New people, new style: Barry Cooper.

[Jees]

My personal main condition (for group works) is that the group 'tunes in' at the deep and come down. If that happens then the individual reasons to attend fade for me.

Mexico, hipsters, eye candy, etc etc, actually I care not yet I care more about how the space makers/holders have the energetic authority (talent) to set out a path when the tryptamines boink, to steer the group ship in the waters. If they can, people tune in more easy and add to it.

I know for sure traditional is no guarantee, nor smaller groups are, seen it all. I welcome people trying differently, so that not the format (traditional vs pop-modern) but the talent of the space makers itself becomes key. As I read that site, BC is not very convincing.

I hate it that a person is trying differently at last, but compromising group success due the way of doing it. Traditional has hundreds of years to fine tune itself, and even then it doesn't always work, so maybe the modern formats should be given some respite and room to fail to learn from too. I hope BC initiative surprisingly comes out fine.

 

[tseuq]

Traditional has hundreds of years to fine tune itself, and even then it doesn't always work, so maybe the modern formats should be given some respite and room to fail to learn from too.

I hope BC initiative surprisingly comes out fine.

Whatever happens, itll be interesting to see the outcome.

Boom, tseuq

 

[null24]

I feel that perhaps ayahuasca is emerging from the jungle into the consciousness of Westerners so as to become accessible to an entire new population that needs it for different purposes than the traditional applications.

I have found it interesting that the ancestors of often the very same people that first came there from Europe to take the land and rape and pillage the people have come back looking not to repay the debt but rather for relief from the psycho-spiritual ennui and the conditions that result from living in a disconnected material culture passed down to us from our forbears, and we are welcomed to it. That, in a nutshell, to me is the message of the entheogen; that's what it's all about.

I also feel that these conditions that many of us suffer are alien to the indigenous, tribal cultures that are far more connected to the earth rather than the world and therefore perhaps new traditions using the same medicine should be developed for Westerners to take advantage of.

I have not traveled to Peru nor engaged in an ayahuasca ceremony in any kind of setting, but feel that there is a certain level of disingenuousness involved on both sides. I can get very little from taking part in a ritual that i have no connection with and do not feel that it would be entirely "honest" for me to attempt to do so.

For these reasons, i would love to see new approaches to delivering what has been proven to be a very effective medicine to be used as an adjunct in a regimen designed to work towards a state of wholeness and integrated health, new practices using traditional medicines. I'm sure there are those who are doing just this, and are doing so with integrity, however the majority of those who are visibily doing so seem to lack any real vision and are motivated by greed and power.

Offering these things as a new way to party is one thing, and I'd be far less offended if someone began offering just such a thing than i am with unqualified people overlooking or ignoring the seriousness of addiction or PTSD who claim to be able to heal them using potentially dangerous drugs.

My two cents.

 

[acacian]

I think there is a problem with the perception (or rather claimed perception) of psychedelics in general and ayahuasca in particular in popular culture (or "Western" pop culture), that this Barry Cooper thing illustrates quite well.
It's a problem of confusion;

Are you taking ayahuasca for "self development" (what we old fogies would call "for fun" ) ?

Are you taking it because you are fed up, stressed out, and this is an experience that will allow you to unload, unburden yourself?

Do you have other psychological reasons for taking it? i.e. addiction or PTSD?

Are you taking it because you have a medical condition diagnosable by allopathic medicine? e.g. a degenerative neurological disorder, etc.

Do you need some kind of cultural precedent to make the ingestion of this psychedelic okay for you?

I presume the majority of Euro-American people who take ayahuasca do it for the first reason. I don't believe the thousands of young people who pass through the eco-ayahuasca tourism circuit in South America every year, or those who attend "ceremonies" at home, usually suffer from very much more than the sort of cultural ennui that effects all of us (and is in reality more a blessing than a curse).

And yet, how often do these people, or indeed how often in this thread, is ayahuasca referred to as "medicine".
Ayahuasca; This is not a drug, it is a medicine.
Cannabis, not a drug, but a medicine.
This pint of stout? Medicina.
This chip butty? Medicine my friend! Solo por curar!


I'm not saying ayahuasca not very valuable as a medicine, it clearly is. I'm saying that it would be much better for everybody if we were quite clear about when and how it is being used as medicine, and when it is being used for self development, or -other-.

So, what's my point? Hmmm. I think my point is that the real problem is that of people seeking treatment for serious ailments being lumped together with people with, shall we say somewhat trivial ailments, but the latter are also insisting on "medicine".

I suppose these are quite multifaceted medicines though ... sickness takes many forms. And the stresses of society I think take their toll on people.. enough so for them to feel that they need the aid of these experiences. Generally as a rule of thumb I'd say one should be clear on why they are doing it.. but at the same time, sometimes people get confused and its these experiences that can potentially bring them out of that confusion.. I know I've had this experience before. Personally I haven't worked with ayahuasca but can say of acacia extracts that on a number of occasions, they have lifted a "fog" that I wasn't quite privy to at the time..

 

[Jees]

Fog lifting, love that expression :thumb_up:

.

Btw:

...The real “magic” is a chemical compound called dimethyltryptamine (DMT) that comes from the extract of a plant called Mimosa Tenuiflora. The active ingredient in the extract is DMT...

There's no true ayahuasca in the specialized ayahuasca healing retreat. :twisted:

 

[ijahdan]

I had a look at some of his youtube videos. His early stuff about avoiding the police is quite good, as it draws from his experience in the dea. He could probably claim quite reasonably to be an expert in not getting busted, but then he went on to set himself up as an expert on drugs and now specifically ayahuasca and ibogaine.

Check out his vid Beware of Shamans.

Its a fair point that not all traditional cultural traditions are relevant or useful to a westerner, and not all 'shamans' have good intentions, but Barry seems to view all indigenous practices, Africans playing drums during iboga ceremonies for example as bad or even dangerous. 'Come and take ayahuasca with me instead, safely..' he says.

Some of his replies in the comments section are interesting;

'Ayuasca (sic) is DMT'
'A large amount is released at the time of death'
'The effects of ayuasca can be explained by science and quantum physics'

Got to check out his videos about quantum physics next...

 

[Swayambhu]

I suppose these are quite multifaceted medicines though ... sickness takes many forms. And the stresses of society I think take their toll on people.. enough so for them to feel that they need the aid of these experiences. Generally as a rule of thumb I'd say one should be clear on why they are doing it.. but at the same time, sometimes people get confused and its these experiences that can potentially bring them out of that confusion.. I know I've had this experience before. Personally I haven't worked with ayahuasca but can say of acacia extracts that on a number of occasions, they have lifted a "fog" that I wasn't quite privy to at the time..

Sickness does indeed take many forms, but those forms are not necessarily equivalent or equally necessarily treated with something which carries the title of "medicine".

 

[Jees]

I feel very attracted for the idea/principal of a natural course, bio chemical wise, that takes place no matter how. A trust in a kind of bodily intelligence that autonomously co-works with the molecules, and which results surpasses any format package of how exactly one does ceremony. Yet it is ambiguous because I evenly believe in the influences of set/setting.
I also believe (traditional) shamanism has tailored some of such 'natural success' into self righteousness. But again ambiguous as I also believe that in some cases the set/setting was more contribution than the 'medicine' itself.

Sometimes I think intention is mandatory and on other occasions as if it doesn't matter at all once you are 'there'.

Sometimes I think the nature of the reason-to-ceremony is very determinate (eg. stress vs a mere physical pathology) and other times I think we better not take our 'problem(s)' with us into the realm, but rather bring the realm down to earth (by doing ceremony) and then let us simply marinate in that vibe no matter the specification of your issue at hand. Like if the body knows better than the brain how to process.

I have a lot of contradicting feelings when it comes to these things, and have come to embrace the potential dualities as such without trying to further unwind these Gordian knots.

 

[obliguhl]

I do hope he succeed as it would prove the medicines to be functional outside traditional culture too

I meant he's doing it for the wrong reasons, wealth and fame, personal power. Powerful psychedelic experiences tend to erode the ego and all this kind of stuff which stems from it

Psychedelics have produced megalomaniac en masse, Timothy Leary being the most prominent one. Speaking about so called "traditional cultures" - the shuar for instance, have embedded ayahuasca in their culture. How have they used it? For healing, but ...also a lot for warfare. They are the people who were known to kill members of other tribes to collect their souls and shrink their heads. A ton of people want to be shamans because they are well respected and powerful with often tremendous material wealth. There was also a flourishing trade of magic darts...shamans would travel great distances to aquire them.

Have you purposely tried to yield power with psychedelics?
I'd assume that many people experience these love trips because that is what they want.
Or need, or both.

 

[Ufostrahlen]

'A large amount is released at the time of death'
'The effects of ayuasca can be explained by science and quantum physics'

Got to check out his videos about quantum physics next...

Haha, true.

If you put BC into a box, you can't be sure whether he's a quantum physicist or a shaman, until you look. But his message is right: don't trust people, who are in for the money and don't have a formal education on the subject.

 

[○]

'Ayuasca (sic) is DMT'
'A large amount is released at the time of death'
'The effects of ayuasca can be explained by science and quantum physics'

Got to check out his videos about quantum physics next...

I was going to give some of his videos a shot, or even look into him more [other than what I know of his past], but after reading what I quoted up above... ahhh...idk

:lol:

 

[Jees]

...Have you purposely tried to yield power with psychedelics?...

In a very friendly way yes. But the word 'power' can mean a lot of things, that makes the question somewhat non specific. If you mean greed or manipulating people for breakfast: no.

.

I agree there will be a fitting audience as there always is, everybody happy.
But had to think about what null24 said about people in real need of professional help and getting attracted to

...We treat addictions, alcoholism, alcohol cravings, depression, PTSD and other pesky disorders...

Can he deliver? I hope very much that he does. Media is rubbing hands already. Maybe I need a treatment against negative thinking :?

 

[ijahdan]

Have you purposely tried to yield power with psychedelics?
I'd assume that many people experience these love trips because that is what they want.
Or need, or both.

I am always reminded of the immense power of the universe while tripping, and the feeling that being a part of it, I could do all sorts of things, anything is possible.

Once, on mescaline, I felt like I had transformed into an ancient celtic warrior. My reflection in the mirror looked the part too, face paint, the lot. I started speaking what sounded like incantations, strange, guttural sounds. I was able to manifest visuals through these sounds, and felt like I was channelling a lot of energy, which got progressively stronger until I got scared and made myself snap out of it. Started to feel a bit dark tbh, like I might be awaking some kind of demons.

Definitely understand how some of these Amazonians can use ayahuasca to prepare for war now.

On the other hand, this feeling of channelling a great power didnt inspire me to set up a tacky, commercial healing ceremony in a luxury hotel.

 

[hug46]

Seriously , this guy has made a living from busting people, he's made a living telling people how not to get busted and now he is making a living by giving drugs to people. He appears to me to be an opportunistic narcissist. Whether this can help to benefit or detract from sharing a quality tripping experience is moot. As has been said before, we are not all looking for the same outcome when tripping (i am one of the aforementioned old fogeys that does it for fun).

Here is a list of people with (supposed) narcissist traits from history...
Napoleon
Henry the eighth
Mahatma Ghandi
Franklin D. Roosevelt
Muammar Qaddafi
Adolf Hitler
Pol Pot
Stalin
Most dictators

I wonder who would be the most fun to trip with out of Ghandi and Pol Pot. Hitler has an image as a very shouty person and has been caricatured that way over the years, therefore if i was tripping with Hitler i may find the experience to be very amusing. I remember a mate and myself were tripping on mushrooms and decided to boil some more up in my mum's kitchen and she came in, saw what we were up to and started shouting at us. Which made us laugh. Which made her shout more. Which made us laugh more. And so, if Hitler really was the stress merchant that history has made him out to be, the resulting trip with him could result in a joyful ourobouros type infinite circle of shouting and laughter.

 

[Jees]

Picked this intel up at the ayahuasca forum, Barry Cooper ditches the record attempt:

I resigned from the ceremony. I was uncomfortable with the way some were attacking it. But would love to tell you the story. I'm currently treating addicts with Ibogaine and doing Ayu ceremonies In Puerto Vallarta, Mexico. I offer the medicines in a non traditional way that is based on science instead of taboo, fears and wrong information.

After pissing on anything shamanic he now continues like this:

Guided by a Columbian shaman and set on a private beach just a short bus ride from the hotel, Ayahuascapulco will be an overnight journey into the eternal library of your mind.

A shaman?