Nicotine Addiction

[Nik]

Why don't you smoke some clover cigarettes?

 

[Parshvik Chintan]

Why don't you smoke some clover cigarettes?

Smoking Cigarettes: A Prime Risk Factor for Heart Palpitations | Livestrong.com
Clove cigarettes. The basis for concern regarding health effects.

because that isn't an improvement.

 

[NamahsNaicigam]

Why don't you smoke some clover cigarettes?

Smoking Cigarettes: A Prime Risk Factor for Heart Palpitations | Livestrong.com
Clove cigarettes. The basis for concern regarding health effects.

because that isn't an improvement.

Neither is Hooka

 

[embracethevoid]

Just a question: what prompts people to start smoking in the first place?
Is there a buzz or high associated with nicotine? I've tried cigarettes but found them to be mostly gross.

I've asked that to my smoker friends and none of them seem to know. They just all say that they just sort of started doing it for no reason, and now they can't quit.

No 'mind-altering' effects at all.

It is an entheogen and a pretty powerful one at that IME.

This does not seem to happen for everyone. When I used to smoke I would both chain-smoke like a fiend but also I would specifically ritualise certain smokes. I'd use them to induce intense euphoria and mystical connection.

In such a sense it was like smoking spice but staying on this side of the veil.

However smoking technique is extremely important for this effect. You have to use hand-rolled ciggies preferably additive free. They have to be rolled neither tight nor too loose: too tight and you won't be able to pull in fast enough to do it. Too loose and you won't get any smoke worth talking about. It must be at that sweet spot where it feels like you could blast the whole thing in one puff. Then you pretty much light it, say your prayers, meditate.

Focus the mind one-pointedly on the samadhi state, breathe in. Use the MAOI and neurotransmitter rush entirely towards total gratitude & catharsis. By modulating your breathing, you can amplify this magnificently. Ecstatic bliss is the cusp of being breathlessly knocked out. I have had stronger acute euphoria from smokes than from crack, that's saying something. You get the same effect from N2O but it's not anywhere near on the same level as a good smoke. Pranayamas do this over a longer period, speaking of which. Breathing is absolutely essential. Any mistiming in your breath will dissolve the euphoria and leave you with a boring old headrush and wooziness.

Keep in mind that some people get no mind-altering effects from LSD. They take it to "get fucked up", then when they return they continue being the same old jerk off assholes they always chose to be. Their minds left unaltered. Same principle here. Entheogens take two to tango.

I am not surprised that mapacho is the shaman's tool of choice.

 

[Alex101]

Edit: I feel terribly stupid for not noticing you mentioned the Easyway system in your OP, I have a hard time waking up today... sorry. Also sorry to hear it didn't work for you.

No problem buddy. Actually it did work, for 3 weeks but i didn't totally understand it or follow the instructions. I wasn't the clearest minded at the time to truly take it on and ever since, its been tremendously hard to stop longest being 6 days.

I made a 2 day attempt recently, was all perfectly swell except a bed of stress came up and i dumbingly, since i am not a morning person, went off impulse. @embracethevoid: Your talk on the Amygdala really helped..i didn't detect it but i was trying to be constantly aware of it, it was almost like a continious meditation and the feelings didn't really arise. When it did, it was easy to handle. I get a huge feeling in my chest, hard to describe but it became pleasureable to face.

Tonight i am planning the escape again but i feel i have truly got it this time with the mental preperation. Thanks again all, in a week i hope i can come back to say I am truly a happy non smoker.

 

[SpartanII]

Try e-cigarettes!

I second this ^^^,

I third this.

Fourth. My wife and I were able to quit by using an E Cig. :thumb_up:

 

[embracethevoid]

[cropped for brevity]
@Embracethevoid: Your talk on the Amygdala really helped..i didn't detect it but i was trying to be constantly aware of it, it was almost like a continious meditation and the feelings didn't really arise. When it did, it was easy to handle. I get a huge feeling in my chest, hard to describe but it became pleasureable to face.

Tonight i am planning the escape again but i feel i have truly got it this time with the mental preperation. Thanks again all, in a week i hope i can come back to say I am truly a happy non smoker.

I got a visual for you actually

Ever fired one of these at your skin? It's a piezo igniter from any clicky button type lighter. The exact sensation of that spark against your skin is what you're looking for, but it originates in your brain and of course it's at a much lower power.


Imagine there is a gaseous essence in your brain. This gas represents a propensity/potential towards smoking; e.g. withdrawal, being around smokers, being drunk, seeing a cigarette, etc. The gas is floating around in your head then the amygdala sparks like one of those piezo sparkers, and fwoooosh. It goes up in flames. When it goes up in flames, there is the rapid cascade of thoughts & emotions & blood flows resulting in that frantic look for your smokes and the feeling of eagerly naughty anticipation lurking around like a little gremlin in the back of your mind.


The process of this gas igniting results in your hand moving to a lighter and sparking up a cigarette, then when you take that sweet craving satisfying hit, the gas is metaphorically fully combusted. It's less metaphorical than you might think as the literal process of oxidation (aka fire) in the brain is the means by which the entire body operates; the physical correlate to this metaphorical gas would actually be quite easily defined as the set of all neural movements in the brain's phase space that lead to the intake of nicotine.



So you have to do two things. Reduce the levels of smoking gas in the brain = stay away from smoking cures; and avoid igniting or suppress ignition - keep that igniter away from the gas and let it spark against something that insulates aka an environment that is set up to make smoking as impossible as is feasible.


If you smoke, don't make a big deal out of it; just treat it as a minor setback. As long as the captain is steering full speed ahead, little waves that push the boat backwards and slow it down do not mean much at all. It's only when the captain thinks "ok, these little waves are too much" then turns around yielding to these tiny waves that it becomes a big deal. Self-forgiveness & acceptance is key. You smoked not because you're a miserable pathetic failure, but because you're addicted to cigarettes and that's what happens.

One key point: do not focus on 'Notsmoking'. You don't ever -smoke but you do actually +breathe, +walk, +poop. When you call up the mental thought 'Notsmoke' that activates the craving circuit in near enough exactly the same fashion as seeing a picture of a cigarette. Instead keep your mind busy with activities that do not point towards a cigarette break; peaceful stress-free activities that you can get completely lost in and forget that you even are a smoker at all.

See that event horizon? Stay away from it.

 

[The Electric Hippy]

Easy Way by Allan Carr is the only method with a high % rate of success. I'm on day 11 right now. I feel fantastic. I have way more energy and I don't have to spend that extra $30.00 a week on cigarettes anymore. I highly recommend either buying or torrenting the book.

Here are some things to remember:

1) Cigarettes do not help you. At all. In any way whatsoever. They don't relieve stress. They don't calm you.
They don't help you deal with stressful situations. The only benefit you get from smoking a cigarette is the relief from craving one.

2) Nicotine addiction is slavery, as is every other addiction on the planet. Just as the heroin addict must plunge the needle into their vein, so too must a smoker inhale to get the relief. It makes you feel awkward in the precense of non smokers. It leaves a raw feeling in your throat when you chain smoke at parties. It's a constant worry; do I have enough cigarettes? Do I need to get more? Do I need 2 packs for the party in case I need to supply someone else's habit? You don't need these concerns. Life is hard enough as it is.

3) People like to say "Well, something is gonna get you in the end, so you might as well smoke". They are correct; we all have to face our inevitable demise. But if it's going to happen anyways, why spend money to do so? Dying of old age is free; cancer + a lifetime of smoking is expensive.

4) This is the big one; if you remember anything I've typed, remember this: Nicotine Replacement Therapy (NRT; E-cigs, gum, patches, etc.) DOES NOT WORK. Anyone who quits using NRT doesn't quit because of it, they quit in spite of it. Think about it; if you go in to rehab for drug use, do they give you more of the drug you are addicted to? Of course not. Why? Because that's stupid. You can't cure an alcoholic by giving him more alcohol. You can't cure a heroin addict by giving him more heroin. So why should giving a nicotine addict more nicotine work any differently? It doesn't. The only thing NRT does is prolong the addiction; switch to e-cigs, and you've basically done the same thing as the heroin addict who decides to eat Oxycontin instead of shoot up heroin. He's still an addict. Is eating an Oxy less damaging than injecting heroine? Sure, but that doesn't solve the problem of the addiction.

5) Cold turkey is the easiest method. And it doesn't have to be hard; it's only hard when you feel like you're making a sacrifice. YOU AREN'T SACRIFICING ANYTHING! Cigarettes rob you of your health and money, and leave nothing in return. You don't need them. I promise you, the feeling of being free of nicotine addiction makes quitting easy, and even enjoyable.


I really hope you check out the book, and if you ever need someone for support, don't be afraid to PM me. Best of luck to you.

Peace and Love,

Electric

 

[SpartanII]

Nicotine Replacement Therapy (NRT; E-cigs, gum, patches, etc.) DOES NOT WORK. Anyone who quits using NRT doesn't quit because of it, they quit in spite of it. Think about it; if you go in to rehab for drug use, do they give you more of the drug you are addicted to? Of course not. Why? Because that's stupid. You can't cure an alcoholic by giving him more alcohol. You can't cure a heroin addict by giving him more heroin. So why should giving a nicotine addict more nicotine work any differently? It doesn't.

Like I said, E-cig worked for my wife and I and apparently several others in this thread.

I hear what you're saying, but I think you might be missing a point- the idea is to tapper down the addictive drug so that when you do "jump off" it makes it easier, whether it's nicotine for a smoker (E-cigs have different dosages available) or methadone for the heroin addict.

 

[DeDao]

There is only one way to do it IMO and IME...
You HAVE to WANT to do it...If you want it ...it is easy as pie.

This is the only post you have to read.

 

[The Electric Hippy]

Nicotine Replacement Therapy (NRT; E-cigs, gum, patches, etc.) DOES NOT WORK. Anyone who quits using NRT doesn't quit because of it, they quit in spite of it. Think about it; if you go in to rehab for drug use, do they give you more of the drug you are addicted to? Of course not. Why? Because that's stupid. You can't cure an alcoholic by giving him more alcohol. You can't cure a heroin addict by giving him more heroin. So why should giving a nicotine addict more nicotine work any differently? It doesn't.

Like I said, E-cig worked for my wife and I and apparently several others in this thread.

I hear what you're saying, but I think you might be missing a point- the idea is to tapper down the addictive drug so that when you do "jump off" it makes it easier, whether it's nicotine for a smoker (E-cigs have different dosages available) or methadone for the heroin addict.

The reason methadone works for heroin addicts and NRT does not work for nicotine addicts is because the nature of opiate withdrawl. It is brutal, and possibly lethal. Nicotine withdrawl is an empty, almost hungry feeling. Uncomfortable, yes, but no where near the ordeal that heroin/painkillers can be. If it were a kinder world, addicts of DT drugs (alcohol, opiates, etc.) would not need other supplements. Unfortunately, opiate withdrawl can kill, so it is doomed to use a replacement therapy of some sort.

You are correct when you say some people can quit with NRT. Indeed, they can. My argument is that it makes it more difficult to kick the habit, because you are prolonging the addiction in favor of tackling one problem at a time. This is the idea you're saying that I missed. In theory, it sounds good and practical. However, it does not work, for the reasons I have mentioned.

You also have to consider that most people who use NRT either continue to use it or bounce back and forth between it and regular tobacco. If you are using the e-cig instead of cigarettes, you haven't quit, you've swapped. You are still spending money on a drug that does nothing for you and keeps you enslaved. You are still a nicotine addict.

If you and the wife were able to use NRT to quit, and don't continue to ingest nicotine, then I congradulate you, and wish you the best. I don't wish to rain on anyone's parade for quitting, I just believe NRT to be more difficult (and costly) than cold turkey.

Peace and Love,

Electric

 

[SpartanII]

The reason methadone works for heroin addicts and NRT does not work for nicotine addicts is because the nature of opiate withdrawl. It is brutal, and possibly lethal. Nicotine withdrawl is an empty, almost hungry feeling. Uncomfortable, yes, but no where near the ordeal that heroin/painkillers can be. If it were a kinder world, addicts of DT drugs (alcohol, opiates, etc.) would not need other supplements. Unfortunately, opiate withdrawl can kill, so it is doomed to use a replacement therapy of some sort.

You definitively state several times that NTR/E-cigs does not work, but then later say that it can work. I see your point though.

Also, opiate withdrawal is usually over-hyped by the media and movies. Being an ex-heroin IV user, I've been through the withdrawal process many times. It was pretty brutal, but never even close to life-threatening. However, for users who have medical conditions, health problems, combine opiates with other drugs, or are elderly, I could see how it could possibly be lethal.

As for the rest of your post, I think we're pretty much on the same page.:thumb_up:

EDIT..

I think I see where my misunderstanding was. I'm talking about using e-cigs to tapper off nicotine and quit., you were referring to swapping one addiction for another, right?

 

[dio]

I am a big fan of nicotine.

I don't mean to insight some huge controversy here, but go to google and type in 'nicotine health benefits'.

Nicotine as a purely evil substance is not really true.

Cigarrete SMOKE is highly carcinogenic and leads to many issue. However just nicotine, albeit addictive, is not so evil. I actually find caffeine to be far more addictive than nicotine, and I am addicted to caffeine like crazy.

I feel nicotine helps me in alot of ways, I have come to be symbiotic with it, how I am with caffeine.

However I do not smoke cigarettes, and I am not a chain smoker, I smoke once a day. Typically I will smoke a hookah. Which despite some scrupulous claims concerning hookah research in the past, hookah is not as bad as cigarettes. Because hookahs use a charcoal and heat tobacco, not burn it, resulting in what is essentially an all analog non-electric vaporizer. Hookahs are tobacco vaporizers.

I am thinking about investing in a nice e-cigarette and switching to WTA ( Whole Tobacco Alkaloid ) extract. Which is e-cigarette liquid, but with a full spectrum extract of tobacco in it, not just nicotine. I would suggest you avoid e-cigs that have just pure nicotine. The effect of smoking tobacco does not come from just nicotine, there is a small cocktail of psyhoactives in tobacco that work better in combination, which WTA extract has all the psychoactives (supposedly, I've not thorughly investigated it yet, am just interested).

If you feel like nicotine is supportive of you in some way, I wouldn't beat yourself up about it.

But seriously, don't be a chain smoker. Try to make it a nightly 'calm down' ritual, and smoke a hookah or an e-cig. Don't inhale burning plant matter.

 

[The Electric Hippy]

The reason methadone works for heroin addicts and NRT does not work for nicotine addicts is because the nature of opiate withdrawl. It is brutal, and possibly lethal. Nicotine withdrawl is an empty, almost hungry feeling. Uncomfortable, yes, but no where near the ordeal that heroin/painkillers can be. If it were a kinder world, addicts of DT drugs (alcohol, opiates, etc.) would not need other supplements. Unfortunately, opiate withdrawl can kill, so it is doomed to use a replacement therapy of some sort.

You definitively state several times that NTR/E-cigs does not work, but then later say that it can work. I see your point though.

Also, opiate withdrawal is usually over-hyped by the media and movies. Being an ex-heroin IV user, I've been through the withdrawal process many times. It was pretty brutal, but never even close to life-threatening. However, for users who have medical conditions, health problems, combine opiates with other drugs, or are elderly, I could see how it could possibly be lethal.

As for the rest of your post, I think we're pretty much on the same page.:thumb_up:

In heavy users, the withdrawl process can send the body into shock, causing seizures and death. While not common, it is still justification enough to not go cold turkey on opiates, at least if you're a heavy user.

I'm not sure where I flipped flopped on my position of NRT not working. Perhaps I was not clear enough in articulating my definition of not working:

When I say that E-cigs do not work, I'm not saying it is impossible to find success with them, only that most people do not have what it takes to use that method of quitting. I've seen this case many times with my customers; they come in after years of me selling them normal cigarettes and think to themselves "Oh, I'll go the e-cig route and it will help me quit". But that never happens. What does happen is one of 3 outcomes; they

1) use the e-cig to cut down on the amount of normal cigarettes they smoke
2) use it only to get nicotine in places where they can't smoke
3) it becomes a novel toy that is soon forgotten (this was my problem)

It is very heartbreaking to hear these people come in and be proud of themselves when they boast:

Customer: "I've done it; I've quit smoking!"
Me: "Oh yeah? Good for you dude! When was your last cigarette?"
Customer: "3 days ago! I'm on the e-cig full on now"

Again, unless you quit using nicotine entirely, then you haven't quit, you've swapped. It's like trading the heroin for Oxycontin; you're still an addict. That is NRT's biggest failure; it propagates and even encourages addict behavior to someone who is trying to quit (the e-cig is particularly bad about this)

I work at a gas station, and I've seen a lot of both camps: NRT and cold turkey, and based on my experience, more people have success quitting when they just drop cigarettes like a bad habit. Can NRT work? Yes, but it's not for most people IME. Your mileage, of course, may vary.

Peace and Love,

Electric

EDIT..

I think I see where my misunderstanding was. I'm talking about using e-cigs to tapper off nicotine and quit., you were referring to swapping one addiction for another, right?

In a way, yes. Most people set out with the intention of tapering off, but it soon becomes an addiction all in its own. They use NRT to get off cigarettes but still smoke cigarettes, rendering the NRT ineffective. It does work for some people; they can use the e-cig/patch/gum for a set amount of time and then never pick up nicotine in any form again. But those cases, IME, are very, very uncommon.