No need for government?

[Parshvik Chintan]

What happens when the world's beer supply is controlled by a very few? Who provides oversight?

the people growing the hops/what have you provide oversight over the growing of the hops.
the people brewing the beer are in charge of overseeing the brewing of the beer.
i think you can see where i am going with this...

Who prevents price gouging? Who makes sure that the beer isn't tainted with hexavalent chromium?

i guess we will just have to make it a point to keep oxidizing chromium away from the beer:roll:
and ideally currency will become an outdated nothingness.
though i do realize the fact that it is almost impossibly unlikely to happen.
but the payment for the brewer would be brewed beer.
the payment for the farmer would be seeds for his new crops.
in this manner no price CAN be gouged

 

[Bill Cipher]

And what happens when the brewers decide they can cut out the middlemen by slaughtering the hops growers?

 

[Parshvik Chintan]

And what happens when the brewers decide they can cut out the middlemen by slaughtering the hops growers?

then they have twice as much work to do.
tend the crops AND brew the beer.
but if they wanted to do that they could have just asked.
we can always have the other farmers switch over to entheogens

 

[BananaForeskin]

My take on it is that the progression of society which you describe, and which requires a formal "government", is what has led up to the destruction of the planet. There's much more to be said on the issue, but that's the basis of my understanding.

How do you come to that conclusion? What is inherent in government as a concept, that makes the planet go bad?

I see it as the faulting of capitalism and the pursuit of personal prosperity above all others.

It's not inherent government as a concept, it's the drive for progress which has lead to institutionalized government which has lead to modernization which has lead to the destruction of the planet... you see where I'm going here?

You saw the creation of formal "government" as a natural and necessary result of technological/social progress, you mentioned that in your first post. I'm simply saying that I find fault with the original drive for technological/social progress, and so discussing formal government in that context seems like a moot point. If we're going to save the planet (excuse the rhetoric) it's going to take a fuck of a lot more (and need it a lot faster) than thinking out governmental systems.

It's totally irrelevant in face of the general shift of human consciousness necessary... infrastructure and taxes aren't going to keep the ice caps from melting or the oceans from acidifying, the only thing that MIGHT help is convincing a big chunk of that world that you DON'T need a car, a cell phone and meat three times a day, or the latest shoes. We, each one, need to revert to a way of life that has less impact on the planet.

And the modern institutional government's goal is to acquire wealth for itself, its contributors, and/or its people, whilst perpetuating the above. This is contrary to the statement immediately previous.

THAT is why I inherently do not like the government. The governments, both of my country of residence and of citizenship, have a general goal which is directly opposed to my own.

 

[Parshvik Chintan]

It's not inherent government as a concept, it's the drive for progress which has lead to institutionalized government which has lead to modernization which has lead to the destruction of the planet... you see where I'm going here?

You saw the creation of formal "government" as a natural and necessary result of technological/social progress, you mentioned that in your first post. I'm simply saying that I find fault with the original drive for technological/social progress, and so discussing formal government in that context seems like a moot point. If we're going to save the planet (excuse the rhetoric) it's going to take a fuck of a lot more (and need it a lot faster) than thinking out governmental systems.

It's totally irrelevant in face of the general shift of human consciousness necessary... infrastructure and taxes aren't going to keep the ice caps from melting or the oceans from acidifying, the only thing that MIGHT help is convincing a big chunk of that world that you DON'T need a car, a cell phone and meat three times a day, or the latest shoes. We, each one, need to revert to a way of life that has less impact on the planet.

And the modern institutional government's goal is to acquire wealth for itself, its contributors, and/or its people, whilst perpetuating the above. This is contrary to the statement immediately previous.

THAT is why I inherently do not like the government. The governments, both of my country of residence and of citizenship, have a general goal which is directly opposed to my own.

that is one possible solution.
but the probability of that happening is hovering at around 0%

in all likelihood, we will continue to fly closer to the sun until we get burned. only then will we work on fixing our burn and dropping altitude.

 

[Voidwalk]

The government was only ever meant to be there to protect its citizens rights and safety, it is doing much the opposite and using the right it has for "protection" as it's reasoning, hence why people blindly accept it.

 

[alive]

And the modern institutional government's goal is to acquire wealth for itself, its contributors, and/or its people, whilst perpetuating the above. This is contrary to the statement immediately previous.

The government was only ever meant to be there to protect its citizens rights and safety, it is doing much the opposite and using the right it has for "protection" as it's reasoning, hence why people blindly accept it.

Both of the above: Your reasoning is specific to one (or more) current, faulty government. Not with the concept of government itself.

Our current governments are shaped by the idea that they compete against others in a big world, and stem from the assumption that there is "OURS vs THEIRS" and that we need more of OURS so that THEY don't "win". You see? It's not government that is evil, it is the people, who form the government, who are misled. It is the concepts these governments are formed upon that are to fail. We still need government, but need new goals for government to fulfill.

If we were to form one global government with one common goal of providing a good planet for EVERYONE, government would be a body that has the task of organizing and providing the necessary planning oversight to achieve the greatest things we can't even possibly imagine right now.

Imagine a planet with no government - how would you then organize things like public libraries and public hospitals? People would be like, no, i have my own books and my own medicinal knowledge. A government-less "everybody is his own" planet would reward hoarders and punish selflessness. A few people would be really well off, but most would be miserable. Much like it is today.

You would need a way to provide for a good place for a doctor to practice and ways to give him the needed materials and inventory. Things like this don't just happen because someone decided to give the guy an MRI scanner out of his own volition. You would need someone to use a pool of common resources to build the scanner from, and some governing body to keep track of what places need a scanner produced, and a governing body to make sure nobody is hoarding scanners (or whatever, what kind of twisted person would do that?)

Government is not "the people who try to decide over your life". They are "the peoples way of organizing". With 7.000.000.000 people, how do you suppose we live together without organization to provide food, water, health, education for everyone?

In nature, things just form clumps of stuff. Bubbles snap together. Matter in space attracts to each other. Bees form nests. Trees grow in forests. To imagine a uniform disorganized soup of seven billion people is, excuse me, just naive.

I believe that people who claim "government = evil concept" are naive and short-sighted. You only see the current situation and can't see past that.

Yes, the current governments are imperfect. Try to see past that.

I believe in a brighter future where war and competition are obsolete.

 

[BananaForeskin]

In your opening post you were questioning the common Nexian dislike of "the" government, which is indeed a dislike of the current governments of the world... not a general dislike of human organization and teamwork. I answered your post in kind.

 

[BananaForeskin]

I believe that people who claim "government = evil concept" are naive and short-sighted. You only see the current situation and can't see past that.

Yes, the current governments are imperfect. Try to see past that.

I believe in a brighter future where war and competition are obsolete.

The current situation I see is that in a decade or two, and certainly within the next century, the planet may well be fucked. Where is the place for your perfect government in a world with no polar ice caps, acidic oceans, great belts of desert on the equator, mass dislocation, famine, and flood?

Or, if you don't believe in the prospect of global warming, a world with clear-cut rainforests, oil-polluted oceans, and indigenous cultures which have vanished in the melting pot of modernization?

To me, idealistic focus on fixing the current system of bureaucracy is short-sighted.

 

[smokerx]

Listen here about how good is US government and then tell me if you still pro government or not cos it will not take too long for this to get to your country as well.

plus here is some more about real face of US and UK governments and how they treat people and nations.

 

[alive]

In your opening post you were questioning the common Nexian dislike of "the" government, which is indeed a dislike of the current governments of the world... not a general dislike of human organization and teamwork. I answered your post in kind.

Ah, sorry. Of course, my wording could have been clearer. I meant to say "the idea of a government", and not "the way specific governments are today".

I don't know how we should "fix" the worlds problems without a form of government to direct the effort. I believe the whole world must unite under the collective idea that we have ONE home - and that is earth. There's no competition, there's no who's better or worse, there's just one place to live and we have to not fuck it up.

 

[BananaForeskin]

In your opening post you were questioning the common Nexian dislike of "the" government, which is indeed a dislike of the current governments of the world... not a general dislike of human organization and teamwork. I answered your post in kind.

Ah, sorry. Of course, my wording could have been clearer. I meant to say "the idea of a government", and not "the way specific governments are today".

I don't know how we should "fix" the worlds problems without a form of government to direct the effort. I believe the whole world must unite under the collective idea that we have ONE home - and that is earth. There's no competition, there's no who's better or worse, there's just one place to live and we have to not fuck it up.

Well, we're in agreement there! After that it's just a matter of semantics.

 

[polytrip]

If tests for psychopathy and narcissism would be mandatory for any government job, then the world would be a radically different place. Then governments might actually function effectively and they might actually keep their noses out of everything that´s not their busines.

unfortunately, people who like to stick their noses in stuff that is not their busines, often have a natural inclination to work for organisations that allow them to wallow in their narcissistic grandeur.

 

[Parshvik Chintan]

If tests for psychopathy and narcissism would be mandatory for any government job, then the world would be a radically different place. Then governments might actually function effectively and they might actually keep their noses out of everything that´s not their busines.

unfortunately, people who like to stick their noses in stuff that is not their busines, often have a natural inclination to work for organisations that allow them to wallow in their narcissistic grandeur.

it would appear that is only 1/5th the problem...
"power corrupts"

i think if any of us were given the same obstacles and choices, we would end up pretty close to the same place.
but maybe if i point my finger HARDER at them...
hmm...

 

[Purges]

The sooner the general populous is involved in decision making the better I say. The impression I get from Politicians these days is that it is some big game. I remember going on a school trip to the Houses of Parliament at around the time we were planning to go to war with Iraq (again) and being utterly sickened / disappointed at what I saw. For the most part it was just posturing, name calling and jeering. Childish really, I'm surprised anything gets done.

 

[polytrip]

The sooner the general populous is involved in decision making the better I say. The impression I get from Politicians these days is that it is some big game. I remember going on a school trip to the Houses of Parliament at around the time we were planning to go to war with Iraq (again) and being utterly sickened / disappointed at what I saw. For the most part it was just posturing, name calling and jeering. Childish really, I'm surprised anything gets done.

Politicians have one dream: power without responsibility. It´s an ego thing. They just want to be top-dog without having to bear the costs.
There´s not much more to it than that.

And not thát much get´s done. That´s why america has lost it´s financial AAA-status.