Mini A/B on the Brown Goo Naptha

[mob.socratic]

Greetings,

This journey began with 500g MHRB, pre-powered, and Whatcha's Tek. This was my third time to the dance going the STB route, first with pre-powered.

http://forums.mycotopia.net/holding-tank/58086-whatchas-easy-mhrb-stb-extraction-step-step-pictorial.html

Followed this tek pretty strictly, but only used one milk jug. Same ratios though, concerning lye, water, bark.

Pulled with 400ml Naptha, four times, and all of them were reddish brown. Performed two Sodium Carbonate washes, with little improvement to the overall situation. Naptha was freeze preciped and a brown waxy oilly goo was then fan dried.

The archived, sure-fire advice is to perform a mini A/B to clean this up. However, when describing the "mini" version, a defatting step, performed on the acidified solution, is never mentioned. Isn't this kinda important?

Or, maybe I am missing some fundamental aspect of moving the spice from acid to base. Does simply making the goo acidic, then back to basic, really remove anything? It seems like all the same gunk is still going to be there in the solution.

Or maybe think of it this way... if one is not going to do a defat on the acidic solution, why wouldn't you just do an "mini" STB?

can anyone help me understand this process a little better?

many thanks,
m.s
edit:sorry, can't get the hyperlink to cooperate.

 

[Dug]

Hi mate, welcome to the nexus.

Can you give some more details? Specific ratios, temperature, what NaOH and Naphtha did you use, etc?

We may be able to help you out some more then. The only advice I can offer now, is try to avoid fan drying. If you need to fan dry, you did something wrong. Freeze precipitated crystals will dry within minutes without aid.

There are many factors which would have caused this, so it's pointless trying to guess what went wrong. Feel free to offer some more insight on any "fishy"-according to your opinion- details. Do you think you might have pulled a little bit of emulsion when pulling?
How long did you let it rest within the milk jug, after you added the Naphtha and stirred?
How did you mix the Naphtha with the rest of the solution? Did you shake/stir/gently rock the jug?

Cheers,
~Dug

 

[mob.socratic]

Hi mate, welcome to the nexus.

Can you give some more details? Specific ratios, temperature, what NaOH and Naphtha did you use, etc?

455g MHRB, 455g 100% NaOH Rooto Lye, approx 1892ml Distilled Water (1/2 gal), 400ml Vm&P Naphtha pulls, used 2qt total. Naphtha pulled warm, in the type of water bath described in Whatcha's Tek. I suppose if I was a good scientist, I would fill my sink and tell you the exact temp of the water bath. Well, crap, wait a sec.....
Water bath of 130F/54C

We may be able to help you out some more then. The only advice I can offer now, is try to avoid fan drying. If you need to fan dry, you did something wrong. Freeze precipitated crystals will dry within minutes without aid. There are many factors which would have caused this, so it's pointless trying to guess what went wrong. Feel free to offer some more insight on any "fishy"-according to your opinion- details. Do you think you might have pulled a little bit of emulsion when pulling?

Well, I got the reddish brown colored Naphtha. Similar to these posts....

where's the d? - FAQ - All your basic questions and answers - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus
Brown Naphtha! (STB) - FAQ - All your basic questions and answers - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

How long did you let it rest within the milk jug, after you added the Naphtha and stirred?
How did you mix the Naphtha with the rest of the solution? Did you shake/stir/gently rock the jug?

First pull sat for 12 hours, Second pull 24 hrs, third pull 48 hrs, fourth pull was 10+days...I went out of town, it was a good while.

I gently rock the vessel, I am familiar with emulsions, and I know a few things about avoiding them at all costs. Naphtha was gently agitated every hour throughout the night, turning slowly, end over end, and letting the Naphtha slide over the top, Also did this a few more times in the morning before pulling.

Hope this is enough info. I think I have a good idea of why this happened, you know, the old pre-powered STB route, pulling some reddish brown colored Naphtha, as opposed to the pee yellow. Some speculate that tiny particulates of MHRB are suspended in the Naphtha.

Here is a quote from Acolon from the aforementioned thread:

Sorry, you got the STB Mystery Red junk.

An A/B is the best and pretty much only way to clean this us. We are not sure what it is, and why it only happens with STB using powdered bark, but it's happened to a lot of us.

BTW: it still yields spice, and still has the effects of normal spice, but it's tainted red.

I would really like someone's thoughts on the mini A/B and doing a de-fat. I really just want to clean this up a bit and need a little philosophic and applied chemistry guidance.

Many thanks for the reply my friend, I appreciate it.

 

[Dug]

Look, I'm far from a chemist, but SWIM has done enough pulls for me to encounter most of the bad situations that can occur during a pull.

I would definitely use more water in my next pull if I were you. On top of that, I suggest -contrary to what you may read in some teks- leaving the pull to rest for only a few minutes the first time, and then no more than a few hours. I don't know what the tek you used tells you to do, but leaving the naphtha in the jug for that long is just asking for trouble.

Try this for your next pull, it can't get any simpler:
use analogy: 1:1:1:15 (mhrb:lye:naphtha:water).
~mix the lye with cold water -stirr while mixing-, let it cool for 15 mins.
~add the mhrb, shake like mad. Let it rest for 15 mins.
~add the naphtha, gently tip the jug over a couple of times to mix it.
~wait 10 mins (preferably, leave the jug in front of your sub-woofer^^)
~After 10 mins pull, freeze, and enjoy some pure snowy crystals.

If your mhrb has the tendency to behave like that, being quick in your pulls is important. In the next pulls, leave the naphtha inside the jug for a few hours at most.


Now for your current situation, the only think that I would do is this:

dissolve all your pulled material in as little acetone as you can. A few drops, ideally. Do this in a small shot glass or something similarly small and with corners or curves in it's bottom.
Stir it with a pin or something, and let it rest for a few mins. You'll see that a small quantity of darker material will start accumulating in the bottom. Use a syringe or something similar to pull this tiny black or reddish speck of impurities out, or carefully spill the clear acetone in another glass, leaving the emulsions behind.

Doing this once should have cleared up your spice enough. Let the clear acetone evaporate and you're golden. Do not use any filters or other such malarchey.


Again, these are tricks that work for SWIM, applied in such situations. I hope I gave you some ideas.


Luck!

~Dug

 

[mob.socratic]

just wanted to follow up on this project.....

did the mini A/B, with the de-fat. everything came out great, super white, nice nice magic.

never weighed the final product, but felt good about the process in the end.