syberdelic
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My spirituality has been challenged
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Legarto Rey
Rising Star
Post for fun. No dis on anyone!
Functional inhibition of MAOI, such that orally ingested tryptamines will be reliably "active", is an art and science. Consumption of the requisite "large" doses of brewed B.cappi(50-150g) IS often quite emetogenic. This degree of protracted "maracion"(all at sea) is NOT a sign of, "chakra resistance". It is indeed evidence of "poisoning". Generally, consumption of significant amounts of non-foodstuff plant material(roots, stems, seeds, bark, wood, leaves, etc..) can and will cause symptoms of poisoning. The idea that ingestion of large amounts of B.cappi crude extracts(needed for appropriate MAOI), won't cause poisoning, in the average non-habituated Western adult, is uninformed.
IMO, to embrace a fully "modern" approach to anahuasca is only rational. The Nexus has brung the DMT extract to the proles. Wow, consider that!!!!
We FORGET. We always forget. The absolute liberation of the "Self" that the free exchange of psychedelic knowledge facilitated by the Nexus allows, should never be underestimated!
Peace
Functional inhibition of MAOI, such that orally ingested tryptamines will be reliably "active", is an art and science. Consumption of the requisite "large" doses of brewed B.cappi(50-150g) IS often quite emetogenic. This degree of protracted "maracion"(all at sea) is NOT a sign of, "chakra resistance". It is indeed evidence of "poisoning". Generally, consumption of significant amounts of non-foodstuff plant material(roots, stems, seeds, bark, wood, leaves, etc..) can and will cause symptoms of poisoning. The idea that ingestion of large amounts of B.cappi crude extracts(needed for appropriate MAOI), won't cause poisoning, in the average non-habituated Western adult, is uninformed.
IMO, to embrace a fully "modern" approach to anahuasca is only rational. The Nexus has brung the DMT extract to the proles. Wow, consider that!!!!
We FORGET. We always forget. The absolute liberation of the "Self" that the free exchange of psychedelic knowledge facilitated by the Nexus allows, should never be underestimated!
Peace
HumbleTraveler777
Rising Star
I didn't use the term chakra resistance... I'm implying that in my own experiences and those I know that prolonged nausea and excessive vomiting is brought about by resistance to the medicine by holding on to a particular thought or feeling. (A friend of mine has drank 20 plus times and hasn't yacked once, weird eh)?!
I embrace both rational and non rational approaches. Some things are beyond common western logic of what is and isn't possible.
I have great Appreciation of the nexus!
I embrace both rational and non rational approaches. Some things are beyond common western logic of what is and isn't possible.
I have great Appreciation of the nexus!
syberdelic
Rising Star
delete me
I'm sorry your experience didn't work out, but I disagree with a lot of what your saying and think you need to take responsibility for what went down and not blame ayahuasca or their traditional culture. from a spiritual perspective that attitude is unhealthy and perhaps if you had followed through as they recommended you might have made progress. Not for sure but you'll never no now will you? Your not entitled to gain mystical enlightenment from one ayahuasca tour spiritual work requires years of dedication, to think that the shamans or trained spiritual masters really have no true insight is wrong thinking imo.
it's just my opinion
it's just my opinion
BecometheOther said:
Agreed.
Getting a bad taste in your mouth from the experience of a specific ayahuasquero and his/her brews doesn't necessarily equate to all ayahuasqueros, their practices and/or brews. It's all about doing your homework thoroughly before deciding to take and put your life at the whim of someone elses ceremonies. There's bad ones, better ones, good ones, ones not as knowledgeable, some really knowledgeable, etc - they're people just like me and you, so they will vary in that sense.
Ayahuasca can vary so widely as well, and that's why I will always stick with personal empowerment through brewing these things myself. You mentioned 'carving your own path' - which in that regard I completely agree with.
I would be cautious in speaking in absolutes just because of one specific scenario/set of scenarios, that can be just as treacherous a line of thinking as 'spirituality being reckless and irresponsible' imo.
Be well
Swayambhu
Rising Star
BecometheOther said:
Wow! Textbook nu-age group-think victim blaming right here; Ayahuasca hurt your tummy because you are a bad, or let's say "imperfect" person. No other possible reason. To blame anyone but yourself for your physiological discomfort is….
BecometheOther said:
Incredible!
PsyDuckmonkey
witch
Hey... welcome @syberdelic
I can relate to your experience, though I have to note that a feeling of physiological sickness / poisoning during a psychedelic trip is not necessarily actual poisoning from the drug you've taken.
The victim blaming prevalent in new age circles is extremely harmful though, and pisses me off. However, I've had experiences with 2C-B and mushrooms where I was beset by a deep sense of physical unwellness... and it turned out that it wasn't actual toxic effects from the drug, but a pre-existing illness that came up front through drastically changed body awareness on the drug - both times I came down with a bad case of flu within days.
(Note this is quite different from saying it's because you have "inner demons", but yea, feeling poisoned during a trip and actually being poisoned are two different things. If you value scientific thinking, it's good to keep this in mind.)
Anyway, @Fenrir mentioned that "ayahuasca tours have become very commercialized"... Well no shit Sherlock, the very concept of an ayahuasca tour is a commercialized monstrosity. It has been from the start, just as all the Indian guru tours that the rich and famous did back in the 60s. There is nothing authentic about flying to Peru, to take drugs in a society you're unfamiliar with, according to a religion you are unaffiliated with. We're not native rainforest hunters-gatherers.
A rainforest shaman knows jack shit about Western culture and psychology, just as much as we know jack shit about their culture. We have a bias to see the distant and exotic as somehow more valid. If we're keeping within the realms of dogmatic religion, a Catholic priest probably knows just as much and carries just as much wisdom as your Peruvian aya shaman (especially if that aya shaman happens to be a former bus driver or something who did a two week course on shamaning rich westerners). Even though I'm not Christian either, I'd definitely trust a Catholic priest (especially a Franciscan) long before even considering trusting some self-titled shaman-for-hire.
I've never been to Peru to drink aya, but I'm very intimately familiar with how "enlightened masters" are manufactured in the Western new age subculture, and it's not pretty. Most of these people are irresponsible good-for-nothings or downright crooks, who learned the lingo and developed enough chutzpah to be able to take all the aggrandizement and adoration from their "followers" with a straight face.
Anyway, unfortunately the overzealous, judgemental approach is quite prevalent in psychonaut circles everywhere, just as evidenced by the condescending jabs at your person and the validity of your experience. Still, I urge you to try and understand that being spiritual is not quite the same as this. The point being, don't give yourself into the hand of others (especially others you know nothing about), and keep an open mind.
I can relate to your experience, though I have to note that a feeling of physiological sickness / poisoning during a psychedelic trip is not necessarily actual poisoning from the drug you've taken.
The victim blaming prevalent in new age circles is extremely harmful though, and pisses me off. However, I've had experiences with 2C-B and mushrooms where I was beset by a deep sense of physical unwellness... and it turned out that it wasn't actual toxic effects from the drug, but a pre-existing illness that came up front through drastically changed body awareness on the drug - both times I came down with a bad case of flu within days.
(Note this is quite different from saying it's because you have "inner demons", but yea, feeling poisoned during a trip and actually being poisoned are two different things. If you value scientific thinking, it's good to keep this in mind.)
Anyway, @Fenrir mentioned that "ayahuasca tours have become very commercialized"... Well no shit Sherlock, the very concept of an ayahuasca tour is a commercialized monstrosity. It has been from the start, just as all the Indian guru tours that the rich and famous did back in the 60s. There is nothing authentic about flying to Peru, to take drugs in a society you're unfamiliar with, according to a religion you are unaffiliated with. We're not native rainforest hunters-gatherers.
A rainforest shaman knows jack shit about Western culture and psychology, just as much as we know jack shit about their culture. We have a bias to see the distant and exotic as somehow more valid. If we're keeping within the realms of dogmatic religion, a Catholic priest probably knows just as much and carries just as much wisdom as your Peruvian aya shaman (especially if that aya shaman happens to be a former bus driver or something who did a two week course on shamaning rich westerners). Even though I'm not Christian either, I'd definitely trust a Catholic priest (especially a Franciscan) long before even considering trusting some self-titled shaman-for-hire.
I've never been to Peru to drink aya, but I'm very intimately familiar with how "enlightened masters" are manufactured in the Western new age subculture, and it's not pretty. Most of these people are irresponsible good-for-nothings or downright crooks, who learned the lingo and developed enough chutzpah to be able to take all the aggrandizement and adoration from their "followers" with a straight face.
Anyway, unfortunately the overzealous, judgemental approach is quite prevalent in psychonaut circles everywhere, just as evidenced by the condescending jabs at your person and the validity of your experience. Still, I urge you to try and understand that being spiritual is not quite the same as this. The point being, don't give yourself into the hand of others (especially others you know nothing about), and keep an open mind.
syberdelic
Rising Star
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john8oy
Rising Star
Interesting discussion going on here. I have to say that the respect between opposing opinions is a refreshing experience. Quite unlike some of the other online forums i inhabit. I too was considering taking a trip to Peru. I live in Oz but i'm irish. So i reckon i'll take in a trip to Holland next time i head home and maybe try the ayahuasca retreat there ?
Regarding the vomitting being because of your purging emotions and all of that.. I've done lots of "new age" kind of therapys and in my experience the most rewarding therapies are the gentlest. Buddhist medititation and the like.
Then again i am totally inexperienced with psychedelics so take what i say with a grain of salt. Horses for courses and all of that !
Regarding the vomitting being because of your purging emotions and all of that.. I've done lots of "new age" kind of therapys and in my experience the most rewarding therapies are the gentlest. Buddhist medititation and the like.
Then again i am totally inexperienced with psychedelics so take what i say with a grain of salt. Horses for courses and all of that !
PsyDuckmonkey
witch
The way I see it, "purging" is just a nicer word for saying "vomiting", like you'd say "take a stool" as opposed to "shit". I seriously doubt it has anything to do with emotions. Pretty much everyone vomits on aya, it's plainly because the brew is quite disagreeable to your digestive tract.
That said, the physical feeling of getting stuff (especially nasty stuff like the aya brew) out of your body can feel liberating and/or cleansing. I had a "white mage" pal who used to constantly spit because it made him feel "energetically cleaner" than swallowing his saliva. (Made him look like an uncultured bumpkin though.) So symbolism goes a long way.
Anyway if you want an aya experience with someone's leadership / guidance, I'd go with Holland in your place, no question.. and look for a retreat that has an actual psychologist overseeing it.
That said, the physical feeling of getting stuff (especially nasty stuff like the aya brew) out of your body can feel liberating and/or cleansing. I had a "white mage" pal who used to constantly spit because it made him feel "energetically cleaner" than swallowing his saliva. (Made him look like an uncultured bumpkin though.) So symbolism goes a long way.
Anyway if you want an aya experience with someone's leadership / guidance, I'd go with Holland in your place, no question.. and look for a retreat that has an actual psychologist overseeing it.
syberdelic
Rising Star
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