official extraction help thread

[psilocybin]

Any questions or problems you may run into during an extraction can be asked to get other members input in this thread.

 

[the_Architect]

EXTRACTION HELP NEEDED
Max Ion Tek

I have a 5L beautiful glass container with a conic shape.

I´d like to know:

1_ What is the maximun amount of MHRB I can use using Cybs Max Ion Tek, with the 5L glass container? (I was thinking around 600gr)

2_ What amount of salt should I use?

3_ How many pulls of naptha, what amount of naptha should I use in each pull, should it be freeze precipitated all at once or in different pyrex trays?

I usually do the pulls with the basic solution at room temperature, and warm naptha.
I tried Max Ion Tek (thank you Cyb for enlighting us with your wisdom) for a small amount of 100 gr. of MHRB and got a yield of 1,35%, despite having made some mistakes with the recipe and not having propper equipment and chems.

I remember something from highschool chemistry, some solvent-solution ratios are linear, other are logaritmic... This is not my area of expertise, I assume I can´t just take a recipe which uses a 1L container, then applying it to a 5L container by multiplying all the amounts x5...

Thank you for your time.

 

[melotikaci]

EXTRACTION HELP NEEDED
Max Ion Tek

I have a 5L beautiful glass container with a conic shape.

I´d like to know:

1_ What is the maximun amount of MHRB I can use using Cybs Max Ion Tek, with the 5L glass container? (I was thinking around 600gr)

2_ What amount of salt should I use?

3_ How many pulls of naptha, what amount of naptha should I use in each pull, should it be freeze precipitated all at once or in different pyrex trays?

I usually do the pulls with the basic solution at room temperature, and warm naptha.
I tried Max Ion Tek (thank you Cyb for enlighting us with your wisdom) for a small amount of 100 gr. of MHRB and got a yield of 1,35%, despite having made some mistakes with the recipe and not having propper equipment and chems.

I remember something from highschool chemistry, some solvent-solution ratios are linear, other are logaritmic... This is not my area of expertise, I assume I can´t just take a recipe which uses a 1L container, then applying it to a 5L container by multiplying all the amounts x5...

Thank you for your time.

I would strongly advice against doing extraction with all of your mhrb at once. Even though you have experience with extraction, there's a chance of screwing up something, especially with that amount, and you don't want to waste all of your product. Multiple 100g extractions would be much less risky, and you can split your mhrb in 6 seperate dishes and extract simultaneously if you are in a hurry.

and if you still insist it, I would say(NOTE: Not very competent in scaling up teks):
1. 300-400gr ( you need space for lye,water,salt,solvent)
2. dont remember whats recommended amount for 100gr
3. you'll need continue pulling as long as there's anything left in your soup. do not increase naphtha amount per pull.

 

[pitubo]

1_ What is the maximun amount of MHRB I can use using Cybs Max Ion Tek, with the 5L glass container? (I was thinking around 600gr)

That size of extraction is not supported on this forum. Both because the amounts of resulting product are not needed strictly for personal use and because handling these amounts of caustic liquid and flammable solvents is generally not safe. These are good reasons why the teks describe extractions on 100 grams of plant material. The above mentioned "don't put all your eggs in one basket is another good reason.

PS: Please refrain from using colors that are hard to read against the default dark background (unless you don't care about being read.)

 

[the_Architect]

Thank you for your advice melotikaci and pitubo.
I´ve decided to continue using 100 gr. of plant in a smaller container, it feels safer and more confortable to handle smaller amounts of chems.

 

[Aeolus]

1_ What is the maximun amount of MHRB I can use using Cybs Max Ion Tek, with the 5L glass container? (I was thinking around 600gr)

That size of extraction is not supported on this forum. Both because the amounts of resulting product are not needed strictly for personal use and because handling these amounts of caustic liquid and flammable solvents is generally not safe. These are good reasons why the teks describe extractions on 100 grams of plant material. The above mentioned "don't put all your eggs in one basket is another good reason.

PS: Please refrain from using colors that are hard to read against the default dark background (unless you don't care about being read.)

I have heard of multiple instances of FOAFs on the forum extracting larger amounts at a time to stockpile for subsequent usage, with no intention to sell. 600g is a fairly reasonable amount of MHRB to order (suspicion would not be drawn until well beyond the 1kg mark).

I agree 100% extractions should be done in smaller amounts (50-100g), but for practical concerns. There are certainly conditions that could justify a well-intentioned FOAF to extract larger amounts - limited access to a station for extraction, avoidance of DMT N-Oxide, efficiency, etc.

If the intention is to prevent commercial selling of DMT (clearly very harmful), potentially even 2g of DMT could be sold at a profit, so it is unknown why 6x the usual extraction becomes the marker for commercial. Certainly 20+ years worth of DMT in one extraction would be ordinarily unjustifiable, but the 12g extracted from 600g MHRB would not necessarily presuppose ill intent -- it may last a few years for an individual, or maybe just a year if the individual is to share the DMT with a close circle of trusted friends for usage on case by case basis.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

 

[Drowning-man]

A set of theoretical questions (and apologies if these are somewhere in the FAQ);

Does the length of time that solvent sits on base tea (between rolls) increase crossover of the molecule into the solvent?

Does the solvent need to 'make contact' with as much base tea as possible - or is this mostly a chemical transference from polar to non-polar?

Is there an optimum method of agitation? Stirring seems to work and dos not run the risk of emulsification but I ma wondering if this is sufficient

thanks in advance,

Flux

In order, to the best of my limited knowledge :

1.negligible most likely. Any freebase DMT that migrated to the top of the soup *might* pass into the nps layer, but it would have to be in contact. I have left an nps layer sit for some time and noticed no greater amount in the pull than average.

In fact, I've always had a worry that if I do not pull the nps immediately after agitation that some spice may migrate back into the soup. This is due to my chemistry ignorance, I doubt if that's possible once it is freebase into a base solution.

I have not performed an experiment with no agitation to see.

2 ys, this is addressed somewhere on the forum. I had a hard time understanding proportions for awhile, thinking that the was some magic formula of water, base etc to get all the goods out. FWIU now, it is all about consistency of the soup, you want it to be non viscous enough for, yes, the nps to come into contact with the freebase DMT molecules so that it picks them up. There is an optimum mix, but it has more to do with viscosity than anything. I don't separate the plant material usually, ala Cyb's, so I make a pretty watery, flow-ey mix.

3.the ol 'bicycle pedal' along with actually rolling an alembic on the floor (wrapped in a towel) is my method.

Pardon if I got too scientific in my terminology.

So what is your opinion on magnetic stirrirs and the ability for dmt to transfer to solvent? It sounds like it would cut many hours of physical labor and time, specificaly for solvent pulls/saltings. But is it really enough contact/mixing between NP/soup layer to catch everything?

 

[JefFlux]

I have been thinking of a magnetic stirrer too Drowning-man, they are cheap enough too.
I have had plenty of successful yields from stirring alone and no great increase from rolling. I think perhpas this is the vortex effect , I still confounds me though as (most of?) the solvent layer maintains its separate layer on top of the base tea ..and this is why I feel more comfortable doing this as I know that no emulsion will form

 

[Psilosopher?]

I used a mag stirrer. It was ok, but would often get jammed and cease to spin. Now, i've invested in a ultrasonic water bath.

 

[JefFlux]

Jammed with what...was this a STB ? as an A/B will have a fairly non-viscous consistency.
An ultra-sonic cleaning bath sounds good though... have used them for sterilisation purposes in the past

 

[Psilosopher?]

Jammed with what...was this a STB ? as an A/B will have a fairly non-viscous consistency.
An ultra-sonic cleaning bath sounds good though... have used them for sterilisation purposes in the past

Jammed with the weight of the root bark suspended in the acidic solution. Bear in mind, that this is a fairly cheap mag stirrer. Less than $200, so the quality isn't the greatest, but it got the job done.

 

[swimer]

so swim have some experience with first CYB tek and now would like to move to max ion. He has all the equipment ready so would like to proceed with it as precise as possible so here are some question from him mainly about the temeprature:

maaterial he will be using: 50g mhrb

Acidyfiy:

- he could only find 10% vinegar in his country. How much water should he add to the vessel and how much vinegar? He has ph metter.
- what temperature should be the heat bath during this 8 hours? 55c droping to 40c will be good?

Defat:

- can be skipped right? Will it effect yield?

Salinate:

- swim will be adding 80g NaCL to 200ml hot water. He is wondering what temperature should the water have? Should he top up the 800g with same temperature water?

Base:

- again he wants to know temperature of the water. Cool means 15c? During the heatbath should the temperature again be same as during acidify? 55c droping to 40c ?

Pull:

- Swim will boil water in a pan, turn it off, put strainer in it and place a jar with NPS so it will not touch the bottom. What temperature should be the NPS when he takes it out? Swim is bit worried about heating NPS.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

@swimer: yes to pretty much all of above.

- he could only find 10% vinegar in his country. How much water should he add to the vessel and how much vinegar? He has ph metter.

Simple arithmetic. Percentages are proportions and they scale as such.

Pulling too warm pulls more gunk but yields are slightly better.

 

[null24]

I have been thinking of a magnetic stirrer too Drowning-man, they are cheap enough too.
I have had plenty of successful yields from stirring alone and no great increase from rolling. I think perhpas this is the vortex effect , I still confounds me though as (most of?) the solvent layer maintains its separate layer on top of the base tea ..and this is why I feel more comfortable doing this as I know that no emulsion will form

Necessity forced me to try the vortex method out recently, and I have to say that I agree with you on its efficiency. I did not have a proper cap for my alembic so just swirled the contents vigorously. Pulls came out cloudy straight into the baster.

So yeah, that's my new go-to method for mixing the nps into the base soup. :thumb_up:

I'm confounded too. But it works.

 

[swimer]

Thank you for help. Swim has two more questions about acidyfy step. He read that some do multiple acidyfies? Is that true? How does this work? Thought that swim should get desired Ph and move to next step? Also how much time most travelers wait before going to next step? 1h is minimum but what works best?

 

[Drowning-man]

I have been thinking of a magnetic stirrer too Drowning-man, they are cheap enough too.
I have had plenty of successful yields from stirring alone and no great increase from rolling. I think perhpas this is the vortex effect , I still confounds me though as (most of?) the solvent layer maintains its separate layer on top of the base tea ..and this is why I feel more comfortable doing this as I know that no emulsion will form

Necessity forced me to try the vortex method out recently, and I have to say that I agree with you on its efficiency. I did not have a proper cap for my alembic so just swirled the contents vigorously. Pulls came out cloudy straight into the baster.

So yeah, that's my new go-to method for mixing the nps into the base soup. :thumb_up:

I'm confounded too. But it works.

Yeah it would cut hours, possibly days of constant physical attention out of an extraction, especially for my tek. Id end up spending hours for the pulling step. This would be apsolutly amazing for ph titration. Just hang the meter into the fluid as it mixes and ad a drop at a time. Extremely Acurate ph titration with almost immediate feedback! And dont get me started on acid/zink reductions! Look Ma', no hands!

 

[Drowning-man]

@swimer: yes to pretty much all of above.

- he could only find 10% vinegar in his country. How much water should he add to the vessel and how much vinegar? He has ph metter.

Simple arithmetic. Percentages are proportions and they scale as such.

Pulling too warm pulls more gunk but yields are slightly better.

Use a crock pot for warming solvent much safer.

 

[Drowning-man]

I have been thinking of a magnetic stirrer too Drowning-man, they are cheap enough too.
I have had plenty of successful yields from stirring alone and no great increase from rolling. I think perhpas this is the vortex effect , I still confounds me though as (most of?) the solvent layer maintains its separate layer on top of the base tea ..and this is why I feel more comfortable doing this as I know that no emulsion will form

Necessity forced me to try the vortex method out recently, and I have to say that I agree with you on its efficiency. I did not have a proper cap for my alembic so just swirled the contents vigorously. Pulls came out cloudy straight into the baster.

So yeah, that's my new go-to method for mixing the nps into the base soup. :thumb_up:

I'm confounded too. But it works.

Is the acid percentage posted on bottles of acid/base by weight or volume?

 

[pitubo]

Use a crock pot for warming solvent much safer.

I am not sure what exact procedure you are advocating here, but I'll state this to be safe and certain:

When heating any flammable solvent, always do so using a pre-warmed hot water bath. Keep flammable solvents far removed from open flames and hot heating elements. Never heat flammable solvents directly in a crock pot on a stove.

 

[swimer]

Thank you for help. Swim has two more questions about acidyfy step. He read that some do multiple acidyfies? Is that true? How does this work? Thought that swim should get desired Ph and move to next step? Also how much time most travelers wait before going to next step? 1h is minimum but what works best?

Can someone answer to this?

 

[Drowning-man]

Use a crock pot for warming solvent much safer.

I am not sure what exact procedure you are advocating here, but I'll state this to be safe and certain:

When heating any flammable solvent, always do so using a pre-warmed hot water bath. Keep flammable solvents far removed from open flames and hot heating elements. Never heat flammable solvents directly in a crock pot on a stove.

Yes, im not advocating flame stoves, heating element contact or puting crock pot ON stove. Put container in water in in actual crock pot. The heating element heats from sides not bottom so it wont contact container. Also much better control of temp. Keep warm setting is only like 110F or so and you can remove inner container from heat immediatly. Maybe im in corrects. Just seemed to be a safer option. But yes pree heated water is best.