My Greetings & Request For Some Advice.

[COSMIC_SWIMMER]

Hello to all you beautiful people. I'm a new member but a long-time visitor.
I am here to extend my greetings and to ask for some advice.
I'll give a brief background on my DMT experience first and in no particular order.
I first met the spirit molecule about 18 years ago. I've only done it a few times due to it being such a profound experience.
My interpretation of the experiences was humbling to say the least. The first experience was the strongest, and any experience after that has been lighter, due to my feeling of unreadiness and me still learning about myself.
I remember once in my vision, about so long ago, I met a woman that resembled something of an ancient Mayan woman who told me that this was not the right time.
Since then I took a hiatus from the molecule even though the molecule stood ready close by for when I was ready.
I did try to have the experience but always hesitated for the full journey.
One more thing I do want to mention is that for the most part, most of my experiences involved smoking the molecule.
I no longer smoke and do not want to use this method, as coughing while the come-on feels like it can take away or alter the experience.
So I've had some MAOI available to me, but each time I've tried to partake in pharmahuasca, my dosage has never been ideal.
There were about 3 times I tried, with 2 not having any experience and 1 having some closed-eye visuals that lasted about 5 minutes.
I don't recall the dosages I took and have not kept a journal until yesterday when I tried one more time.
Unfortunately, I did not have any experience.
From reading the forum, I have noticed there being a wide range of dosages.
Last night at about 22:00, 200 mg of THH was taken in a shot glass with some lime juice.
A shower was taken, and at 22:30, 100 mg of DMT freebase was taken in a shot of lime juice.
The THH did not dissolve very well in the lime juice, but the DMT freebase did. Either way, both shots were rinsed and washed down with a bit of water.
I put myself in a good head space, set the lights, diffused some eucalyptus oil, and put on some music.
At about 23:00 I still did not feel anything and decided to lay down and prepare for sleep. I figured if it comes on, I will notice either in my dreams or in the short while before I actually fall asleep.
I did not fully fall asleep till about 00:30. Maybe the THH kept me awake a bit longer than normal or maybe it was some slight anxiety. My mind and heart rate were pretty calm, though.
One thing I notice is some people who report their experience don't always mention the timing between their MAOI and the DMT, and also the form of the salts they're taking.
I feel like these are important factors. But anyway, I do want to mention in order to try and get some good advice what is available to me. In terms of MAOIs, harmine/harmaline HCl, THH, and 96% full-spectrum Peganum harmala extract. And I think I still have some I made. All being a few years old but kept in a cool, dark, dry place. Not sure about the stability, but I wouldn't doubt their potency.
As far as the DMT goes, there's DMT freebase & DMT fumarate. I will say I cannot verify the fumerate, as I've not had it work in pharmahuasca, but it was made using the same freebase.
I feel like there may be a few more things I forgot to mention, but I hope this is a good starting point for others to feel how wet my feet are and my desire to journey to the space beyond the veil.
Any thoughts, advice, or questions are welcome, and I look forward to hearing them all.

 

[blig-blug]

Hi @COSMIC_SWIMMER , welcome to the Nexus!

If I'm not mistaken, THH by itself doesn't have a MAOI effect that's strong enough for DMT to be active orally. I haven't tried THH by itself, but I think you need harmine and/or harmaline (or another effective MAOI) as well.

If you still have some alkaloids extracted from Peganum harmala, I'd recommend 200mg of that and 30-50mg DMT about half an hour later. Do not take a larger DMT dose before you have tried it with that dose of harmalas (or equivalent)! For most people, 100mg DMT when fully MAI inhibited will be way too much. Try to get success at a lower DMT dose and then experiment with higher doses if you want to. With enough harmalas you should have a very clear effect even without adding any DMT, and even a low dose of DMT will have an effect.

You could also have 100mg harmine + 100mg harmaline instead of the alkaloids extracted from Peganum harmala, it should be more or less of similar potency.

 

[COSMIC_SWIMMER]

Hello @blig-blug , and thanks for the reply.

You may be right; that is what I've read as well, but I've come across some reports of people who have had positive pharmahuasca experiences using thh+dmt. Though some of the reports I read are quite old and may not be relevant today due to known/unknown factors.

I think since I took 200 mg THH + 100 mg DMT freebase and had no noticeable effects, I will experiment with some of the other harmalas.

Maybe trying some of the stronger MAOIs will at the very least produce some effect.

I am curious; how would you describe the effect of "way too much"? I feel as if I'm going to take the plunge; I should do it in deeper water. And from past pharmahuasca experiences, even though I can't recall the dosages, I feel I've taken 100 mg dmt before. But I can't be certain or remember the combination or dosage of harmala I took.

I plan on trying some pharmahuasca again tomorrow; if the weather is nice, I can go for a swim and soak up a bit of sun and reconnect with nature. That should help relax me for the journey. I could try some harmalas just to experiment and assess a comfortable dosage. Should I concern myself with building a tolerance to the harmalas? It's only been 1 day and possibly 2 if counting today, and then possibly 3 if we throw in tomorrow in the mix.

 

[COSMIC_SWIMMER]

I did a little experimentation today.
17:30 - 200mg harmala/harmaline hcl in a shot of lime juice.
18:30 - Slight body high, nothing intense. Ate 3 handfulls of almonds
19:00 - Feel a bit drowsy and relaxed, nothing too intense.

Anyone have any thoughts?
If one wanted to get a full experience with just harmalas, what is the most one has taken while being on the safe side ?

 

[blig-blug]

I am curious; how would you describe the effect of "way too much"?

I have been careful enough to never get there with pharmahuasca Look up experiences of people that redosed before their first dose had taken an effect and you can get an idea.

I feel I've taken 100 mg dmt before

Yes, but were you fully MAOI inhibited? Most (if not all) reports that mention such amounts of DMT either omit the dose of harmalas, or have doses of harmalas on the lower side. Some people do get fully inhibited at e.g. less than 150mg (rue) harmalas, but usually more is needed.

As a rule of thumb, I'd say if you are not feeling strong effects from the harmalas themselves, you're likely not fully inhibited.

Anyone have any thoughts?

If you only got low effects from 200mg harmine/harmaline, it may be that you are not very sensitive to harmalas and need more. The amount of MAO in our bodies varies a lot from one person to the other.

I'd try 250mg the next time, and keep going up by 50mg increments until you find a level that works for you.

If one wanted to get a full experience with just harmalas, what is the most one has taken while being on the safe side ?

I don't know about other people, as it varies a lot. In my case, the highest I've gone is 300mg. But I can't even walk or see well from all the tracers at 230mg. That's why I think you may be less sensitive and your ceiling may be higher. So you could probably jump to 300mg directly, although I think it's better generally to be cautious. Once you reach full inhibition, the dose-response curve gets much steeper.

 

[COSMIC_SWIMMER]

So yesterday evening i experimented to see what works for me.
This time i did have a experience but not what i expected.
I was satisfied and found it a very desirable experience.
I will like to further experiment to see the different stages and experiences i can acquire from this medicine.

@ 19:00 - 222mg harmala/harmaline hcl was consumed with in a shot of lime juice.
19:30 - 66mg dmt freebase was consumed in a shot of lime juice.
19:50 - Stomach feels a bit heavy, have slight feeling of something but nothing too noticeable. Decided to eat a couple of cherries.
20:00 - Feeling some distortions similar to being drunk, visual sight slightly a bit wavy like mushroom, my attention and interest shifted from reading to just being.
20:30 - Effects feel as if they are at there peek. Verry enjoyable. No open eye visuals. Closed eye visuals are present but feel controllable, guidable. sitting on recliner with legs crossed just loving the music and being in my head.
20:45 - Remembered i had a recliner and recline the chair back.
21:00 - Leaning head back and staring at the ceiling, am able to get nice visual distortions no color just wavy patterns.
22:30 - Feel as if the peek is about over, but still high. The music and mental space is very pleasing. Very meditative.
23:30 - About at the end. Hard to say where the end really was, Last hour or so has been very meditative.

So im trying to document my experience. Ive kept a journal near by but have not written a lot as i was enjoying the experience to much to be distracted.
I did find this experience very interesting as it was not reminiscent of a dmt trip, at least none that ive ever had. But did have psychedelic quality's.
I felt very in control the whole experience. It was very enjoyable. I was able to guide my thoughts. I was able to meditate. the whole experience i was just enjoying the music and had my eyes closed and just really loved the presence of being.
I did burn some incense and did some prayers and asked for the teacher to take it easy on me. I wonder if there was anything to this. Either way cleansing myself in the shower and cleansing the space before the journey feels good practice to align my set and setting.
From my last 2 experiments this one has the best effects. Not sure what to credit it to. I would love to hear some feedback.
Odd to imagine my experience was not overwhelming. Either 22 extra mg of hcl gave me a harmala/harmaline experience or was a moderate dose to inhibit some maoi?
Or i was fully inhibited but 66mg dmt was a very low dose for me. One other thought is taking dmt 30 minutes after harmalas was either too early or too late?
My stomach and chest felt more heavy which makes me think i might not need more harmalas, I do wonder how much i can handle. I wonder because 200mg hcl did not produce any desirable effects on there own.
When i was eating my cherries i was measuring out 100mg of hcl and 25mg dmt fumarate. I accidently put the fumarate instead of the freebase but at the end did not take it as the effects were starting to come on. I think the cherries helped.
Im going take what i measured out and up it to 222mg hcl + 66mg fumarate and try consuming it all at once and see what effects come from that.
This wont be a direct comparison to the the experience i just had as im using a different salt and the timing is different. But it will provide me with some good information.

Please feel free to comment, let me know what your thoughts are. Any advice or suggestions are welcome i look forward to hearing them.

 

[blig-blug]

I think it's more likely that you need some extra harmalas than higher dose of DMT, but the only way to really find out is to experiment.

Also, remember that you can redose DMT once your first dose starts coming down. That second dose will be stronger and qualitatively different so you may want to take less.

 

[COSMIC_SWIMMER]

@blig-blug Based on your knowledge and understanding, does my experience sound like some of the dmt if not all was inhibited, or is it more reminiscent or harmala's?
I ask because its hard to believe 22mg more of hcl would make that big a difference. It feels more like there was some inhibition.
The question then becomes if my timing was off, or dosage.
Id like to play around with both but would prefer to start with timing as the heavy stomach and chest is not something i would like to make feel stronger if i have to take more maoi. What are your thoughts?
From what i read and my current understanding is that harmala's have a short window when you can take the dmt. Maybe this depends on the form the harmala's are taken, rue tea, or extract?
What is the maximum length of time one can take dmt before inhibition stops. What are some timing protocols you would experiment with?

 

[northape]

Maybe go with 250mg and see how it works for you. You can always just eat the seeds or cook a tea from them, too.
Sometimes a full-fledged tea works better for people. 250mg would be close to 5g of seeds, and it is a solid, almost heavy dose for most.
I'd suggest working with just harmalas until you find your sweet spot and get accustomed to the state.

I tend to drink my DMT plants 30min after harmalas. You can still redose 2 hours later, but the effect would depend on your initial dose of harmalas.
They cook both plants in traditional ayahuasca brew, so redosing implies harmalas too. Redosing is sketchy with rue and pharma. I'd stick to one dose for now.

 

[blig-blug]

I think it's worth trying more harmalas first. In my case, I usually take 230mg. Once I had 200mg by accident, and the experience was much weaker. I think when one approaches the full inhibition dose, small increments in dose can make a big difference.

 

[TheGreenPhantom]

Great trip report! It was both enjoyable and informative.

In my limited experience, I found 154mg of mixed harmalas (HCl) to be very workable; when I upped the dose to 174mg, I found the bodyload to be quite formidable: ataxia with positional vertigo, similar to seasickness, that triggered wretching my guts up while on all fours on the floor. (Luckily I had fasted 8 hours, so there was nothing to it.) At this dose, I experienced ghostly white tracers around my hands, as well as doorframes – which was cool, but the physical discomfort got in the way of it being cool and interesting. These effects started after the 60-minute long peak (I took ~70mg of our beloved molecule), and lasted 60–90 minutes, after which I was very wired up and could not sleep....

So yeah – I'm definitely a lightweight with harmalas, and if I took 200+mg, I'd be FUBAR!

In terms of spacing things out, I feel the harmalas kick in reliably at the 50 minute mark...

 

[blig-blug]

In my limited experience, I found 154mg of mixed harmalas (HCl) to be very workable; when I upped the dose to 174mg, I found the bodyload to be quite formidable: ataxia with positional vertigo, similar to seasickness, that triggered wretching my guts up while on all fours on the floor. (Luckily I had fasted 8 hours, so there was nothing to it.)

I don't think you're particularly a lightweight, those are normal effects for a full dose of harmalas. 174mg is not too far from 200mg. Vertigo, dizziness, ataxia, tracers, etc. is all expected when taking pharma if you move. It improves somewhat once you learn to handle it, but I don't think it goes away (except if you take harmalas very often). It shouldn't be a problem, just one shouldn't plan on being moving around as one could do with other psychedelics. IME this feature of *huasca of forcing you to be still helps deepen the experience.

 

[TheGreenPhantom]

Yeah – I just wasn't expecting such a big difference in upping the dose a mere 20mg – from feeling practically nothing to ghost vision with vertigo.

 

[northape]

Yeah – I just wasn't expecting such a big difference in upping the dose a mere 20mg – from feeling practically nothing to ghost vision with vertigo.

Your body is not a constant, as people like to believe, but a complex system in motion. Yes, it does try to maintain homeostasis, but there is a margin there, too.
So it's not actually surprising that even the same dose of harmalas could produce a different effect. That's why it's always best to work with one substance for a while and see the full gamut of reactions you'd get.