My chali brew has turned brain-zapping

[Jagube]

I mean that electric brain zap / jolt sensation. I associate this with MHRB and had never experienced it on chali or chacruna before.

I made a chali brew some months ago and it was good, i.e. jolt-free. After a ~2 month break, I drank it twice and both times it gave me MHRB-style brain zaps.

Any idea what's going on here? Some decomposition product? I've stored chali brews for months in the past and had never seen anything like it until this batch.

 

[dragonrider]

Brain zapps are associated with a shortage of serotonin. They normally occur as withdrawall symptoms of SSRI's and some other antidepressants, or after a few days of heavy use of MDMA with a lot of "refuelling" of this serotonin guzzling euphoriant.

Classic hallucinogens can exacerbate these effects. I suppose they could cause brain zapps as well, because they diminish serotonergic activity. But i think they would probably not cause these effects if your serotonin levels wheren't already low to begin with.

So the most plausible explanation is that something is causing your levels of it to be lower than usual. Not extremely low, otherwise you would experience these zapps all the time, but just low enough for them to occur on psychedelics.

 

[Sabnock1990]

I've experienced this on Mimosa as well, as far as i can remember never experienced this on Acacia, haven't tried Chali or Chacruna yet though. But i for one actually quite liked the Mimosa brain zaps, it felt good kinda, almost like it was resetting some of my neurochemistry or something, didn't happen all the time, just a few times, one night i was sitting outside and it was nice and cool, had a bottle of water sitting on the cool ground, went to take a sip, and when the water entered my mouth not only could i taste it/the minerals in it but i got some nice zaps at that moment. I used to be on anti-depressants, anti-psychotics, stimulants, mood stabilizers, the works, cut all that out in 2010 when i started smoking Cannabis regularly, and in 2012 i found Rue and Mimosa, took that for a good while and only encountered the zaps a few times, but it did feel like it was resetting some of my neurochemistry. Idk about being short on Serotonin, but i've felt since Aya that i'm good in Serotonin, in fact i may naturally have a bit too much Serotonin, but seem to be lacking a bit in Dopamine/Noradrenaline and started dosing Mucuna daily in 2017 for 3 years until this year i stopped taking it and ever since i feel i've stored up/replenished my body with Dopamine/Noradrenaline. But yeah haven't experimented with Aya since 2015, have had a few other Psychedelics since, but i've been on a break these last few years.

One kind of brain zap in particular though i've encountered on Aya was from Zinc Gluconate, it was very jarring, didn't feel good at all, unlike the Mimosa zaps.

 

[VibeSurfer]

I once experienced jolts, zaps, and a quick feeling of electrocution after consuming a combo of pharma/acacia. It was weird. It began with black splotches appearing all over my walls, ceiling, and floors, and then some kind of black splotch monster formed and I was jolted. The whole thing lasted maybe half a second and then it all disappeared.

I think psychedelics can exacerbate any unpleasant stimuli, whether it be mental or physical. I would imagine MHRB might be tough on the stomach, so that might have something to do with it.

Who knows.

 

[endlessness]

high doses of pure dmt can also in some circumstances give brain zaps, both smoked and pharma. ive also had it with mhrb and concentrated chacruna based aya. I have not identified why sometimes it happens and sometimes not except its usually in higher doses

 

[Jagube]

Thanks for the replies.

The two chali doses I've had recently gave me otherwise rather mild DMT effects, I was gauging the potency of a batch of vine brew and must not have taken enough for full MAOI, so I can't say this experience consistent with endlessness' point the zaps go hand in hand with large DMT doses.

It could be a temporary state of brain chemistry, due to diet or other factors. I'll try chacruna and compare.

 

[dragonrider]

I've also had them with a large dose of mushrooms once. I think every hallucinogen that temporarily shuts down the serotonergic system could trigger them.

Serotonin is a neurotransmitter that regulates a lot of activity from other systems, so it could be that the zaps are the result of a surplus of activity of some subsystem within the CNS that would normally be dimmed.

I wonder if these zaps are somehow related to epileptic seizures.

 

[endlessness]

I think it's rather the Mothership scanning us in 11 dimensions to find energetic flaws. Hyperspacial magnetic ressonance.

:d

 

[dragonrider]

I think it's rather the Mothership scanning us in 11 dimensions to find energetic flaws. Hyperspacial magnetic ressonance.

:d

That could also be the case.

But what do you think would happen if you would accidentally swallow the mothership then?

 

[Jagube]

I think it's rather the Mothership scanning us in 11 dimensions to find energetic flaws. Hyperspacial magnetic ressonance.

Maybe. But then, another data point: I drank chacruna, it was strong, but no zaps. So it may be something about that batch of chali.
In my early days, I would drink MHRB and wonder why I got those zaps with my brews when the traditional medicine I was served in ceremonies didn't have that effect.

To bring more precision, there are jolts and zaps.

Jolts are like electric shocks and they're definitely unpleasant. They knock me out of my comfort, they shake me and it takes me time to come back to myself.

Zaps are not as unpleasant and I can see how one would welcome them. They feel like a laser beam or something going through the frontal part of my brain, from left to right or the other way. I think the most unpleasant thing about them for me is that they're unexpected, they come without a warning, and they kind of put my mind's action on hold. They do knock me out too, but only a little bit.

I wonder if these zaps are somehow related to epileptic seizures.

This was hinted at by someone in another thread.

 

[OneIsEros]

Brain zaps are a sign a seizure might be coming. Seizures can cause brain damage or even death in some cases. Brain zaps are also more likely to happen on psychedelics when you are dehydrated or overheated. I recommend laying off the brew for a little bit.

 

[endlessness]

Brain zaps are a sign a seizure might be coming. Seizures can cause brain damage or even death in some cases. Brain zaps are also more likely to happen on psychedelics when you are dehydrated or overheated. I recommend laying off the brew for a little bit.

Got any source for those statements?

Epilepsy in healthy individuals with no pre-existing conditions? I doubt it..

 

[OneIsEros]

Brain zaps are a sign a seizure might be coming. Seizures can cause brain damage or even death in some cases. Brain zaps are also more likely to happen on psychedelics when you are dehydrated or overheated. I recommend laying off the brew for a little bit.

Got any source for those statements?

Epilepsy in healthy individuals with no pre-existing conditions? I doubt it..

Actually, not only is it possible they may cause seizures - it’s actually possible they ARE seizures. A seizure, technically, can just be the weird feeling that a person has when they are possibly about to have a grand mal seizure.

Chill. It doesn’t mean they have epilepsy. Lots of drugs can cause seizures in people without epilepsy. Psychedelics cause brain zaps, and many of the drugs that cause full blown seizures in otherwise healthy individuals, also cause brain zaps. In people with epilepsy, psychedelics are known to cause seizures. If you’re experiencing brain zaps, you may be on your way to having a grand mal.

Citation? Please dude. You know as well as I do that psychedelic science is repressed.

Here’s an article on the phenomenon as it appears in non-psychedelic drugs which also cause brain zaps and seizures.

Log in | Psychology Today

www.google.com

 

[Jagube]

Update:

I drank the from the same chali batch and experienced no more brain zaps or jolts. So the two times I did experience them must have been a fluke, maybe a temporary state of my brain chemistry during that period.

 

[endlessness]

Actually, not only is it possible they may cause seizures - it’s actually possible they ARE seizures. A seizure, technically, can just be the weird feeling that a person has when they are possibly about to have a grand mal seizure.

You are making controversial claims regarding the safety of psychedelics without posting any source nor good reasoning why it would be so. Might I remind you that it is a requirement for people in this forum.

Chill.

I am chilled, I'm just trying to maintain the quality of information in this forum and avoid fear mongering or unbacked claims passed off as absolute truth

Psychedelics cause brain zaps, and many of the drugs that cause full blown seizures in otherwise healthy individuals, also cause brain zaps

That is bad logic. Just because a symptom resembles another doesn't have to mean the two conditions are even remotely similar.

Citation? Please dude. You know as well as I do that psychedelic science is repressed.

There are thousands of peer reviewed studies on psychedelics out there, many which look into the safety of psychedelics. If what you say was true, don't you think there'd be something out there about it?

Here’s an article on the phenomenon as it appears in non-psychedelic drugs which also cause brain zaps and seizures.


Log in | Psychology Today

Completely different pharmacology on those drugs. False equivalency.

 

[King Tryptamine]

I've also experienced this brain zap / electric shock like sensation due a number of serotonergic agents and some non including: tramadol, coca leaf, syrian rue and ayahuasca. I'm still not too sure about what's going on here but I've always associated it to having partial seizures from too much activity-stimulation within the brain.

In the case with tramadol I experienced the EXACT same electric zap as I did on ayahuasca (note: combined with coca leaf) and the others listed but this zap began to increase in frequency to such an extent that I eventually lost consciousness and began experiencing convulsions like the same type you'd expect during a grand mal seizure eventually waking up in an ambulance having a full blown panic attack.

Just my assumption by the way as there's no way of me confirming whether or not these are partial seizures but all i'm going to say is that the EXACT SAME sensation was present before having an actual full blown seizure during my tramadol overdose.

 

[OneIsEros]

I've also experienced this brain zap / electric shock like sensation due a number of serotonergic agents and some non including: tramadol, coca leaf, syrian rue and ayahuasca. I'm still not too sure about what's going on here but I've always associated it to having partial seizures from too much activity-stimulation within the brain.

In the case with tramadol I experienced the EXACT same electric zap as I did on ayahuasca (note: combined with coca leaf) and the others listed but this zap began to increase in frequency to such an extent that I eventually lost consciousness and began experience convulsions like the same type you'd expect during a grand mal seizure eventually waking up in an ambulance having a full blown panic attack.

Just my assumption by the way as there's no way of me confirming whether or not these are partial seizures but all i'm going to say is that the EXACT SAME sensation was present before having an actual full blown seizure during my tramadol overdose.

Precisely. This phenomenon is not well understood even among drugs that are well studied. If you’re experiencing brain zaps, be cautious. Period.

 

[dragonrider]

Could it be that serotonin has a dampening effect on dopamine and noradrenaline, and that when this dampening effect is absent, or when there is too much stimulation of the latter two systems, you get these phenomena?

 

[King Tryptamine]

Could it be that serotonin has a dampening effect on dopamine and noradrenaline, and that when this dampening effect is absent, or when there is too much stimulation of the latter two systems, you get these phenomena?

It's a tough question to answer for me personally because like I mentioned earlier this same sensation was present on a number of different substances all with different pharmacodynamics and even some such as alprazolam and ethanol (withdrawal stage) in which alteration of DA,NE and 5-HT via these compounds are not responsible for their primary effects even though there are effected to certain extent since neurotransmitter systems are interconnected the best answer I can produce right now is there could be an endless variety of possible causes not limited to brain chemistry, substance and substance combinations, time and age of consumption, etc...

I'm sorry I couldn't be much of help but I myself am still trying to figure out the various possible mechanisms that lead to this phenomenon which IMO are partial seizures due to the reasons listed in my previous post as well as ways in which they can be prevented.

 

[endlessness]

I've also experienced this brain zap / electric shock like sensation due a number of serotonergic agents and some non including: tramadol, coca leaf, syrian rue and ayahuasca. I'm still not too sure about what's going on here but I've always associated it to having partial seizures from too much activity-stimulation within the brain.

In the case with tramadol I experienced the EXACT same electric zap as I did on ayahuasca (note: combined with coca leaf) and the others listed but this zap began to increase in frequency to such an extent that I eventually lost consciousness and began experiencing convulsions like the same type you'd expect during a grand mal seizure eventually waking up in an ambulance having a full blown panic attack.

Just my assumption by the way as there's no way of me confirming whether or not these are partial seizures but all i'm going to say is that the EXACT SAME sensation was present before having an actual full blown seizure during my tramadol overdose.

So you had the zaps with ayahuasca combined with coca leaf? Did you also have convulsions with it? What about with syrian rue?

Did you ever visit a neurologist?