• Members of the previous forum can retrieve their temporary password here, (login and check your PM).

New DMT Tek at Erowid

Migrated topic.
Sort by date Sort by votes
[quote:1f31da8c5a="El Ka Bong"] I started here: Erowid DMT Vaults : Extraction : QT's DMT Extraction Guide [/quote:1f31da8c5a] fyi, this is a questionable tek [quote:1f31da8c5a="El Ka Bong"] Acidify the water and MHRB with < 30 ml 35% HCL - this makes a pH 2. Then heat to 50 Deg C for 1 - 3 hours, and shake the jug often. [/quote:1f31da8c5a] aim for pH 4, pH 2 can start to damage the DMT if i remember correctly the pKa of dmt is 8.86, so if it's in a solution where the pH is a little below 6, all the freebase dmt will be converted to salt (from memory and discussions, i'm no chemist so i can't validate that) and be damn careful when you shake that jug man if you shake while the jug and outmost liquid are hot, but the liquid in the middle is still cool, prepare for a big fucking mess [quote:1f31da8c5a="El Ka Bong"] Use the filtered acid extract in the lye-stage, trying to keep naphtha in contact with the black, pH 11 solution for 30 min or less. [/quote:1f31da8c5a] pH 11 isn't high enough you want to push it to pH 14, the dmt molecule is quite stable in retrospect and can handle high pH quite well. however too low pH can mess with it [quote:1f31da8c5a="El Ka Bong"] No chemist, or any body who understands what they are doing, would ever skip the acidified extraction step - it's proper procedure. Imo, if you skip the acid-step it is because you don't understand what you are doing, and have never understood what make dmt soluble. Perhaps it follows then that those who skip the 'proper' procedure won't care about yeild or maybe even purity and the risk to health and safety. [/quote:1f31da8c5a] aaaactually [img:1f31da8c5a]http://www.wetdreams.ws/forum/images/icon_smile_big.gif[/img:1f31da8c5a] straight to base is a good idea if you can work with the mess all your doing is putting your bark into a high pH solution, making all the spice freebase and insoluble in water (but soluble in shellite). so to your high pH + bark mess add shellite and shake, the DMT base will more than happily move into the shellite if anything, straight to base gives you a better chance at getting a higher yield, as if you persist with the initial acid cook, you're introducing an extra level of losses [quote:1f31da8c5a="El Ka Bong"] You can get twice the mileage from 1.0 kg MHRB when you drive correctly or 'properly', by not skipping the acidified stage. The psyiological effects of lye contaminated dmt are BAD ! Just go smoke some lye to get a feel for that ..! or put a grain on your tongue ! And the effects of lye-corrupted dmt are also BAD ! I call it like "getting run over by the Hyperspace bus, but NOT getting picked up for the ride - instead you get dragged behind ..!" So .. still nobody has given good reason to skip the acid-step - I sense that people just don't care and they'll smoke anything, regardless of yeild and quality, and health and safety ...[/quote:1f31da8c5a] the last thing i'll say, is that (thankfully) NaOH is damn hard to get to dissolve in shellite. i've messed around with it and couldn't even get clean shellite to raise in pH (telling me that no NaOH is floating around in there) i was a little worried about this, i thought my beautiful white spice may in fact just be a shitload of NaOH, hehe thankfully that's not the case anyway, the spice is in the bark, get it out technique isn't all that important, as long as your technique is good enough to actually work. if you do it well, then you'll get the vast majority of what's in there fyi the only reason i acid cook is because i hate fucking around with extraction vessels that aren't only liquid, ghetto seperatory funnels do not appreciate large amounts plant material floating around [img:1f31da8c5a]http://www.wetdreams.ws/forum/images/blow.gif[/img:1f31da8c5a]
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Coschi - everything is questionable ..! So I question you: do you know your chemistry ?! - from the meaning of yeild to pKa's... you are musing aloud, playing and misinforming people. Let's coin a new term - "ghetto dmt' ... Smoking pure Dmt is dangerous .. lye is dangerous. ... HCL is dangerous ... ! Naphtha explodes ! Each substance in their own inherent way - is dangerous ! By not understanding the process od acid-base separation, and you go ahead and 'lazyman' your way through it, you are dangerous ! ..! or you'll smoke anything that's 'close enough'... right ..!? And you'll throw out half of your spice, and pretend it's "good enough".>!?..? If you understand the process, down to the pH required to solubilize ALL the dmt, then you can make-up your own tek. The Lye crock pot does NOT make dmt become soluble at pH 14 ... All tryptamines need to be protonated to become soluble, so pH 4 usually is the target. Below a pH of 4 requires more Lye useage to basify to 11, so I say pH 2 - 4 is it. See here .. or just Google to learn more ... but don't 'wing' it ... and risk anything about your precious health and mind... http://www.chem.ualberta.ca/~orglabs/separation/Theory/theory4_1.htm "Amines" ie 'tryptamines' are equivalent examples here... Or - Answers - The Most Trusted Place for Answering Life's Questions
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Yanno, eek! a bong you've pretty much proven to anyone on this forum that's extracted DMT that you have never extracted DMT and are just paraphrasing shit you're finding on the web, so why don't you start your own thread and stop cluttering up mine with this bullshit?
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
... yes; I only speak from experience. And I don't mean to go on forever, but I still have some to say... trying to clarify my point - There is a "Proper Procedure" and deviating from it has no logic. With the Acid -base method, and judicious use of lye, you get maximum yeild, and highest purity, and no 'painful' dmt experiences. Maybe Marsofold could pipe up here .. and relate some experience too..? I guess there's a catharsis for me, to saying this over and over ... I don't want to put anybody off - I want to get to the hard-core-chemist's truth here ... What good reason is there to skip the Acid-extraction step..? I have not tried any of the just-the lye methods - Simply because they WILL yeild 50% LESS than the proper procedure, so why bother..? I 'imagine' that I know what I am doing to the dmt molecule... Lye first is a god-awful treatment..! H+ from acid "protonates" the dmt making it charged (+1); this means adds a H+ (proton) to the dmt molecule. So when dmt is 1+ charged, water molecules surround it ( a hydration sphere forms). This effect of water will protect the dmt molecule somewhat, and it is especially stable if refrigerated. H+ is not as harmful as OH- is to dmt. Lye makes :OH- and :OH- has two 'free electrons' tha can attack and break other chemical bonds in the dmt molecule. H+ from acidity is 'harmless' in comparison to how damaging :OH- is. Lye also puts Na (sodium) into the water - Na is a metal; do you want to shovel 100 - 10,000 times more NaOH into the extraction procedure, just because a pH meter can't read past 13.5..?..? A pH of 11 is damaging to dmt in 30 minutes, but a pH of 2 - 4 will not damage dmt for days and days... or for weeks if at 4 deg C. And yes, I thought THIKAL was also a reference for extractions .. I've only thumbed through it... I was just spewin' then when I said 'go look it up' - about how come any chemist worth his or her 'salt' is never going to recommend skipping the Acid step- I also wonder which real chemist out there would recommend using a pH of 13.5 to simply get the dmt to escape from the aqueous into the naphtha..? A pH of 13.5 is fighteningly high ! You can't go past 14..! This is more than needed... and this excess lye opens the door to BAD batches of dmt. If my understanding is correct, if the pKa of dmt is around 8.5, all you need is a pH of 10.5 to 11 to deprotonate and then chase all the dmt into the naphtha. ( this is already 100 - 1000 times more OH- than the pKa of 8.5). The basification is stopped when the solution goes jet-black since you're well over 100 times more OH- than the pKa . I have seen, tasted and smoked swim's yeilds that are all lye-contaminated. Just put a scraping on your tongue and it's caustic ! Naphtha will pick up lye too, especially if you heat the lye-and-naphtha you get a nice batch of "ghetto-dmt" with a hefty "2%" yeild ! ...
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
[quote:803cdc2262] Yanno, eek! a bong you've pretty much proven to anyone on this forum that's extracted DMT that you have never extracted DMT and are just paraphrasing shit you're finding on the web, so why don't you start your own thread and stop cluttering up mine with this bullshit? [/quote:803cdc2262] No need for that Noman. Everyone has their different methods so Let's keep things friendly.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Sorry Blackclover. I won't fight with him anymore. It just pisses me off because I consider Eek's brand of shit to be spam. I mean, this community has in common agreement that QT's tek just doesn't work and then he comes on a thread that posts an alternative and says "Hey why not use QT's tek?" He obviously doesn't know what he's talking about to any experienced extractor and fills the thread debating issues that we've already settled elsewhere (pH's for example) instead of reading pertinent threads and actually learning something. He "KNOWS" that this procedure will yield 50% less but refuses to test it and then goes on to talk about "real chemists". But I won't fight him anymore.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
No arguement- just facts - you'll get 0.7 - 0.9 % yeild by doing an acid base extraxction. I know trhis from experience ... The lye-bucket method yeilds are reported too, I don't need to repeat them to confirm. A real chemist could use theory to predict the yeild. The highest I have heard about for Lye-bucket extraction is 0.5% but lower as well is reported. Impure spice has a higher than normal yeild - a "2%" result is very suspect and likely full of something else... No one has yet answered my question; which ture chemist would ever skip the acid extraction stage, and for what reason. I am simply asking and telling what I know, albeit a little excitedly .... The answer so far is that some folks don't care about losing 50% of their yeild (or don't understand what this means). And the truth seems to be that the dangers of getting bad dmt are ignored - with the lye-bucket-and-naphtha 'tek' you can seriously contaminate your reduced yeild. I speak from experience - with lots of kitchen science, and I worked as an organic chemist. Kilos of MHRB have killed many coffee grinders. I have only smoked spice, no oral doses. I have made ghetto-dmt too by leaving the naphtha on the lye too long - It's a mistake to tell people about - ! So ... my analogy is you can drive a 5-speed car by NOT using the clutch - You can aim for the sweet spot between every gear and try to avoid grinding the gears. But 'proper procedure' is to use the clutch every time, and to NOT grind the gears... So maybe some folks can only drive automatics..? Well I believe the proper procdure should still be learned or your driving might end up being a hazard ... in that sharp, 5-speed sports car of responsibility you have to cope with !...! That's all .. I think I've said my bit ... Be safe and informed everyone !
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Ehhhh fuck dude this shit doesn't matter FYI: I don't know how much shellite differs to naptha, but last night i did everything i could to try to get some NaOH to dissolve in shellite, no good, no way. even a heat bath at 80 degrees (shellite is now boiling) didn't pickup ANY lye at all (pH tested it) if i put a pinch of lye into 500mL of water the pH raises enough to be detected, here i tried a teaspoon of lye in 15mL shellite, no change look at the tek i put together (ignore the fact that i do an acid cook) i am now 95% sure that that spice pictured is in fact as pure as it looks as far as appearance goes, i've seen many many batches of pure md--, cocaine, speed etc.. the ONLY powder i have seen that is comparable in appearance to my spice (as far as quality is concerned) was 2CB straight from an RC company and as i said, i'm 95% sure that my spice has no NaOH in it whatsoever (separations were done very well) - so i'd say it's dmt and if anything else nmt but that'd be it and i guarantee you i could have got the same results without the initial acid cook, i could have gone straight to base and extract the dmt from those initial pulls don't quote my 2% yield, i only mention that to illustrate the point that whether you are yielding 0.5% or 2%, working a kilo of bark with a litre of shellite is more than enough [b:211aec7c9b]No one has yet answered my question; which ture chemist would ever skip the acid extraction stage, and for what reason. I am simply asking and telling what I know, albeit a little excitedly ....[/b:211aec7c9b] so what exactly do you mean? the initial cook in acid and then basify, pull with shellite, evap and clean or whatever? or do you mean an acid step at any point in the process? - such as put bark + base + water -> extract with shellite, and then acidify and follow on to isolate dmt (as done in the tek i post above) if you're material doesn't contain any shit that will come across with dmt (as supposably the case is with MHRB) then why would you do an acid cook? you're only going to reduce your yield by adding an extra step (and hence extra losses as you can't be 100% about anything) What about a straight to base MHRB followed by freeze precipitation and slow recrystallisation? It's not the approach i'd take but hey, i'm no [i:211aec7c9b]real chemist[/i:211aec7c9b] so.. well, so what? a/b's are basic organic chem and you don't need to study any chemistry to get the gist of what you're doing - and get the gist to a point where you can understand what you're doing - not just ghetto cookup following wetdreams posts not knowing what the fuck you're doing basically there is no such thing as 'proper procedure' etc.. as long as you are working with the right pH values, temps, and solvents then you're going to be able to do it, dmt is in the plant, get it out, that simple there is no right or wrong way to do it personally i find extractions fun so i enjoy the back and forth double a/b and i like to see that spice so clean but there is nothing wrong with ripping everything out of the plant, collecting precipitated dmt and recrystallising to get rid of the impurities as long as the right pH values and temps are used then you're going to get what you want, personal preference as long as it works, and i bet that's what a 'real chemist' would say
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
No shit. That was my point back there telling him to start his own thread. Over a page of that horseshit.... :evil: Eek... (I'm not fighting) wouldn't the first thing a true chemist do be to admit that he has no idea of what his yield would be since he has no idea of the exact alkaloid content of the plant material?
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Read here folks, a few more facts about the "proper procedure" for separating and extracting tryptamines: http://designer-drugs.com/pte/12.162.180.114/dcd/chemistry/equipment/rextal.a-b.basics.html Maybe take a college course in Organic chemistry - become informed and then tell me why would people skip the 'proper procedure' ... !? The reason I think this matters is because ignorance abounds and people will make mistakes, as BAD teks are passed on and on. The lye-bucket method would NEVER be perpetuated by a real organic chemist - do I need to repeat why..?! "proper procedure" applies to many actions - like not smoking when you're at a gas station filling up, or driving while blindfolded ... If anyone tried to read the link I posted here, you'll follow that to take all the dmt out of the MHRB you must first make the "salt" form of dmt - this means you make dmt soluble in water. This means that You use an acid, aqueous extraction first to make all the dmt go invisibly into solution. YOu cannot see the dmt when it is 'dissolved', so it just passes through a filter, and the MHRB-gunk can be reprocessed or thrown out... Lye makes dmt into a "free base" which is insoluble in water. Lye also oxidizes and chemically breaks down dmt, so you don't leave the NaOH to raunch-out on any spice for too long. (30 min max is what I have been told) You use Lye only for making dmt-salt into dmt-freebase - that's it, and it's a quick step ..! What is the logic behind hours or days of torturing teh dmt at pH 13.5..? There is no logic to this ! - There are misinformed 'teks' that say to do so, and I am trying to indicate that it is 'poor logic', risky and unsafe. In the lye-bucket-method, the dmt has fallen out of solution (ie it's a free base), and is all mixed in with the other gunk. No separation is ocurring at pH 13.5; the dmt-freebase is being degraded and lost in the black, gunk. Only when a non-polar solevnt is added will the dmt have some where to go where it is 'safe', and can become soluble. ok .. so now... enough !... I'm bored now with this topic; the high-jacked topic of "proper procedure" for tryptamine extraction... Stay safe everyone !
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
[quote:355c161615="El Ka Bong"]If anyone tried to read the link I posted here, you'll follow that to take all the dmt out of the MHRB you must first make the "salt" form of dmt - this means you make dmt soluble in water. [/quote:355c161615] DMT is [i:355c161615]already[/i:355c161615] in salt form in MHRB. You KNOW that, right? Because you're a TRUE chemist?
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
I thought my opinions didn't obscure the facts... so let me ramble on some more... These are just facts, ... I am not a chemist, but from having once been one, I know enough to ask what people 'think' they are doing... especially when it makes no sense to throw out 50% of your yeild and torture dmt-freebase with pH 13.5 ... So Norman, what you say is true for many alkaloids not just dmt. This is the form they have inside the plant tissue. But when dmt-salt in ground up MHRB lands in any water with a pH above 4.0, much of the dmt-salt will deprotonate, and become insoluble dmt-freebase, and mix with the rest of the grunge that won't dissolve. This means that at a ridiculous pH of 13.5, you're NOT getting all the dmt out of the bark, and what does come out is INsoluble, and sinks down into the grunge of the lye-bucket.... Still sticking with "facts" of organic chemistry.... To be "Dissolved" is a powerful phenomenon - any molecule dissolved in water becomes invisibly transported around with a 'protective layer' of oriented-water-molecules - sometimes referred to as the "hydration sphere". The hydration sphere of a molecule dissolved in H2O is huge if the molecule has a bigger charge (of +/- 2 or 3 vs a charge of +/- 1 ), and this state offers 'protection' to each molecule of precious spice. DMT-salt has a +1 charge that polarizes the molecule of spice. In acid all dmt is protected by being "dissolved" in water ... precious, magical water ! MHRB soaked in lye makes insoluble dmt-freebase, and a pH of Above 4.0 WILL NOT pull ALL THE DMT into solution (caps are for emphasis .. I'm not yelling ..!) ... A pH of 2 will chew up all the MHRB by 'chemically' grinding every shred of bark used. Nothing in dried plant-tissue can survive a soak in pH 2 water; cellulose, proteins, and all tissues and macro-molecules bust open. Eventually, soaking MHRB in water with a pH of 13.5, will also chemically chew through every shred of plant tissue, but it ALSO renders dmt insoluble, it oxidizes dmt and makes it 'suffer' as it lies around INSOLUBLE, in a black grunge. Acid-extraction FIRST does the job of chemically grinding teh bark, and offers a 'safe' soluble state for the dmt to take - to become dmt-salt and be "soluble" ! So I suspect that "Real" organic chemists say that to maximize yeild, and optimize purity of all alkaloids you're after, you first solubilize each molecule you're after. Then you selectively 'pull' each one out into a non-polar solvent. That is what I was hoping some one else here 'knew' as fact ... that's all ... YOu solubilize first, then you selectively extract each alkaloid... just like we are hearing about here regarding Yuremamine ... Can you get Yuremamine from aqueous pH13.5 ..? ... I bet not ! I sure go on about this, eh..!? ... I must be 'getting something off my chest' ... .. so .. ramble on, fellow kitchen chemists ... being safe and all ... !@~
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Hey El Ka Bong! Why don't you: 1. Try the straight to base tek before you criticize it. and 2. Start you own extraction thread? I'm not commanding you to do it I'm just curious why you don't.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
yes, a separate thread ... would have been a way to go.. but I've spent myself now .. and answered myself now .. etc etc ... Maybe in a month it'll charge up again, and I'll have to rant again about 'proper procedure' ... A few more threads about "why does dmt hurt" ... and numb-faced tripping etc etc and the parent in me has to ask - wtf are you all doing...!? And just to answer the question posed to me; for all the 'chemistry' reasons I could come up with, answering myself mostly, I would never ever bother wasting my MHRB on an ass-backwards, low-yeilding lye-bucket-tek. I know you can get pure 'blades' or clear 'shards' of dmt-freebase from a lye-bucket method, but that would be only 50% the yeild I could get doing it correctly. And so should all of you, by now... no..!?
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Offended by information..? Offended by opinon..? jeebus ... don't start a thread about a poor tek then ! This is a thread in which to discuss our Hyperspace hobbies... specifically about extractin teks and their value. That is what I am contributing towards, like it or not... Using 0.001 g scale, the SWIM I know gets 0.71% as a bare minimum yeild from MHRB. SWIM has exceeded 0.9% always when selecting the purplest root bark.... white rosettes of 2 -4 mm long crystals like we've seen, blades ... shards of uber pure spice growing liek flowers in a miniature octopusses garden, in a pyrex baking tray. Amazing; I wish I could post photos... ! .. but I'm not boasting, for Swim....!
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Back
Top Bottom