Need advice... Considering ayahuasca for depression.

[ragabr]

It's normal for natives the daily intake of hikuri, even in young age, but even if assessed useful by many testimonials ayah is rarely used in that way.

From what I understand, it's fairly normal for indigenous people to take ayahuasca on a regular/daily basis. It's certainly normal for many people here on the Nexus. I could be wrong, regarding indigenous use, that it's only a specific population that use it on a daily basis, the "shamans," but it's still common amongst them.

In my opinion caapi-only intake is another approach : i believe that for depression it is better that an admisture containing brew, given that DMT could be more dissociative. I agree also that microdoses require almost none food restriction, but it depends largely by what one's usual diet is .

What are you basing this belief on? Why do you think a more dissociative experience would help more with depression?

Regarding the dosing, even high doses of caapi do not require a food restriction.

I think you're ignoring the fact that harmalas naturally act as anti-depressants and are active for this purpose in very low doses, like those found in caapi microdoses.

It's also worth remember that nausea and purge are an important aspect of the healing and re-balancing potentialities of these plants.

Again, you're going to have to share where you're basing this information on, as it goes completely against my experience, and that of many here on the Nexus. A lot of people here do not purge at all, on their Caapi journeys. I personally have only purged once, and that was when I foolishly decided to take it on a bus trip and got major motion sickness.

When I have worked with Rue in the past, I had much more nausea, and would purge, but never with Caapi. The nausea can be completely eliminated for me, by applying the tannin-binding tek, or using Gibran2's tek, and I haven't lost any of the healing aspects of the plant.

 

[DMTripper]

What do you call a microdose of caapi?
And what would be a microdose of extracted caapi harmalas?

 

[gazal]

It's normal for natives the daily intake of hikuri, even in young age, but even if assessed useful by many testimonials ayah is rarely used in that way.

From what I understand, it's fairly normal for indigenous people to take ayahuasca on a regular/daily basis. It's certainly normal for many people here on the Nexus. I could be wrong, regarding indigenous use, that it's only a specific population that use it on a daily basis, the "shamans," but it's still common amongst them.

No, it is not normal, at least for what i've learned reading lots of stuff and during my limited experience in southamerica.
Until proved differently I suggest to stick to this assumption.
Instead hikuri is.
Clearly here we are speaking of low doses.

In my opinion caapi-only intake is another approach : i believe that for depression it is better that an admisture containing brew, given that DMT could be more dissociative. I agree also that microdoses require almost none food restriction, but it depends largely by what one's usual diet is .

What are you basing this belief on? Why do you think a more dissociative experience would help more with depression?

I was saying the opposite indeed: dissociatives do not help depression, but the grounding effect of harmalas alone do.

Regarding the dosing, even high doses of caapi do not require a food restriction.

I think you're ignoring the fact that harmalas naturally act as anti-depressants and are active for this purpose in very low doses, like those found in caapi microdoses.

Again it depends what you diet usually is: the MAOI-A food lists to avoid are well known and estabilished. I doubt you ignore them, even if you don't agree with them for every item listed there, i really don't understand the sense of your statement.

Yes, I know harmalas benefits, but for what said above, they require a less flexible regimen than peyote.

It's also worth remember that nausea and purge are an important aspect of the healing and re-balancing potentialities of these plants.

Again, you're going to have to share where you're basing this information on, as it goes completely against my experience, and that of many here on the Nexus. A lot of people here do not purge at all, on their Caapi journeys. I personally have only purged once, and that was when I foolishly decided to take it on a bus trip and got major motion sickness.

When I have worked with Rue in the past, I had much more nausea, and would purge, but never with Caapi. The nausea can be completely eliminated for me, by applying the tannin-binding tek, or using Gibran2's tek, and I haven't lost any of the healing aspects of the plant.

I never purge as well - but I'd like: in fact my suggestion was that avoiding purge is not necessarily an improvement of the experience, because the body involvement has its great importance during the healing re-balance. This was recently execellently treated by Steve Beyer in his article about the grotesque-body, which I recommend to everybody to take into account. Another reference could be this.
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A definition of Microdoses, could be that they are sub-threshold quantities of an active substance you can't use for tripping but that by time influence your biochemestry. For example about 1gr of S.Rue, or 15 gr of Caapi: under 1/3 of the usually effective dose. It is the frequency to become the useful factor when working with microdoses.

 

[ragabr]

What do you call a microdose of caapi?
And what would be a microdose of extracted caapi harmalas?

Any amount of caapi brew that doesn't result in harmala intoxication, I would consider a microdose. For my own practice, I'll brew a normal concentration brew, and just take a small sip of it two or three times a day. I know that Ms Minxx was using unreduced brews for her microdosing. I've never used extracted caapi harmalas for microdosing, but with rue harmalas, 30mgs twice a day were enough. For caapi, I'd expect about double that.

In my opinion caapi-only intake is another approach : i believe that for depression it is better that an admisture containing brew, given that DMT could be more dissociative. I agree also that microdoses require almost none food restriction, but it depends largely by what one's usual diet is .

I was saying the opposite indeed: dissociatives do not help depression, but the grounding effect of harmalas alone do.

Ahh, okay, your typo made that unclear.

Again it depends what you diet usually is: the MAOI-A food lists to avoid are well known and estabilished. I doubt you ignore them, even if you don't agree with them for every item listed there, i really don't understand the sense of your statement.

Yes, I know harmalas benefits, but for what said above, they require a less flexible regimen than peyote.

Caapi harmals are RIMA's and so you do not have to follow the dietary restrictions you listed, and it's been well established here on the Nexus that they can be ignored by most people. I believe that soulfood reports having headaches when eating stinky cheeses while on caapi, but he is an exception.

I do completely ignore the dietary restrictions, other than trying to have an empty stomach when going under, so that my body metabolizes the caapi quickly. Cheeseburgers and beer more than 12-hours before, or immediately after the caapi experience do not cause any problems for me.

Edit: Cheeseburgers within 12-hours do not cause any physical problems for me either, they simply increase the time and dosage it takes for the caapi to work.

I never purge as well - but I'd like: in fact my suggestion was that avoiding purge is not necessarily an improvement of the experience, because the body involvement has its great importance during the healing re-balance. This was recently execellently treated by Steve Beyer in his article about the grotesque-body, which I recommend to everybody to take into account. Another reference could be this.

Okay, I just read the Beyer article and skimmed your other link. They don't present any evidence at all that the purge is beneficial. They each make claims based off of traditional practices, which may or may not be be true. The only way we can actually find out is by sharing our own experiences. In the past, I did not find the rue-mediated journeys, which involved a lot of purging to have any improved effect over the ayahuasca-mediated journey without any purging. In fact, just the opposite, the purging experiences invariably left me feeling worse drained the next day, while the aya experiences always leave me with an amazing afterglow.
---------

A definition of Microdoses, could be that they are sub-threshold quantities of an active substance you can't use for tripping but that by time influence your biochemestry. For example about 1gr of S.Rue, or 15 gr of Caapi: under 1/3 of the usually effective dose. It is the frequency to become the useful factor when working with microdoses.

I definitely agree with this, great way to put it.

 

[ms_manic_minxx]

Aya is by far the best tool I've encountered in helping to deconstruct, address, and reprogram the causes of depression... You, ultimately, are the one who must do the work. But it's the difference between trying to paint a picture with an elaborate set of brushes, vs. using a baseball bat. Some things are just better suited to certain tasks than others.

I don't think the purge can be reduced to an all-or-nothing statement in terms of efficacy.

I sometimes puke ten minutes after drinking Chaliponga, sometimes all over the table I would sit to drink at. Nothing special there, except for maybe some new stains on the table.

I HAVE, however, purged in times of EXTREME emotional stress and found the experiences *MOST* cathartic.

 

[magickpsychonaut]

Caapi has saved my life and I just posted a thread with pics about my own personal regimen with caapi.
I felt like an emotional and spiritual cripple for most of my life and suicide was the most comforting
thing I could think of at the end of the day for years and years. I am so thankful to have found the nexus,
entheogens, caapi , and myself. Hope it helps.

Using caapi for severe depression - Help and Advice for Healing - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

 

[DMTripper]

Caapi has saved my life and I just posted a thread with pics about my own personal regimen with caapi.
I felt like an emotional and spiritual cripple for most of my life and suicide was the most comforting
thing I could think of at the end of the day for years and years. I am so thankful to have found the nexus,
entheogens, caapi , and myself. Hope it helps.

Using caapi for severe depression - Help and Advice for Healing - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

Glad to hear that Would like to have a "like" button for this comment of yours

I wish MAOI's and plants containing them weren't regulated where I live.
Then I could experiment more on them.

 

[byallmeansart]

Caapi has saved my life and I just posted a thread with pics about my own personal regimen with caapi.
I felt like an emotional and spiritual cripple for most of my life and suicide was the most comforting
thing I could think of at the end of the day for years and years. I am so thankful to have found the nexus,
entheogens, caapi , and myself. Hope it helps.

Using caapi for severe depression - Help and Advice for Healing - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

I came from about the same place as you. I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder at 16 years old as it runs in the men in my family. I was such a horribly broken person, I ended up attempting suicide about a month before my 17th birthday, via morphine overdose. Luckily, I was administered Naloxone before it was too late and I snapped out of it immediately. I spent half a year in a drug rehab (I had a pretty heavy psychological addiction to dissociatives), and once I got out began my work with ayahuasca, something that had always interested me.

I can say with confidence that ayahuasca is responsible for my healing. I haven't been on medication for over a year now, and while I am no mental health professional, I consider myself fully cured, as I haven't had any manic/depressive freakouts for a very long time (they used to happen on a regular basis). I have become so much more comfortable in my own skin, learning to love myself and others, letting go of the same hatred that you speak of, Eternity. My life is infinitely better than it once was, and I no longer wish to die to end the pain and suffering. Also, I no longer feel the need to have a significant other in my life to feel completed. This is the longest period that I have been single (and happy about it!) since I started "dating." It was thanks to aya that I was able to end a long series of highly codependent, broken relationships.

So, like Ms. Manic Minxx said above, I don't think ayahuasca will outright CURE you, because I don't believe you actually have a physical disease that needs curing. I view mental disorders (except for perhaps schizophrenia, but even that one I'm not totally sure about) as not a CAUSE of pain, but rather the EFFECT of pain. Something inside you needs healing, and that is why the depression manifests. Please understand that this is all opinion, I'm not mental health professional, but I feel that I can speak at least somewhat confidently, having gone through all of this for myself. SSRI's are like bandaids, they just cover up the rotting gashes on your mind. Ayahuasca, on the other hand, is an insanely powerful diagnostic tool that will help you not only find out what is causing the infection, but learn to eradicate it and become a whole, healthy person.

Happy traveling!