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mixing ayahuasca and jurema and other medicines

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hello nexus!

ive been dreaming with mixes for this medicines medicines: caapi, chacruna, chaliponga and jurema.

what are your toughts about it, how do you do it, proportions, etc?

i recently had a dream where i facilitated a cerimony wich brought me greatest results ever, and i would like to share it with you. (note that it was during a preparation of ayahuasca, during a day and a half, thats the reason we took so much medicine)
since it was a long cerimony i wont bother you with all the details, i will only give a desscription of the medicines taken, and just talk about the most important part

started with yopo T=00
00:45 followed with soft aya, santo daime style
03:00 strong aya (mel)
06:00 strong aya (mel)
09:00 strong aya (mel)
11:00 yopo + gentle JureHoasca
13:00 very clean HCL harmalas from sirian rue, infused in lotus tea
13:30 Brew made of acacia confusa, chacruna, chaliponga, mixed with Jurema full spectrum extract, in fumerate form

this is when things started to get interesting, it was allready daytime when we took the last medicine. i didnt felt much of a diference from the ayahuasca when i took the jurehoasca, but this medicine surprised me. with eyes open i would see that nice glow, and have the feeling that nature is alive. with eyes closed, the visuals started to be very interesting. it wasnt ayahuasca, but it wasnt jurema either, it was as all the medicines merged together to manifestate something new. usually with ayahuasca i have soft visions in a dark background. jurema allways gives me either very intense colored backgrounds, or multidimensional landscapes. this medicine gave me a soft blue blackground, and beings of the forest would appear and disappear on it. mother Jurema manifested its presence very strongly in that moment, and it was a huge blessing having her working there.

at 15:00(+-) Jurema suggests that it would be nice if i served some changa, the special one she says. so i get my most special blend
- herbs:Jurema:Caapi:Chacruna:Chaliponga:yopo (in a 2:2:2:1:1:0,5 proportion, all full spectrum) -

after serving everyone, and checking that everything was ok, i prepare a very nice pipe for me, and after smoking, nothing happened for 2 or 3 minutes maybe, and then very sudenlly i purge (after many years of ayahuasca, its rare for me to purge with any other medicine) and after that it started. all around me i can see the beings. indigenous beings of light, caboclos, budas and other beings from oriental lines, plant beings, alien beins, etc, etc, lots of the beings i usually invoque during the ayahuasca cerimonies, but usually just would lightly feel their presence, i was seeing them all. working on me, and the other people there, giving their blessings to us, to the medicines being prepared and the already made medicines that where in the space. there was clear comunication, they teached me important rituals, good herbs to add to certain medicines, gave me insights on my own issues, emotions, traumas i suffered recently that ive been working on, forgiveness...

all the times i had the luck of having contact with the spirit of the medicines themselves, i would say that ayahuasca looks/feels like a grandmother. not a very old one, but the wise abuela energy is defenitly there. jurema on other hand feels like a young woman, strong and rebelious, tricky sometimes. this time, as i said in the begining, it was like all the medicines merged together creating a new being. it defenitly was jurema energy, but older and wiser. a mature, compassionate woman, not a grandmother but a mature woman being able to fully access and bring to the field the power of all her ancestrality, her mothers grand mother, and so on, all the feminine power of many generations in the hands of this majestic Jurema Rainha da Floresta, healing us, nurturing us, filling us with love.

so i have to say, i am a big apologist of mixing many medicines, of course with an adequate ritual structure to create protection, and building our way up slowly and gradually.

happy travels everyone :)
I personally would ask you to stop facilitationg such things. You are not a trained healer and many things can go wrong. Whilst i can see this being fine for solo experiment, i dont agree with trying this out on others.

My reasons being that whilst some plants may be well tolerated, others may not be, and you may then encounter adverse reactions in others that may then be difficult to deal with, etc, etc, the list goes on. This may harm rather than heal.

Just a personal POV.
no, im not an healer, and you never heard such claims from my part.

but what i can claim is that i have almost a decade of contact with most of these medicines, and half a decade of training with people that have been consagrating these medicines traditionally, for their whole lifes.

i can also claim that ive done extensive research and solo experimentation wich each of these medicines on their own and with some/all of them together, that gave a good grasp on how things can go diferently with such experimentations.

2 years of facilitating cerimonies with some regularity (in a place where its allowed to do so) also gives one some discernement on how to act towards the imprevisibility of other people, and about set and setting that will adequate best for each combination.

for finals, all that together gives also a group solid enough of people following ones work, so that choosing people with enough experience, dedicated to the medicine and this path, and following the proper diet.
afterall, the same way i wouldnt give this type of combination to unexperienced people, or large groups, i also wouldnt bring unexperienced people or a large group for a medicine preparation ceremony, because this is serious work, it requires people that can be inside the fuerça with firmness and presence, praying and singing, to be able to some real medicine. of course im not a healer, but im well aware, that the real healers, in this type of context, are in the plant world, in the astral, the real curanderos are the beings that decide to manifest themselves when people do some real work with the medicine. and for that to happen, for those beings and forces to plasmate themselves in the medicine that is being made, it requires group strength and intention. and even with all this experience that the years start giving to a person, i cant do something like that alone. i could prepare the ayahuasca alone, without all this work, set and setting, but then it would just be an ordinary concentrated tea, and no medicine.

final note - i know the point where you want to get to, and i know this forum is much about harm reduction, but where im trying to get here is not to indiscriminatly keep adding random medicines to build up the experience to a stronger and stronger level, no, what im talking about, and trying to encourage here, is the expansion of a concept, do your homework, experiment proportions yourself, and sooner or later you will get to a nectar that is as strong and balanced as a regular ayahuasca (and personally for me, balance has being the greatest lesson coming from the medicines), but the other medicines will add character, will add their own personality. more then that, they will merge together, creating a new being, with a new personality and way of working. and this is for me the central point of the whole topic, and for me personally the most astonishing thing.
to make it more clear i will try to give a more concrete example, maybe ireacema or any brasilian member that has afinity with umbanda/candomblé traditions can shime in. in this traditions there are these so called lines of beings (called in brasilian egrégoras, or falanges). so Jurema, is not only a tree, is not only mother jurema or cabocla jurema. in first place, all the beings working under the comand of jurema will adopt that name, thas why there are the Caboclos (enchanted indians) from Jurema. Jurema can also manifestate herself in many forms, depending on the set and setting of the user. there is Jurema da Mata (forest Jurema), Jurema da Cachoeira, Jurema das Pedreiras, etc.. and so, this is jurema merging with the healing lines of other beings. why not create a medicine that will facilitate this type of work?
the Preto Velho that my friend incorporates, really likes to add a bit of my special changa to his tobacco pipe, and starts to channel really well! and my friend says that ayahuasca is to mellow for incorporation work, if he uses only jurema, it will come too strong and uncontrolable and with a more catimbó energy, its really like the entity and the person take some time to get in sync. with this mixture, he can do its work perfectly, and is allready getting to semi conscious incorporation, where the personality of the human being and the personality of the entity work together, instead of one taking over the other. so lets step outside the box, keep on spiraling and you might just get where no ones ever been ;)
MultiDimensionalTherapy said:
2 years of facilitating cerimonies with some regularity (in a place where its allowed to do so) .....

That's great to know. It seems i was being a bit overprotective because i didn't know of your experience.

Keep up the good work. Regards. 😉
so, the initial intention of this post was to share experiences and recipes. nobody came forward so i will share the recipe i used in this experience report.

i brewed 100g of ACRB, 4 x 3h, only light simmering, never letting it come to an hard boil. filtered, reduced to a manageble amount, reserved in the fridge for a week.

brewed 250gr of chacruna and 250 grams of chali together, 4 x 1h (but i feel the last boil was insignificant) filtered and reduced.

after one week in the fridge the ACRB had all the tannins precipitated in the bottom of container, so i pour it carefully to other container to separate the tea from the tannins, and mixed it with the chali\chacruna brew and reduced them together on low heat to one liter.

my intention by the time was to cold press some MHRB, but i didnt had the time, so i just added 500mg of very clean fumerates.

this mixture is very effective in 20 ml doses. i Call this brew the 3 Queens.

I extracted the harmalas from siryan rue. i cant find my notes so i can remember the amount. used extraction procedure as the many teks describe here, using salt to get hcl, basing it back with sodium carbonate, repeated the process 3 times.

made one liter of tea with plant i liked (lotus, alfavaca, royal mint), and added the harmalas hcl while the tea was hot. they dissolved pretty well while hot, but would precipitate again when the brew became cold. so i added 3 drops of vineager essence, and gave it a very short boil. problem solved. as soon as i find my notes ill post the amount of harmalas used, but i remember i did it in a way that 10ml of brew would be equal to 1g of seeds.

besides the way i described in the post above, i like to do 3 times sessions like this:

1st cup: 40 ml of harmala tea, 10 ml of 3 queens tea.
2nd cup: 20 ml of harmala tea, 20 ml of 3 queens
3rd cup: 10 ml of harmala tea, 30 ml of 3 quees (you can do 40 if you are really experienced)

i allways give 20 minutes between each dose of harmala and dmt, repeating each 2 hours. this way i feel the experience building up in a gradual and structurated way, and the high doses of dmt in the end are easier to handle .

happy travels, and remember, experiment in a safe set\setting. :)
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