even do this, you will go mad if you do this too much, that when you do this you are clinically mad. . . . . All that madness starts to add up and get a bit burdensome, don't you think?

I believe you are in this for yourself and others and you are perceiving sickness all around you, and perhaps even some within yourself. That's what these medicines do. They work against government, religions and dominant culture by breaking down boundaries, re-defining sickness and dis-ease, etc.


Is this a personal test or is this perhaps a painful expansion of personal awareness? There is a crapload of suffering in life, all around us, in all stages. It is hard to take all that in. . . .really hard, and to know what to do or to say. . . becoming aware that not only a limited group of like minded, appearance, raised or whatever individuals feel the pains and passions that you do but that BILLIONS do. That is so freakin' heavy . . . .


I think you have perhaps tapped into several big truths, be they personal or universal. And absolutely, we find so much hope and love and triumph arising from this suffering and these challenges . . . . it doesn't make it right, it doesn't make it more energizing, but wow we can then see so much stark and raw BEAUTY in the people and situations around us, even when it's all coming down around us. . . . . I don't know. A duality kind of thing.

Awakenings and growth can be painful, but I truly do believe they are more than worth it. I hope you find what you are looking for or at least gain a bit of personal insight as you go through your integration process. Please keep us posted, okay?

 

[Psytherion]

Wow great reply thanks, I'm 26 by the way. Reading up on the stuff revising my opinion was what got me to think that my idea of surrender was wrong. Thinking on it I guess my first experience I was confronted by the idea of the masculine god but I decided to just go through it. Even though I don't particularly feel guilty for any reason to have to go there. It was more from a sense that it was wrong that others would go so I decided well I guess I'll join them. I didn't go through that Hell then though when I had that confrontation. When I confronted it he just fell away and I saw the faces of people I loved kind of rise up in a sense and they seemed greatful for what I had done. Of course maybe they didn't rise up I just went down. So that's why I was thinking maybe it was like ok you said you'd go through well have fun.

The idea that it is cultural programming could very well be true. There is sometimes a sense like different things I went through in life had a much deeper affect on me than I would have first thought. I'm usually of the opinion that I handled the stuff pretty well hmm maybe not. And there is a place it seems where people in my mind seem to understand that I went through a lot. Not to say other's haven't had there fair share of thing's to deal with though.

As far as what kind of test well I don't know maybe both. There is also a sense in my experience hard to say where to put this exactly. That everyone is in on some surprise party for whoever awakens. It's like I'm going through all kinds of confusion and basically being told like oh this is what you are. And meanwhile I'm thinking no kinda rejecting things more of a reaction I guess, but then noticing that and going deeper. And everytime I go deeper it's like I start to feel a bit more excitement as to well what is it. It seems like the Universe is pulling out all the stops there for me it's pretty amazing. And it's like nope not time yet, I get the impression in that particular place that theres a huge awakening comeing I usually feel like oh the World is going to wake up when I do. But usually I tend to fall back to well, prolly everyone feels that, just to see most are still asleep. I mean sure part of that dream in hyperspace or whatnot is for World awakening but Idk.

But I always get the impression that I am an example of what could be (example to live up to kinda thing). Like how I go about life and such. Does everyone get that impression at some point? I mean I'm in no way perfect and not trying to say hey look at me and how awesome I am or anything lol but yet that is what shows up.

Plus I was always big on feeling before but have since fallen into a sense of just not feeling the world around me like I used too.

 

[Adjhart]

Some tidbits of advice that should help you:

I don't believe in ever trying to make sense of a journey during the journey. I find that if I simply 'experience' the journey, without the interjection of my conscious thought, it is much more enjoyable, AND easier to recall.

I also think that's what's meant by 'surrender'. Letting your conscious thought go, and getting it out of the way. 'out of the way = open up'. Historical mystics have described it as becoming a conductor for cosmic energy or a divine essence - to let it flow THROUGH you.

You definitely 'tapped into' a realm that the likes of Lennon has known.
More people know about that/those realms than you know.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that psychedelics literally 'tune' a sixth sensory of ours. When this sensory is tuned, we are able to see the universe as it is just beyond the observable reality. It makes such simple sense when being shown at the time, and of course it's hard when we come back and find that even 10,000 words cannot adequately describe it.

This is what integration is for. Every bit as important as the journey is the proper reflecting. And what good is to gain an insight with reflection if you're not going to put it to use? When you take complete steps in the cycle in this way, your spiritual self is much better prepared for the next journey. If there are unresolved issues even subliminally, they can impede your goal of unbridled exploration.

Hope this helps ;P

 

[Psytherion]

So I was thinking about this a lot last night and I think I remember more of that place. My experiences are always very human most of the time I don't see aliens or any of that. Though I have seen what I guess could be classified as an angel once.

So going back to my past for a moment I grew up in a Christian family so I certainly did hear a lot of the heaven and hell stuff growing up. I told my father a few times that I would go to hell in order to save other's, he obviously didn't like that one bit because well I am seen as going the wrong way.

So different times while on a psychedelic I would wonder well what if someone had to watch every single moment in existence. Well I think that triggered this Hell experience well this and what I stated in the past. That's where it comes to the point that I appear to be sound asleep in this place. And everyone I know is desperately trying to wake me (It is a very long way to the end of whereever I am). There all telling me you were right about basically me having to sacrifice myself. But I think when I start to awaken it's almost like is it already too late? When I percieve this Hell I lose all feeling whatsoever. It is like I am drained of whatever was inside me that allowed me to feel. This draining of feeling put's me in almost a type of catatonic state. I can recall the feeling well and I thought I could feel nothing for the longest time. It put me in kind of a thoughtless state and now I think I know why. I was horrified and it was as if it froze me in a sense.

In the experience there seems to be whatever is trying to take us in, Is that abyss one I created for myself? Then there's obviously the people, but in a way I almost think there was something beyond that, that was contacting me. But I remember very little of it. I almost feel there was something trying to help me, since perhaps the help from others and what I could do was not enough.

I'd almost swear that in the experience everyone is coming to help me as an apology. Like I have to face this Hell for the World and if they don't get through to me I may fail. I mean shit how does that work everyone I see is in dread over what's happening and yet there's a part of me that feels that while I was there. Maybe getting through it would turn out to be easier than I thought. That me just being me was actually able to withstand all the hell that was to come. In one sense it freezes me and another I almost think I feel like it was going to be easier than I thought. I'm so confused

 

[۩]

If the system was set up to collect there would be no need and no feasible indication for a single observer watching. It's watching itself in unwatchable ways for many reasons. Infinite. Everything already happened and it knows this but we are here now in slow motion and it collects. What essentially is feeding off of us is also feeding us the light that shines our shoes into motion. There is something beyond that. And there is something beyond that. Contact has been established and not in a way most people would believe or understand. It's all right here right now and it wants to help because precision and recalibration are the name of the game. The power of creation unchained by the prism of a person awaits to be prompted at the flood gates.

If the sheer intensity is freaking you out you have to learn to truly just let it rip you into a billion beautiful pieces. If you can not learn to consciously distinguish between what is intense and what is bad you will constantly be tested until you learn to melt.

Meditation.

Try getting rid of heaven and hell concepts.
Or any concepts at all for that matter.

 

[Adjhart]

If the system was set up to collect there would be no need and no feasible indication for a single observer watching. It's watching itself in unwatchable ways for many reasons. Infinite. Everything already happened and it knows this but we are here now in slow motion and it collects. What essentially is feeding off of us is also feeding us the light that shines our shoes into motion. There is something beyond that. And there is something beyond that. Contact has been established and not in a way most people would believe or understand. It's all right here right now and it wants to help because precision and recalibration are the name of the game. The power of creation unchained by the prism of a person awaits to be prompted at the flood gates.

If the sheer intensity is freaking you out you have to learn to truly just let it rip you into a billion beautiful pieces.

Meditation.

Try getting rid of heaven and hell concepts.
Or any concepts at all for that matter.

This. The keyword here was Mediation. If you explore meditation, you'll understand that everything a journey needs to be, is already with IN you. Any manifestations of archetypes from the secular world, such as angels and heaven and hell, are false. They are noise. They will only cloud and confuse your trip. The only truth you should focus on is emanating from that one single point inside of you. The practice of meditation is to learn to get rid of the noise. This is surely not an easy thing to do, and people spend their entire lives mastering it. Humans who can truly use meditation in it's most efficient capacity can experience most if not all of the same things one does on DMT.

You talked about being in that thoughtless state. That's what you want. If you are thoughtless, as in, your conscious thought isn't anywhere to be found, (likely because it was just obliterated) then the only source of information you get is the one that comes from inside you. At this point you can, as I mentioned, have the energy flow through you. You're it, and it's you, remember?

You have to remember that in this world, in this universe, and especially on journeys, you are not merely watching the show. You are a participator. A creator.

 

[Psytherion]

Your opinion on archetypes interest's me, I've wondered different times on and off trips if they were there just to throw someone off in a sense. Like I said earlier I only saw that once and it was basically a being filled with light. In the moment I thought it was me that it was like a reflection of me or something.

And I do believe I had gone through something along the lines that everything that is happening already happened. That I was you and you were I. Thinking about it I guess I've always had this idea that I would go through some of the darkest stuff and that would somehow slingshot me to something more. Almost like a key to transcend in a way or wake up.

 

[cubeananda]

We need to be brought to states of unutterable futility. May this isn't the ultimate state, but we kick and scream so much on the way...

And how are we brought to such futility?

I don't know I guess it's different for each of us. It seems like psychonauts are lucky in that regard.

The state I am referring to is like this;
Everything has already happened but this is not a rehearsal. I could be dead already, I could die very soon. I will never die. Maybe experiences will keep happening or maybe not but that really has nothing to do with me. I don't exist. I don't fucking exist. My heart doesn't exist. I am not a factor in this situation. I don't know anything and what is possibly the "truth" of my situation no longer matters.


We can read all of those sentences, but when we come to that state it won't make much of a difference (perhaps for integration it will) nonetheless we are made stronger by these experiences and we come closer to knowing who "I am"

 

[Psytherion]

Thinking more on my experiences I remember how some more turned out. So as I've stated before, a few times as I was young I stated to my Father him being a Christian (I like going the opposite direction apparently from what Christians percieve as right). That I would go to Hell to ensure everyone got through it (which too me I think is just our collective judgements on one another) So the substance proceeds to do a sweep over my life basically showing my life is a living embodiment of that statement, Holy shit lol. It's really got a whole Christ Consciousness vibe to it. Like I'm doing this for the World, wow what an opportunity.

 

[Psytherion]

This song actually remind's me a lot of what I see when dosed.