My Reflections on Plain Leaf Salvia

[PowerfulMedicine]

I wouldn't consider myself very experienced with salvia. I have never broke through or even had any major visual effects, but I have never had any trouble achieving affects from plain leaf. I have probably smoked it about 20 times or so, and I feel like I have a bit of experience with this low tier of salvia. From my experience it is very enjoyable. I sit in a dark or dimly lit room, fill a bowl with half a gram of plain leaf, and take a big hit – as big of a hit as I can take. I hold the hit for 30 seconds.

I use a normal pipe to smoke it and I can usually smoke the full half gram in three hits. The thing is that after 15 or 20 seconds of holding the first hit I start to feel the effects and have a hard time holding my breath. After the 30 seconds I am hardly able to take a second hit in quick succession and really have to concentrate in order to do it.

Even when I have concentrated hard enough to take the second and third hit, it doesn't really propel me any further than the first hit alone. It just prolongs it very slightly. I have to try to my hardest to ignore the effects and feelings from the first hit. That just detracts from the experience, so I stopped trying to take the second hit. I just lay down and wait for the effects to subside enough for me to take the second hit (usually 2-7 minutes). I have found that the second hit is always much less powerful than the first and only brings me back to the same level as the first hit without increasing the effects. The third hit is even weaker and only prolongs the comedown.

When I first feel the effects hit me, they hit very fast with little to no comeup. My body feels like something is trying to pull it into another dimension but doesn't have the strength to get me through. Its like I'm too big for the rabbit hole and only part of my body is in the hole. Basically its like I just stay on the border of two dimensions while the salvia tries to contort my existence enough for me to cross. I can actually feel where my body has crossed the border and where it hasn't. The border line creates a distinct line of buzzing electric feelings on my skin. This feeling sometimes makes me laugh maniacally and sometimes I get this feeling that I am laughing at myself for not being able to get through the veil.

During the trip I don't get any visuals, but when I close my eyes I can see things in my mind's eye that are clearly being caused by the salvia. It's like my brain is trying to create visual scenes using feelings. They are extremely vague scenes that never fully materialize. I can see them, but I can see through them.

I often “see” what I think is the salvia entity. When I see/feel this entity, it is always female and gives off the aura of a teacher and a guide. I actually once “saw” her as the teacher from the Magic School Bus. My body had partly passed through the wall of the bus and she and the students were trying to pull me through the rest of the way. They pulled as hard as they could and spun me around in various ways in order to fit, but I just wouldn't. The bus just kept moving while I stayed still and the bus was gone.

When the effects start to die down, I feel very happy and it puts me into an interesting headspace. I can definitely see how someone might use low dose salvia as an antidepressant or at least a mood enhancer. I also feel a little off balance, but it's more like moving has become more entertaining. It really makes me want to walk around. Intriguingly, the afterglow of salvia is nearly identical to the effects of drinking coleus tea aside from the longer duration and slight sedation of coleus and a few other subtle harder to explain effects.

I have only smoked extracted salvia once. I decided to extract half a gram of plain salvia with acetone onto enough mullein to be able to smoke it in one hit. The effects weren't much different than the effects that I can achieve from my normal smoking method. This might have been due to extraction technique. I have heard that acetone can degrade the salvinorin if left to sit too long and that it degrades much easier while in solution. I let my acetone extract sit for a long time before it totally evaporated. Another thing that might have affected the relative intensity is my smoking technique. I use a torch lighter and can usually burn ½ to ¾ of bowl of plan leaf in the first hit. The torch lighter might heat the leaves hot enough to vaporize the majority of the salvinorin while not burning all the leaf material. This would mean that I almost get all the salvinorin in one hit of plain leaf and that it wouldn't be much different from half a gram extracted onto one easy hit of mullein.

These are my reflections on plain leaf salvia. Anyone else have similar experiences or any insight to offer?

 

[Metanoia]

When I first feel the effects hit me, they hit very fast with little to no comeup. My body feels like something is trying to pull it into another dimension but doesn't have the strength to get me through. Its like I'm too big for the rabbit hole and only part of my body is in the hole. Basically its like I just stay on the border of two dimensions while the salvia tries to contort my existence enough for me to cross. I can actually feel where my body has crossed the border and where it hasn't. The border line creates a distinct line of buzzing electric feelings on my skin. This feeling sometimes makes me laugh maniacally and sometimes I get this feeling that I am laughing at myself for not being able to get through the veil.

This is very common when smoking plain leaf, for myself and others. It's basically why people started to make extracts, because the plain leaf couldn't quite get you there fast enough. After a period of smoking plain leaf, say a few weeks, I am able to breakthrough with it alone.

During the trip I don't get any visuals, but when I close my eyes I can see things in my mind's eye that are clearly being caused by the salvia. It's like my brain is trying to create visual scenes using feelings. They are extremely vague scenes that never fully materialize. I can see them, but I can see through them.

This is very common for me as well. The visuals aren't like classic visuals comparable to say, mushrooms or LSD. They are fleeting CEV's that are seen with your mind's eye, rather than your visual cortex.

I often “see” what I think is the salvia entity. When I see/feel this entity, it is always female and gives off the aura of a teacher and a guide. I actually once “saw” her as the teacher from the Magic School Bus. My body had partly passed through the wall of the bus and she and the students were trying to pull me through the rest of the way. They pulled as hard as they could and spun me around in various ways in order to fit, but I just wouldn't. The bus just kept moving while I stayed still and the bus was gone.

This is just eerie. I've never told anyone before, but I have seen the teacher from the Magic School Bus too Several times. I didn't think she was "Lady Salvia" or the Salvia entity, but I have experienced exactly what you have described here. My avatar was chosen because it reminded me very strongly of those Magic School Bus experiences I've had. I haven't seen "Ms. Frizzle" for a while now, and I miss her.

When the effects start to die down, I feel very happy and it puts me into an interesting headspace. I can definitely see how someone might use low dose salvia as an antidepressant or at least a mood enhancer. I also feel a little off balance, but it's more like moving has become more entertaining. It really makes me want to walk around. Intriguingly, the afterglow of salvia is nearly identical to the effects of drinking coleus tea aside from the longer duration and slight sedation of coleus and a few other subtle harder to explain effects.

I use plain leaf mainly as an anti-depressant. It works wonders, and I've been off all pharmaceuticals for many years now. I completely agree with you about the "off balance" feeling. And also it making you feel like you want to walk around. That's when I get the giggles, is when I walk around while still feeling the effects of plain leaf.

That's interesting what you say about coleus tea. I haven't tried it before, but I think I shall have to now, if it's comparable to the afterglow from Salvia.

And as for suggestions on your smoking technique, I have none. When I first started with Salvia I was like most new users and I bought a bunch of high-end extracts until one 50x blew my head right off. I didn't do my research, and I didn't start small. But after I brokethrough with that 50x and I went down to plain leaf, I had very pronounced effects. I think it takes at least one good breakthrough dose to start off the reverse tolerance, or at least it certainly helps. My tolerance has never been the same as when I first started. Half a gram of plain leaf would probably be a guaranteed breakthrough for me. Maybe not on par with a breakthrough from a 20x, but I would go pretty far.

I'm not advocating the use of extracts, but it does sound like you're ready to take it a bit deeper. Get some 5x, or better yet make some yourself. gibran has a great thread that details much of the extraction process. The most important thing, IMO, is keeping it in near total darkness while in solution. Chilled acetone, with 1 - 2 minute washes. Rather simple to perform.

 

[PowerfulMedicine]

This is just eerie. I've never told anyone before, but I have seen the teacher from the Magic School Bus too Several times. I didn't think she was "Lady Salvia" or the Salvia entity, but I have experienced exactly what you have described here. My avatar was chosen because it reminded me very strongly of those Magic School Bus experiences I've had. I haven't seen "Ms. Frizzle" for a while now, and I miss her.

That's pretty awesome. One of the things that I have noticed is that so many people have nearly identical experiences with salvia. This leads me to speculate that maybe the images and experiences that one sees/feels on salvia are totally caused by the salvia and are only slightly influenced by your mind. To state it more clearly, your mind slightly influences the salvia entity who then decides what it will show you.

That's interesting what you say about coleus tea. I haven't tried it before, but I think I shall have to now, if it's comparable to the afterglow from Salvia.

It you try coleus tea it has to be from either Solenostemon scutelarioides or S. blumei. It also has to be very fresh. Like only a few hours old maximum. Dried leaves will do nothing IME. I tend to think that the standard colored coleus works best as opposed to hybrid varieties with different colors. Yup good old painted nettle or flame nettle variety. Even better if you can find a source of seeds from the Mazatecs in Mexico. They are the ones who originally used coleus for this purpose even though its not native to Mexico, so there must be some validity to coleus if they use it.

You need a large amount of leaves in order for it to work. At least 50 large leaves, but you should use as much as you can stomach. I usually settle around 100-200 leaves. Luckily I live in an urban area where coleus is a common ornamental, so with a bit of stealth I can collect large amounts. Only collect enough for one "trip". You also have to make sure that you only use cold to slightly warm water. The active chemical(s) are believed to be some kind of volatile alchohol that evaporates fast and breaks downs with excessive heat.

I warn you, though, it tastes horrid. Just horrid. It might make you puke. And the fact that you need to use so many leaves means that you need to a lot of water for the tea. Half a gallon (yes half a gallon of water) will definitely work for about 150 leaves. Smaller amounts might work but I haven't tested that yet. You can also achieve effects from quidding it.

So be ready for a little work. Coleus is a finnicky plant when it comes to achieving effects. If you can get through it, you will be rewarded with a 6 hours of a state similar to salvia afterglow. On top of that, the coleus has a long afterglow itself that can last for up to the whole next day. I would say that coleus is far more effective as an antidepressant than salvia for me. Just remember the effects are subtle and don't blame me if it doesn't work. Maybe I should write a more detailed coleus tek?

I'm not advocating the use of extracts, but it does sound like you're ready to take it a bit deeper. Get some 5x, or better yet make some yourself. gibran has a great thread that details much of the extraction process. The most important thing, IMO, is keeping it in near total darkness while in solution. Chilled acetone, with 1 - 2 minute washes. Rather simple to perform.

I'm actually using Gibran's method to extract some salvia right now, but the evap is going slow cuz small surface area. The acetone is evaporating in a glass jar and not a pan cuz I don't have one.

 

[Metanoia]

I just wonder why so many people see the same things. I agree with you in that these images are caused by the Salvia, and are not generated by our minds. In other words, there's something going on independent of our thought process. And it boggles my mind why we see buses, planes, trains, anything with rows of windows. And also wheels, gears, cogs.

Well, it sounds like it might take some practice, but I'm willing to give it a shot with the Coleus tea, if I can find some fresh. I've tried Calea Zacatechichi tea and that was the most horrible taste I've ever tasted. If Coleus is worse than that, I'll be astounded It would probably be beneficial if you wrote up a Coleus tek, if the plant is as difficult to work with as you say.

Good to hear someone is also making their own Salvia extracts! It's rather simple, and so much cheaper than buying extracts from a vendor who probably wouldn't take as much care into the extraction process. I've purchased extracts that were black, sticky, and rather harsh to smoke. Homemade extract is so much nicer, especially with the chilled acetone method.

 

[Mindlusion]

Hmm.. Yes I enjoyed your description, I think salvia effects everyone the same way, its just a matter of how that person describes the effects. Well, I guess this is true with most substances..

My body feels like something is trying to pull it into another dimension but doesn't have the strength to get me through. Its like I'm too big for the rabbit hole and only part of my body is in the hole. Basically its like I just stay on the border of two dimensions while the salvia tries to contort my existence enough for me to cross. I can actually feel where my body has crossed the border and where it hasn't. The border line creates a distinct line of buzzing electric feelings on my skin. This feeling sometimes makes me laugh maniacally and sometimes I get this feeling that I am laughing at myself for not being able to get through the veil.

Hmm yes, the classic salvia body effects, These always weirded me out from the very beginning. I remember when I first felt them, I was frantically shifting, moving, always uncomfortable, awkward, twisted, WEIRD. I would hurriedly remove everything from my pockets, tear my shirt and jacket off, in attempt to get more comfortable.

Although I have gained "familiarity" with these body feelings *wink wink * Even today when I smoke salvia I usually like to have nothing in my pockets, and only extremely light, easy fitting clothing.

I often “see” what I think is the salvia entity. When I see/feel this entity, it is always female and gives off the aura of a teacher and a guide. I actually once “saw” her as the teacher from the Magic School Bus. My body had partly passed through the wall of the bus and she and the students were trying to pull me through the rest of the way. They pulled as hard as they could and spun me around in various ways in order to fit, but I just wouldn't. The bus just kept moving while I stayed still and the bus was gone.

hehe, now I haven't managed to see her in salvia land, but I can definitely see where your coming from.
The salvia lady has visited me more then once in the form of professor Mcgonagall :lol: I still can't get that britsh voice out of my head.. "YOUR DOING IT WRONG! YOUR DOING IT WRONG!"

PS
if you got that "familiarity" part tell me LOL :d

 

[Psikotrope]

I've only had one breakthrough which was on a 5x extract. However I have smoked a lot of plain leaf mainly for antidepressant effects. The breakthrough I had was probably the most intense few minutes of egoloss in my life. I can only describe it as being without a body and being on some kind of surface which resembled vinyl siding. As if you pressed your face up against the side of a house with vinyl siding and looked out across it like it were an infinite plane. Doesn't really sound mindblowing but to me it was the most realistic otherworldly dimension I have ever encountered. I have no idea what it meant if anything but it was amazing.

It has been years since that experience. Now I am growing my own Salvia out of respect before I partake again. I want to have an intimate relationship with her before I visit that place again. I'm not against extracts but I think one can go as far as they need to on plain leaf alone. It just requires time and patience.

Happy travels.

 

[Mindlusion]

Plain leaf is wonderful, I really wish I started out with plain leaf instead of extract.

Ive had GREAT success with quidding.
Quidding plain leaf is amazing, It takes time and effort, and dedication. But it really helps you "ease" into the salvia dimension, and we all know its no fun getting violently pulled in. Especially combined with smoking of plain leaf, quidding is fantastic.

Sure extracts can take you far, but they definitely are not necessary to have a wonderful experience with salvia.
I don't recommend quidding and smoking strong extracts, but going on a hike on the mountain with a nice bag of salvia leaf to quid, and maybe even a few salvia leaf cigarettes:wink:

 

[Metanoia]

I've only had one breakthrough which was on a 5x extract. However I have smoked a lot of plain leaf mainly for antidepressant effects. The breakthrough I had was probably the most intense few minutes of egoloss in my life. I can only describe it as being without a body and being on some kind of surface which resembled vinyl siding. As if you pressed your face up against the side of a house with vinyl siding and looked out across it like it were an infinite plane. Doesn't really sound mindblowing but to me it was the most realistic otherworldly dimension I have ever encountered. I have no idea what it meant if anything but it was amazing.

It has been years since that experience. Now I am growing my own Salvia out of respect before I partake again. I want to have an intimate relationship with her before I visit that place again. I'm not against extracts but I think one can go as far as they need to on plain leaf alone. It just requires time and patience.

Happy travels.

Exactly my sentiments. Exactly. Nothing I've experienced (thus far) has come close to the experiences I've had from Salvia extract. Utter otherworldly and very vivid, as real as anything I've experienced. Before the DMT users chime in, I have yet to smoke DMT, so that may surpass my Salvia experiences, but we'll see Ayahuasca was very healing and introspective, but it didn't propel me to other dimensions like Salvia has done. But again, I haven't worked with ayahuasca as extensively.

Plain leaf is wonderful, I really wish I started out with plain leaf instead of extract.

Ive had GREAT success with quidding.
Quidding plain leaf is amazing, It takes time and effort, and dedication. But it really helps you "ease" into the salvia dimension, and we all know its no fun getting violently pulled in. Especially combined with smoking of plain leaf, quidding is fantastic.

Sure extracts can take you far, but they definitely are not necessary to have a wonderful experience with salvia.
I don't recommend quidding and smoking strong extracts, but going on a hike on the mountain with a nice bag of salvia leaf to quid, and maybe even a few salvia leaf cigarettes

Again, exactly my thoughts. I wish I would have given it the respect it deserves from the beginning and started out with plain leaf. But I feel those terrifying first experiences were beneficial, in their own way.

Quidding and smoking plain leaf is one of the most healing experiences I've had. Quidding and smoking extracts was so intense, I don't suggest most people do it either. Unless you're extremely experienced with it and you want to see how deep you can go...but be prepared for an extended period in Salviaspace.

 

[PowerfulMedicine]

Plain leaf is wonderful, I really wish I started out with plain leaf instead of extract.

Ive had GREAT success with quidding.
Quidding plain leaf is amazing, It takes time and effort, and dedication. But it really helps you "ease" into the salvia dimension, and we all know its no fun getting violently pulled in. Especially combined with smoking of plain leaf, quidding is fantastic.

I have found that I am really reluctant to smoke extracted salvia. Not because I'm scared but cuz it doesn't seem natural. I really enjoy the simplicity of just smoking plain leaf. It gives you a better chance to cultivate your relationship with the plant.

I have this theory that salvia builds a reverse tolerance over time not because of some chemical processes in the brain but because of your relationship with salvia. As you get more comfortable with salvia and salvia gets more comfortable with you, maybe the salvia decides to help out a bit more with taking you to the salvia land.

I have noticed very slight reverse tolerance. From my experience it seems like the salvia wants me to break through, but with such a low dose the salvia doesn't have enough juice to pull me through. With each attempt that I try plain leaf, it seems that the salvia has figured out how to pull me just a nudge farther in. I wonder if I will ever break through just with plain leaf.

I have really been wanting to get my own salvia plant for a while, but sadly I live somewhere where it was illegal even before all the hubub about salvia so I have had a hard time finding a vendor willing to send me a plant. Not to mention that it's pretty expensive to buy a live plant. I don't want to try quidding dry leaves even if they are reconstituted first. From I've read, fresh leaves work much better.

On another note, I am going to start working on a detailed coleus tek very soon. Spring break is coming up so I will have plenty of time.

 

[Metanoia]

I know what you mean PowerfulMedicine. I've smoked extracts pretty extensively in the past, but now I find it much more satisfying (and comfortable) to smoke just plain leaf. To really experience the reverse tolerance I do believe you have to take a few deep forays into Salviaspace, however. In time you may be able to breakthrough with plain leaf alone, who knows? Most people don't stick with it for that long to find out. It does seem like the Salvia opens up more the more you partake. It's a learning process essentially, at least IMO. You learn how to navigate the headspace and go deeper with time. It's a wonderful thing, the reverse tolerance. Most substances lose their magic in time, Salvia only gains it.

Salvia plants aren't really expensive, but if it's illegal where you live, that's probably why people have quoted higher prices. Sad that people take advantage like that.

I look forward to reading (and trying out) your Coleus tek!

 

[gibran2]

For those who can break through on plain leaf and don’t mind inhaling large volumes of smoke, I think plain leaf is a very good alternative.

I’ve always used extracts, in spite of the fact that I seem fairly sensitive to salvinorin A. I did try an experiment once with plain leaf – my mini-bong holds about 100mg of plain leaf, so I loaded it up and was able to inhale it all in two huge inhalations.

It was almost enough for a breakthrough. Enough to sense “the other side”, but not enough to actually get there. I think I’d probably need another 100mg to have a mild breakthrough. But that’s 4 massive hits. That’s a lot of smoke for someone like myself who doesn’t ordinarily smoke.

And that’s why I stick with extracts (20X). I don’t want the focus of the experience to be on getting the dose into my system. With a carefully measured dose of extract (18mg), I can inhale a full dose in a few seconds, then I can lie back and get comfortable while holding the smoke for about 20 seconds.

I’ve never found the warping/morphing transition to the salvia realm to be unpleasant. In fact, I’ve never really had a seriously difficult experience with salvia. To those who haven’t yet had a breakthrough I’d say that you’re really missing out on the salvia experience. A salvia breakthrough experience is quite unique.

I grow my own salvia (for nearly 4 years now), and prepare my own extracts, and I make a point of thinking about that prior to launch. In fact, I always have at least one live salvia plant present in the room with me during a salvia experience.

Regarding quidding – quidding just isn’t for me. I have all the fresh leaves I need, and I’ve tried quidding a few times, but the taste becomes unbearable after a while, and even with a large number of leaves, I barely got any effects at all. The Mazatecs say a quid should consist of 13 pairs of leaves. I’ve shown this photo of 13 pairs of leaves before, but here it is again. That’s a lot of leaves:

 

[PowerfulMedicine]

For those who can break through on plain leaf and don’t mind inhaling large volumes of smoke, I think plain leaf is a very good alternative.

I’ve always used extracts, in spite of the fact that I seem fairly sensitive to salvinorin A. I did try an experiment once with plain leaf – my mini-bong holds about 100mg of plain leaf, so I loaded it up and was able to inhale it all in two huge inhalations.

I can see the benefit of using extracts. Plain leaf is just not for everybody and you can't easily breakthrough on it. It probably works best for people with really good lung capacity than for someone without. For me, 100mg of plain leaf is only a medium inhalation. I'm pretty sure that I can get 250mg in one huge inhalation. But I'm an an athletic person. My best mile run time is around 5min 30secs so I have a very healthy respiratory system that can take periodic minor abuse from smoking plain leaf.

 

[Metanoia]

You make good points gibran, and I can see where you're coming from. I'm also a pretty athletic person, and I've never really thought about my lung capacity, but it must be rather good. I can take 200mg - 300mg of plain leaf in one large hit, much like PowerfulMedicine can. I used to smoke cigarettes, and also a lot of cannabis, so I suppose I'm used to handling large amounts of smoke. It is much easier to work with extracts if you're speaking about volumes of smoke, that's for sure. And I'm not trying to say that extracts are somehow less spiritual or respectful, but plain leaf does seem to give me a different vibe, a more healing energy. It could all be in my mind, but I do feel there is some subtle difference.

I also agree with you about the quidding. It's not my preferred method of administration. I've yet to even try it with fresh leaf, because I find smoking plain leaf more to my liking. I've achieved effects from quidding, but the most pronounced experiences were when I combined quidding and smoking.

 

[rOm]

Plain leaf is different vibe, it's porbably due to either the balance or terpenoids (salvinorins) and/or mindset.
Though never tried yet quidding fresh leaves, I found the tincture most pleasurable but... It may burn your mucose skin tissue as hell !!
As burning mounth and wounded mouth !

 

[maxzar100]

For me it takes two big bowls of high quality leaf (3.5 mg/g leaf) out of a water pipe before I get visuals. The visuals are mostly just distortion of objects around me, everything moves quickly and things warp and melt together like a dali picture. But sometimes when I smoke just a little less, I will get auditory hallucinations, like peoples voices sound different, and then I can't hear one specific person at all.... Salvia can be a trickster...