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Mixing Mescaline with MDMA at low dosage levels - Mescaflipping?

Migrated topic.
Observant

Observant

Nothing Stops The Void
This entirely hypothetical thought crossed SWIMS mind a few times ... he just wants to get some of your thoughts and experiences on it.

What about mixing about 75-110mgs of Mescaline Acetate Crystals , with about 50-80 mgs of pure MDMA Crystals.
Both taken orally at the same time. (?)

I wonder if this could create a unique and worthwile experience.




Four Erowid Reports on this :

Cacti - T. pachanoi & MDMA (Ecstasy) - Erowid Exp - 'Desert Medicine Magic'

An Experience with Cacti - T. pachanoi & MDMA (Ecstasy). 'Desert Medicine Magic' by Activeternity
www.erowid.org

Cacti - T. peruvianus, MDMA & Cannabis - Erowid Exp - 'A Truly Divine State of Consciousness'

An Experience with Cacti - T. peruvianus, MDMA & Cannabis. 'A Truly Divine State of Consciousness' by Hypersphere
www.erowid.org

MDMA, Cacti - T. bridgesii & DMT - Erowid Exp - 'Feels Like Rolling for Twelve Hours'

An Experience with MDMA, Cacti - T. bridgesii & DMT. 'Feels Like Rolling for Twelve Hours' by Hypersphere
www.erowid.org

Cacti - T. pachanoi & MDMA (Ecstasy) - Erowid Exp - 'Overwhelming Body Buzz'

An Experience with Cacti - T. pachanoi & MDMA (Ecstasy). 'Overwhelming Body Buzz' by Leithwalk
www.erowid.org


Edit_ Quote, from the author of the last Erowid Link :
I'd expected mescaline and MDMA to be additive, instead they were multiplicative, increasing the potency of each other to an uncomfortable level. Too greedy by half! They could be a pleasant combination at a small fraction of the dose, maybe 30g of dried cactus and 1/2 MDMA pill, but I'm not in any hurry to find out. I think a 50g dose of cactus was also more pleasant and fresh cactus, although terrible to eat, was easier still on the stomach.
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Observant
 
I consider the MDMA feeling to be inferior to that of mescaline. Also the fact that MDMA doesn't last as long, it may just ruin the end of your mescaline trip.
 
I also prefer mesc to mdma now. BUT - I have mixed the two to very good effect, although the mdma does kinda override some of the subtleties of the mescaline.. but I think the mesc also adds some of its grounding qualities to the experience. I think its a worthwhile thing to try. I did something like that a few weeks ago with around 200mg san pedro extract and half an e. Had an amazing night, some of the best dancing I've done in ages :)
 
Hmm, personally speakin im not sure SWIM would enjoy that.
After tryin mesc, MDMA just feels dirty to me.
I hate that chemical edgyness that runs through your bones on it. Where as with mesc its just so natural feeling.
That being siad, swim has only experienced relativley low doses of mesc and wonders if higher doses may give rise to this type of edgyness....anyone?
 
It's very smooth and natural feeling even at very high doses, but the typical mescaline side effect kick in (stomach queasiness or even nausea, restlessness, etc.). The overall feeling of it is still the same: tons of euphoria, magical warm feeling in your heart, etc.

At small doses a lot of people find mescaline similar to MDMA, but at very high doses the mescaline experience becomes a deep visionary experience, pretty much on par with ayahuasca. The visions can be breathtakingly beautiful. It’s a visionary level not normally achievable with LSD. With the eyes closed you can see rich meaningful movie-like content, complete with sounds and voices, etc. I think Erowid states it nicely in this quote: “While LSD visions are often mosaics of rapidly morphing bizzarre scenes, mescaline visions tend to be more organized, less changing, and more familiar - the difference might be compared to watching a surreal music video compared to watching a movie.”

SWIM’s visions on mescaline often include Native American scenes. In nearly every mescaline vision SWIM has had at one point or another in the trip he visualizes what appears to be a Native American warrior shaman present. The shaman is not usually the same shaman, but is of obvious North American decent. He looks sort of Navaho-ish and nothing like the South American shamans. The scenery visualized usually looks North American also, but ancient. He almost never sees contemporary or futuristic things on mescaline.

SWIM tends to visualize South American shamans when he uses bufotenine or ayahuasca. The scenery tends to be jungle scenery. Another interesting note is that the shamans seen on ayahuasca are unique from those seen in bufotenine visions. The shamans seen on ayahuasca seem more relaxed, more like medicine men, and easier to communicate with. The shamans seen in bufotenine visions are more intense, more like warriors, and can be hard to communicate with. SWIM normally hears war type drums beating in the background on bufotenine, and often sees jaguars and other fierce wild animals. With ayahuasca, snakes are mostly seen.

I find it fascinating that these different hallucinogens generate different kinds of visions. The ayahuasca visions are the most relaxed, even when pure tetrahydroharmine and pure DMT is used. The visions have a very distinct look and feel to them.

When tetrahydroharmine is added to any of these, the visions become less chaotic, more refined, but the things seen in the visions are still pretty distinctive with bufotenine tending towards more violent energetic visions, and ayahuasca giving more relaxed peaceful visions, and mescaline being somewhere in the middle.
 
what dose of mescaline do SWIY need to get these visionary experiences?


and what is interesting is that the one time that SWIM smoked some of that reddish bufotenine stuff...his visuals were exactly as you described...violent energetic visions...and very very sharp
 
hmm yes I am also very interested in what dosages give the visionary experience. also if at that level it is better to be outside in nature or would indoors be ok? I know for instance with shrooms being indoors is ok but much prefer being outside. with ayahuasca however I have only ever done it at home in my flat, and it has been fine - once entering into visionary states my physical surroundings become less important.
(I started a thread more on this subject here: mescaline / cactus dosage - Generic - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus)
 
With high doses of mesc the only "nausea" I got was a type of sensory hallucination in the throat where it felt like I swallowed... another throat. Very strange. Also a slight acidic feeling at the back of the mouth.

I had a visionary experience at 350mg's. I see how Ron's comparison to ayahuasca's quite close. It was almost identical for me at points but without any trace of fear and everything was a bit more... orange in a pearly kind of way (CEV's).
 
I think this might be an interesting combination...but I definitely prefer mescaline to MDMA. I very rarely use MDMA, haven't for over a year, and following Iboga, I doubt I will ever use it again. Had my good times with it though.

What I think might be an interesting combo possibly is mescaline + 2CB (Shulginflippin'). Shulgin's experience with mescaline changed the course of his life and made him want to be a chemist that researched and developed new psychedelic compounds. Of all these he created, 2CB is one of his very favourites. Now I've not tried a full dose of 2CB, but I think it might mix very very nicely with a low dose of mescaline...might extend the short duration of the 2CB a bit as well. Will try it sometime and report back. 8)
 
Jorkest said:
what dose of mescaline do SWIY need to get these visionary experiences?

and what is interesting is that the one time that SWIM smoked some of that reddish bufotenine stuff...his visuals were exactly as you described...violent energetic visions...and very very sharp
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For SWIM a dose of about 150 mg or so is quite psychedelic, enough for quite strong visual effect (seeing walls flowing, seeing paintings come alive slightly, etc.)

For SWIM, around 300 mg of mescaline gives him true visions with the eyes close.

I think these doses vary a lot from person to person though.

It seems that most heavy MDMA users have suffered some sort of neurotransmitter brain damage and can’t get much effects at all even at 300 mg of mescaline. It’s kind of spooky to think that MDMA does that. It’s the only drug I know of that has long lasting effects like that.

I knew one guy who said he permanently suffered from optical distortions after abusing MDMA for many years. His ability to feel empathy was also diminished or so he said. That’s spooky. Of all the people I’ve known who’ve heavily abused drugs only methamphetamine users and MDMA users appear to have actual long lasting damage form drug use.

Of the people I’ve seen who’ve actually flipped out for a long time (weeks), the only drug they abused was methamphetamine. MDMA, methamphetamine, and mescaline are all in the same category of drugs. I really don’t like the fact that mescaline is related to MDMA and methamphetamine. Fortunately, there’s been no report of any long term damage caused by mescaline. The reports I’ve seen all show it causes no detectable long term effects.

I saw one study where they compared long term alcohol use to long term peyote use. The people who used peyote scored normal on their tests. The people who used alcohol scored lower than average on the tests. That indicates long term alcohol use is more problematic than long term peyote use.


I think mixing MDMA with mescaline is not a good idea. MDMA seems to cause permanent brain damage in excess. Whether or not its actually permanent, I’m not sure, but the people I’ve known who’ve abused MDMA for many years, all complain that mescaline no longer works well for them. That to me indicates neurotransmitter brain damage. Perhaps after 5-10 years of MDMA abstinence, the neurotransmitters will be repaired, but I haven’t heard of that happening. MDMA is very spooky stuff.
 
If you mix low (xtc-like) doses of cacti with cafeïn, it becomes more XTC-like.
I can understand where the idea to mix mescaline with MDMA comes from, but there are indeed string indications that MDMA is not too good for your health. Try the cafeïn combo...you'd like it.
 
Thanks for your replies so far.

Some of you really seem to think MDMA is a dangerous neurotoxin even at low doses .
SWIM thought if the Substances potentiated each other someone could achieve a MDMA like (even better) experience with half the dose of MDMA. I thought this might even decrease neurotoxicity compared with MDMA alone.

Balaganist , did you have a very harsh comedown when you tried this combination ? Did you get lots of unwanted side effects ?
 
Thats kinda scary... I mean, I do know that MDMA can be bad, I used to do it a lot, and in recent years have ended up partaking at parties and festivals, and it has mostly been good, as I take it very occasionally these days (2-3 times a year).
However I know I messed myself up as a teenager with that stuff, had some serious emotional breakdowns and deep depression in my late teens, which of course was also due to life stuff but I think MDMA did not help me deal with that stuff very well... in fact it is partly to blame for some of the situations I managed to get myself into.
 
A lot of long term frequent MDMA users that I know seem to be strangely aggressive at strange triggers. I know some people just use it as described on the metaphorical bottle for a empathy happy session, but those who use brain-crushing eye-rolling tooth-shattering doses definately seem to have odd changes in personality.

I stopped using MDMA after I realised it was causing me to have panic attacks 2 days after and also a couple of incidents of false love at first site.

But now that I use substances less frequently and with better intentions I think mescaline by itself can unlock not only the inner and an increased enjoyment of the external world and hold that state of mind much longer after the substances wears off way better than MDMA can.

My main criteria for using a mind-altering substance is being able to function within six hours after the experience. On mescaline I can function during and actually think it improves my ability to interact with other people in a much more level headed way, rather than MDMA's I like everyone so you must be good.
 
Swim's used a lot of MDMA in his life, and found it bought nothing but benefits, once the abuse-the-new-drug stage passed.

Swim is 38 and has 20 years of decreasingly frequent MDMA use behind him. He is self-aware enough to appraise the effects on his character - they have been overwhelmingly positive. It is a powerful molecule, subtly powerful, and is in SWIM's opinion the most serious drug a person can take. It is not a toy, and used properly can be wonderfully therapeutic. Even on a dancefloor. Shock, horror, the heresy of it. But psychedelics have always been part of communal experience, with music and ritual. This is the old Kesey v Leary position. I'm with Kesey every time. Fun is just as profound as religion etc.

And anyway, SWIM always knew he was having a good night when the buddha stage hit as the disco drums thrashed and the angels played the trumpets and the bassline rocked like God was playing. Heheh.

MDMA fits in with SWIM'as worldview, that fundamentally all people are good, motivated and improved by love, and act in an inhuman fashion when denied love.

Now, SWIM's had mescaline just once, and saw deep similarities with MDMA. However the euphoria was more powerful, more surging and head-based, more real.

Ultimately, though, SWIM thinks the two molecules are best left to communicate their magic solo. But not because of any psychedelic snobbery. It'd just be like playing two riffs at once.
 
Thanks for your reply isiton? , well put.

"Ultimately, though, SWIM thinks the two molecules are best left to communicate their magic solo. But not because of any psychedelic snobbery. It'd just be like playing two riffs at once."
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So you think there would be no worthwile synergy between the two low dose experiences (the dosage ranges from my OP) ??
What do you think of LSD+MDMA Mushrooms+MDMA ? Cannabis and MDMA ?

Do you think there could be a negative Synergy ?

Definitions from Wikipedia:
Synergy (from the Greek syn-ergos, συνεργός meaning working together) is the term used to describe a situation where different entities cooperate advantageously for a final outcome. Simply defined, it means that the whole is greater than the sum of the individual parts. Although the whole will be greater than each individual part, this is not the concept of synergy. If used in a business application it means that teamwork will produce an overall better result than if each person was working toward the same goal individually.

* A dynamic state in which combined action is favored over the sum of individual component actions.
* Behavior of whole systems unpredicted by the behavior of their parts taken separately. More accurately known as emergent behavior.
* The cooperative action of two or more stimuli or drugs.

Drug synergism occurs when drugs can interact in ways that enhance or magnify one or more effects, or side effects, of those drugs. This is sometimes exploited in combination preparations, such as codeine mixed with acetaminophen or ibuprofen to enhance the action of codeine as a pain reliever. This is often seen with recreational drugs, where 5-HTP, a serotonin precursor often used as an antidepressant, is often used prior to, during, and shortly after recreational use of MDMA as it allegedly increases the "high" and decreases the "comedown" stages of MDMA use (although most anecdotal evidence has pointed to 5-HTP moderately muting the effect of MDMA). Other examples include the use of cannabis with LSD, where the active chemicals in cannabis enhance the hallucinatory experience of LSD use.

Negative effects of synergy are a form of contraindication, which for instance can be if more than one depressant drug is used that affects the central nervous system (CNS), an example being alcohol and Valium. The combination can cause a greater reaction than simply the sum of the individual effects of each drug if they were used separately.
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Observant :)
 
hello, been away a while... well, SWIM isn't that precise about his hedonism. But he knows his limits, and never even mixes his drinks, never mind his chemicals. I think erowid and blulight have much more of this kind of information.

In short, I'm sorry I haven't a clue.

SWIM finds small doses of MDMA frustrating, and prefers the classic shulgin 125mg followed by 65mg booster at peak.

How any amount of it mixes with mescaline is one for younger men than SWIM.
 
Swim doesn't know what all the negativity is about. A recreational dose of mdma used infrequently throughout ones life is perfectly fine, and there is certainly no conclusive evidence of this sort of use causing permanent brain damage.

Swim imagines mesc and molly would be great together. mdma seems to shift psychedelics up a gear... At least thats SWIMS experience with flipping
 
I tried it at Ozora and it definetely goes well together.

Nothing negative noticed . I liked it :)
 
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