No ego death or ego dissolution on (real) LSD

[La Honda]

Hello !

I have a question for you. I have tested (liquid) LSD, at relatively high dose since I'm quite resistant to it (800-1200ug) but while the experiences were intense it was not quite close to anything related to ego death, which I experienced on N,N-DMT or even ketamine, in wildly different way though. I always test my things so I'm quite sure about what it was. What's interesting is that at these doses for me, the experience is absolutely mystical and life changing, it's a teaching in the old meaning of this word. BUT my ego is a bastard, resisting and holding on for dear life. My brother, on the same stack, was obliterated at 400ug. At the doses I take, it feels like a mystic journey, and it's beautiful. Now I wonder if you guys can relate to such a gap in term of experience.

 

[Mimosaquero]

ive taken up 700ug of lsd and never experienced ego death. i only get ego death on tryptamines like ayahuasca and psilocybin.

 

[universecannon]

It's never a guarenteed thing. I took a ten strip once and while it was intense and mystical I couldn't fully let go because of how stimulating and intense it was. Combining it with cannabis can help me, or it may spiral it into paranoia or delusions, so YMMV there. Not to mention the individual variation in response to different substances.

I prefer 100ug of quality stuff, with low doses of changa on top. Doing that in nature, or near a large amethyst, or while eye gazing always does the trick for me once I relax. Acoustics and fluid movement/yoga helps me a lot as well. Though I might define ego death differently than some. I think in modern times people have confused it pretty thoroughly.

 

[La Honda]

LSD is LSD, it's always quality stuff IF it is LSD. Unfortunately up to 200ug, LSD has almost no effects on me ah.

How do you define ego death ? I define it as it was understood by Grof and the counter-cultures back in the days. Grof helps tying it to precise steps, through identified peri-natal structures, death and rebirth. The later comes more than often with awe and a profound feeling of unity that has a lot of similarities with what is elsewhere described by non duality.

I have no idea about how people drift in modern days.

 

[northape]

True ego death is what Buddha, Jesus, and other sages achieved. What you can expect is temporary ego dissolution. You get it every night in deep sleep, so I don't get what all the fuss is about. 5-MeO-DMT experiences seem to come closest to the real thing, but you inevitably come down anyway. That's why many pioneers from the LSD era went into spirituality. You want to stay in that state, not just visit for a time. I'd say fascination with ego death and breakthroughs is a phase in working with these medicines. After some time, you see other benefits or just move on. It's better to enjoy the ride than constantly think about your goal.

My conclusion is that people focus on the wrong target. Ego death is easy, but being fully aware of it is not. As you pointed out, when it happens, we don't notice and are just left with doubts or concepts. Little by little, we train in recognizing what's happening. The secret is to relax into it and not resist. It's like the first and biggest lesson of psychedelics, which can lead you all the way. Who is experiencing ego death?

Ego is just you, so how can it disappear? It would just mean that you are no more. Some parts of it could go offline, but as long as there is a sense of "I," your ego is far from dead. You cannot kill it yourself either, because it would be you once again doing the killing. Don't mix a temporary opening in the clouds with a clear sky. They are not the same.
Yes, you see the same sky, but that is beside my point. I would totally remove the use of the word "ego." It is just so misleading. Ego is "I," period.

 

[universecannon]

LSD is LSD, it's always quality stuff IF it is LSD. Unfortunately up to 200ug, LSD has almost no effects on me ah.

I used to think this as well, but there is actually quite a bit of info on erowid on how synthesis/purification processes influence how much of the desired LSD stereoisomer forms relative to unwanted isomers and chemical side products. I don't know much about the details so maybe someone with more knowledge can elaborate. But the real question seems to be whether any of these variations in quality are actually noticeable during the experience, which is where opinions understandably vary. I do think inconsistent dosages, set, and setting are a usually bigger factors that influence the experience rather than quality, but there is kits for testing dosage now and even when the dosage is the same, the quality does seem to differ, sometimes significantly IMO.

 

[universecannon]

How do you define ego death ? I define it as it was understood by Grof and the counter-cultures back in the days. Grof helps tying it to precise steps, through identified peri-natal structures, death and rebirth. The later comes more than often with awe and a profound feeling of unity that has a lot of similarities with what is elsewhere described by non duality.

I more or less agree and I think the work of Ian McGilchrist, Adam Levin, Tony Wright and others together paints a pretty clear picture that our dominant sense of self is mediated by the left hemisphere, and these techniques heavily engage the right hemisphere's more dormant capacities such as interacting with "reality" through less filters/conditioning, in other words more directly. I don't really use the term much myself or see it as an end goal on it's own, but I guess I see ego death as a temporary loss of that dominance, or our normal day-to-day self, to some degree. But as northape said, often times people black out and don't remember what even happened while they lost that control. But when we do remember, it seems to involve various degrees of non-duality, oneness, oceanic euphoria, a cosmic sense of self and so on

Where the confusion comes in is where people mistake ego death as a total loss in any awareness or sense of self altogether, but I think that's more because the initial experience can feel that way. But that's not some end goal, and a rebirth of a more cosmic sense of self does seem capable of emerging. Just my loose take on it anyways

 

[doubledog]

It always amazed me but some people are simply resistant to the ego-dissolving effects of LSD.

 

[Jamie01]

It’s the white light. It’s unmistakable when it happens. LSD is more prone to it than many other substances. LSD is THE drug of mystics imo because of these qualities it has. It’s special.

 

[Mimosaquero]

True ego death is what Buddha, Jesus, and other sages achieved. What you can expect is temporary ego dissolution. You get it every night in deep sleep, so I don't get what all the fuss is about. 5-MeO-DMT experiences seem to come closest to the real thing, but you inevitably come down anyway. That's why many pioneers from the LSD era went into spirituality. You want to stay in that state, not just visit for a time. I'd say fascination with ego death and breakthroughs is a phase in working with these medicines. After some time, you see other benefits or just move on. It's better to enjoy the ride than constantly think about your goal.

beautifully said. letting go and allowing the waves to take you where ever it desires is the best approach. i feel like ego death is just a buzz word nowadays and many fail to understand the ego is very needed.

 

[northape]

i feel like ego death is just a buzz word nowadays and many fail to understand the ego is very needed.

Post in thread 'Stories from the Net'

Saturday at 1:38 PM

One more translation to ponder:

---

The Proper Attitude Toward the Ego, or Do Not Engage in Battle with Your Own Shadow!

Based on the understanding that the ego is the root of suffering, many mistakenly assume that the goal of spirituality lies in reining in and destroying the ego. They attempt to throw off its iron grip, but as it turns out later, this very struggle is merely another expression of the ego. (Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche)

Excessive desires are always accompanied by aversion. One must overcome ignorance regarding this. It was precisely this dialectic to which the...

• northape

 

[universecannon]

It’s the white light. It’s unmistakable when it happens. LSD is more prone to it than many other substances. LSD is THE drug of mystics imo because of these qualities it has. It’s special.

I'm not sure why exactly, but LSD does feel very special, and is underrated among psychonauts in general in some ways. I think repeated work with it can transform the results dramatically, not to mention it's far more physically functional than probably any other psychedelic. It also seems more conducive for "re-programming" deeply conditioned behavior and ingrained ways of thinking than anything else for me personally. But it's all about how you use it.

 

[Jamie01]

Acid is like a diamond in the rough.

I don’t view it as a lab creation. I view it as a gift bestowed upon humanity from above. Maybe Hoffman was entirely honest about his dreams about LSD-25. Who knows.

Acid changed a generation. It sparked this whole thing for the west…and it did not need outside cultural influences or traditions. It was THE thing…pure..unadulterated.

I think the evolution from ergot to LSD was supposed to happen. It’s a true evolution. A perfection of a sacrament. A new, sharper lens for a mystery eons old.

 

[Mimosaquero]

Acid is like a diamond in the rough.

I don’t view it as a lab creation. I view it as a gift bestowed upon humanity from above. Maybe Hoffman was entirely honest about his dreams about LSD-25. Who knows.

Acid changed a generation. It sparked this whole thing for the west…and it did not need outside cultural influences or traditions. It was THE thing…pure..unadulterated.

I think the evolution from ergot to LSD was supposed to happen. It’s a true evolution. A perfection of a sacrament. A new, sharper lens for a mystery eons old.

reminds me of the ayahuasca folklore i heard when i was in the amazon, that the plants were destined to be combined and people thousands of years ago saw it in their dreams before it was discovered.