Moral or Immoral?

[DisEmboDied]

I am always faced with an extreme 'gut-wrenching' decision when it comes to allowing someone to try DMT for the first time. It always becomes an extreme moral decision for me, even though I am normally not that ‘moral’ of a person. I guess it is such a hard decision because I know that the experience just may be the most powerful experience of their life, and that that experience may just throw everything they thought they ever knew right into the trash. It may confuse them thoroughly, as it does me most of the time. I wonder myself if this path I have taken, being 70-something hyperspace journeys in, has been the best path to take or not…what am I now supposed to think about spirituality? I came from Christianity to atheism to agnosticism to DMT-ism. Should I try to follow these entities somehow? I cannot even prove the hyperspace/higher-dimensional realms to be actual, only possible. DMT has been the best thing that has ever happened to me (I think), but maybe it has also mislead me into a search into nowhere.

What do you think? Is exposing someone to DMT for the first time, especially without any prior psychedelic experience, a moral or immoral/right or wrong thing to do?

It seems to be good…

It’s like having the keys in your hand to another dimension, being able to lead others into these dimensions, but wondering if that is ultimately an Ok thing to do…

 

[Ether]

If they have the right intention and can understand the seriousness of these things then I would say yes. :d

 

[zedwings]

I think DMT is the best gift you could ever give someone, but you're right, they need to want to take it for themselves. Provide them with all the information about it. The Spirit Molecule DVD is a great starting point! Then, when they decide they must try it, then you're there to help.

 

[Guyomech]

They definitely need to know what they are potentially in for, and that it can potentially be paradigm-shattering. Ask them to read up here at the Nexus, look at some experience reports. If they're still interested, then there's nothing unethical about sharing tge spice.

I generally don't bring up the subject in day to day social interactions. But at least once a year someone will bring it up, and if I happen to have any spice in hand, I'll offer it.

 

[Eliyahu]

DisEmbodied wrote:

I wonder myself if this path I have taken, being 70-something hyperspace journeys in, has been the best path to take or not…what am I now supposed to think about spirituality? I came from Christianity to atheism to agnosticism to DMT-ism. Should I try to follow these entities somehow? I cannot even prove the hyperspace/higher-dimensional realms to be actual, only possible. DMT has been the best thing that has ever happened to me (I think), but maybe it has also mislead me into a search into nowhere.

As far as DMT and Christianity goes, I personally see a link there and I see this link because of my DMT experiences....

Personally I look at it like this....I feel like DMT has the potential to facilitate a genuine mystical experience. Now, there may not be adequate words to describe what a genuine mystical experience really is but there are always metaphors, parables, artwork and allegories. There are always ways to express the inexpressible..words are the least effective way to convey the meanings of hyperspace IMO

As far as introducing others go I usually try to follow the "omens" the indications from the universe that clearly point out a person who is "correct" for this type of thing...

If you pay close attention all of the signs will fall into place nicely letting you know whether or not a person is "right for it". And then if someone is "right" then just tell them what you told us....your not sure what it is but it IS something..and they can decide for themselves...

So that's my shillings worth

 

[bradlacky]

i think the wonderful thing about dmt is that its completly controlable, you can start out with small hits and ease your way in,and it dosnt last long .its like the perfect rug

 

[Michal_R]

...i think the wonderful thing about dmt is that its completly controlable...

Wow

For me the DMT, if taken a large enough dose (and/or inhaled efficiently), is anything but "completly controlable"...

In fact, the opposite very often happens to me under honest doses of psychedelics. A feeling that it is "not controlable". Then this "existential fear", about which McKenna and others talk, sometimes comes. This kind of fear that things are going completely out of control, that this is for real - or - that this is actually more than real...

 

[ken5ie]

Hi guys

I agree with Michal_R

I don't feel that I am in control when using Deems or any other psychedelic for that matter, and I also feel that trying to can often be a mistake and may lead to bad experiences.

I like to let them show whatever they will and learn what I can from this rather than try to manipulate the experience by trying to control it.

As for the Op's question I think that as long as the person has a good idea of what they are in for and wants the experience for the right reasons, get them to do some research on here and talk with them about it and start them on a low dose and let them work up from that.

Peace and love
ken5ie

 

[olympus mon]

i think the wonderful thing about dmt is that its completly controlable, you can start out with small hits and ease your way in,and it dosnt last long .its like the perfect rug

I kind of get what your saying to a point but I almost spit my coffee out reading the words "what in love about dmt is its so controllable" :lol: !

Then reading the rest of the sentence I understood what you meant. That you can vape either small mg's or take 1 hit at a time. You wont breakthrough that way but not everyone is looking for that god knows why.


To the OP, its so subjective and dependant on the person your thinking about. I know people I wouldnt hesitate to help launch but others that pleade with me to try dmt and I will not. You just have to use your good sense and judgement.

I def do not think its immoral. unless your pressing dmt on someone then It could be immoral. I have turned some friends on that I KNEW they were right for dmt and would love it but needed a little encouragement. Both thanked me profusely later. You may think that that is wrong to do but I knew these people so well and also knew what they were made of. Ive seen them Under fire and they are as solid as they come.

On the other hand my Ex girlfreind was almost obbsessed with dmt even before she finaly convinced me to let her try some with me. I knew she wasnt the right mind set. She kind of want to be a psychonaught more than she wanted to use psychedelics if that makes sense. Dmt is too much for half measures. I loaded her 15 mg and watched her pretty much waste it all being so hesitant and meek on the gvg. If I thought she was going to hit the pipe confidently I probably would have loaded her 10mg. Any time she took a proper dose of mushrooms or Lsd she pretty much freaked out. Not the right person for dmt at that time in her life.

Every case is different is the short version of my bored late night ranting. Use your judgement.

 

[AlbertKLloyd]

If sharing is immoral then I am an immoral person
I have introduced perhaps a dozen people to DMT, there was never a problem
Not one of them had a life changing or view changing experience, but nearly all enjoyed it very much
It wasn't a big deal

 

[SnozzleBerry]

Deus mortuus est!

Morality is a construct of your mind...there is no objective right or wrong.

I've dosed people who had never tried anything harder than alcohol, coffee, or cannabis and always aimed for breakthrough. My understanding is that they all had amazing experiences with no difficulties.

Do what you feel comfortable with...only you can come to a conclusion that works for you and fits your life.

 

[Pup Tentacle]

...only you can come to a conclusion that works for you and fits your life.

I would like to nominate this for the Nexus motto

 

[○]

What do you think? Is exposing someone to DMT for the first time, especially without any prior psychedelic experience, a moral or immoral/right or wrong thing to do?

I don't think so ,as long as the person/s are properly informed of what it is they're taking and what could potentially happen to them if they decide to cross that line.

If both of the above are met, I see no issues then. Afterall, the dance we're doing with this molecule and the experience/s that are facilitated are a total roll of the dice. Where we'll land each time...who knows? :twisted:

And honestly, you could prepare as much as humanly possible....it's still a roll of the dice..sotospeak. Soo immoral?....moral??............nahhhhhhh.

 

[Bill Cipher]

I don't think this experience lends itself to moral absolutes. It is, however, an enormous responsibility to introduce others to it. I think great care should always be taken. It is, as you say, quite life changing.

As I see it, you are responsible for every brain you turn on and every crumb you extract. Encourage independent research and don't throw people into the deep end, and I think it can be a wonderful gift. But know it can come with a price.

 

[RaszmWaffles]

I personally feel there should be a couple things to look at when evaluation a person and seeing if they should be allowed DMT:
-Are they responsible?
-Whats the reason for trying?
-Do they actually understand and know what they are attempting?
-Personal drug history?

If the person is just wanting to try it becuase they'd like to add it to the list of substances they've tried, then NO!

If the person isn't responsible and you feel they could cause harm to themselves or influence others in a negative manner, then NO!

If they dont understand what DMT truely is, then NO!

I think personal drug history tells alot about a person. Its almost acts as a moral compass. If the person has had a BIG drug problem, then NO!

Just my personal opinion.

 

[Leon Trout]

If the person is just wanting to try it becuase they'd like to add it to the list of substances they've tried, then NO!

If the person isn't responsible and you feel they could cause harm to themselves or influence others in a negative manner, then NO!

If they dont understand what DMT truely is, then NO!

I think personal drug history tells alot about a person. Its almost acts as a moral compass. If the person has had a BIG drug problem, then NO!

while i agree with damn near each & every thing you say here, if my buddy Chop had applied this set of criteria to me, i would have failed the test... on each and every count... but he didn't, and as a direct result i have made positive changes that eliminated the first 3 concerns... as for the 4th, well, you can't erase history, only learn from it...

morality, as i choose to interpret it, consists of one simple rule: in all things i will do my very damndest to do no harm... period... so, with that in mind, i've turned on quite a few close friends... most have had profound, beautiful experiences... a couple didn't quite get it... & one of them had the negative effect of not liking it, so she doesn't partake anymore... i've turned a few away for drunkenness, or a head-full of xanax or whatnot... & i don't let it leave my presence... by those loose, self-imposed guidelines, i feel it's completely harmless, thus quite moral, to share with a friend... i'll offer once, and once only... i will not convince, or twist arms... only open a door & answer any questions on the way... i love my people, and they deserve no less...

 

[SnozzleBerry]

...If they dont understand what DMT truely is, then NO!...

I think this disqualifies everyone

 

[arcanum]

I don't think it's such a big deal when it's administered via vaporising, ie. 3-6 mins of intense experience followed by the usual half to one hour of pleasant euphoria. I did this last week with a woman who never tried any pyschedelic whatsovever in her entire 31 years. It went smooth.

I would say administering a first timer Oral dmt as Ayha. or pharma waska would border on the wreckless, and yes even immoral should that person be inexperienced or have no real knowledge of what to expect and could land you in trouble if there was a major freak out. So I guess the moral equation does come into to it relative to the way it's administered.

 

[VibeCatalyst]

Giving spice to someone you know, love, trust with the right mind set, and can fully Handel and cherish the experience - MORAL

Giving spice to a random person or friend that just want to "get high" or may not have the mentally for psychedelics or the respect for the molecule - IMMORAL

It's is one of the best gifts/experiences u can give someone if they are ready and open to it, but can also be an extremely intense and scary experience if not taken with the right approach with the untrained or ignorant mind....

 

[AlbertKLloyd]

I have known of lots of people trying DMT via friends and friends of friends (literally) as well as via myself. Not one of them ever had a bad reaction or was scared and a lot of them count as people who don't have mental discipline and some of them are the types of people who "get fucked up" but they all had good experiences in general though a a small number of them had therapeutic experiences that resolved some past trauma, I would not expect that in general however.


I did have a friend who reacted badly, he was a a party and a person told him to take a big rip from a pipe, but didn't tell him what it was, he did freak out and was terrified. I feel that this type of introduction is irresponsible and even immoral.

Several friends were afraid to try it because of rumors it is so intense or terrifying, and yet upon trying it they laughed at the idea that they should have been afraid of it, they found that it was nothing like the literature they had read reported. I think that telling people it is likely to scare them or that if they are not qualified then they will have a bad time is the wrong way to approach it, I find that is something I have to educate people against. Expectation has a lot to do with what you get out of it.

I am not sure what qualifies as an ignorant mind, but I like to think it is the opposite of an open mind, an open mind should not be filled with expectations and fear in my opinion. I think some allegedly ignorant people can and do benefit from DMT. I have also seen people do it to try it and have it change their lives in a good way where it helped them resolve substance abuse issues of various types.

I think the worst thing one can do it give it to someone without discussing it and without them volunteering to do it. I don't like the idea of forcing it onto people or giving it to the unsuspecting. However the person who introduces it does potentially have some responsibility to guide the noob, so to speak, and to not fill their heads with expectations.