psilocybin
Rising Star
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official extraction help thread
- Thread starter psilocybin
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- dmt
Hello,
in attempts to better my extraction techniques i attempted Q21Q21's Vinegar + Lime tek.
However, i neither have vinegar nor lime.
I do have HCL Acid and Sodium Hydroxide.
Can i mix say, 2ml 30% HCL @ 200ml H2O and use this for my vinegar? The thing about vinegar is a mildly acidic solution, or does it have other properties that are desirable?
And to basify it i would have to add lime, however, i got no lime. Again, the lime serves as a means of basifying, i could achieve this with (less) sodium hydroxide.
Or is there an inherent flaw in my chemical substitution that would make this not work out at all?
in attempts to better my extraction techniques i attempted Q21Q21's Vinegar + Lime tek.
However, i neither have vinegar nor lime.
I do have HCL Acid and Sodium Hydroxide.
Can i mix say, 2ml 30% HCL @ 200ml H2O and use this for my vinegar? The thing about vinegar is a mildly acidic solution, or does it have other properties that are desirable?
And to basify it i would have to add lime, however, i got no lime. Again, the lime serves as a means of basifying, i could achieve this with (less) sodium hydroxide.
Or is there an inherent flaw in my chemical substitution that would make this not work out at all?
arimane
Rising Star
HCl should work just fine, but carefull with managing it. It is a tek ment to be done with no particoular safe equipment, so adjust yourself.
For the basification, I'm not sure the NaOH would work. To have the pH to that level you should use really little, I don't know if it would come in close contact with all the MHRB, and making it freebase.
I THINK, if you use little and diluite it very well (ph will not change much with diluition, so you can put much water for really little NaOH), it can work.
But it seems pretty streange to me, that you can't get some vinegar, may I ask you how can it be?
For the basification, I'm not sure the NaOH would work. To have the pH to that level you should use really little, I don't know if it would come in close contact with all the MHRB, and making it freebase.
I THINK, if you use little and diluite it very well (ph will not change much with diluition, so you can put much water for really little NaOH), it can work.
But it seems pretty streange to me, that you can't get some vinegar, may I ask you how can it be?
Ellis D'Empty
Snirfneblin
Ok, I got a few questions.
My first pull, I evaporated it so I can freeze precip. it. After evaporating (there was NOTHING left over on the pan only residual naphtha left over from pouring the rest back into the jar) is this normal?
I then put that jar in the freezer.
My second pull, I put directly into the freezer hoping to see some cloudiness. I saw none, all that formed were these yellow/off-white "crud-formations" on the bottom.
A picture of that is here: http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/4110/crudr.jpg
Is THIS normal? I didn't evap anything down on the second one, just threw it right into the freezer, as I'm starting to think maybe it didn't draw out any actives?
I dunno... I'm hoping it worked, but when I added the naphtha to the jars, it seems to me that the "mixture" of MHRB/Lye/water is to thick... and the naphtha didn't quite get in there, even after vigorous shaking....
My first pull, I evaporated it so I can freeze precip. it. After evaporating (there was NOTHING left over on the pan only residual naphtha left over from pouring the rest back into the jar) is this normal?
I then put that jar in the freezer.
My second pull, I put directly into the freezer hoping to see some cloudiness. I saw none, all that formed were these yellow/off-white "crud-formations" on the bottom.
A picture of that is here: http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/4110/crudr.jpg
Is THIS normal? I didn't evap anything down on the second one, just threw it right into the freezer, as I'm starting to think maybe it didn't draw out any actives?
I dunno... I'm hoping it worked, but when I added the naphtha to the jars, it seems to me that the "mixture" of MHRB/Lye/water is to thick... and the naphtha didn't quite get in there, even after vigorous shaking....
just a few questions involving my future extraction..
i plan on doing an A/B extraction with mimosa (my previous extractions were STB)
1. would betaine HCl capsules (for human consumption) be an allowable source of acid?
-they have a small amount of pepsin and some inactive ingredients. i figure i could just add capsules to water and measure pH to find the appropriate amount.
2. what would be the best method to yield separate DMT and jungle spice using xylene and acetone?
-i bought xylene and acetone at a hardware store, and would rather not buy any other solvents. i was thinking of using xylene to extract all the alkaloids, then using acetone to separate the DMT from the jungle spice, would this work?
i plan on doing an A/B extraction with mimosa (my previous extractions were STB)
1. would betaine HCl capsules (for human consumption) be an allowable source of acid?
-they have a small amount of pepsin and some inactive ingredients. i figure i could just add capsules to water and measure pH to find the appropriate amount.
2. what would be the best method to yield separate DMT and jungle spice using xylene and acetone?
-i bought xylene and acetone at a hardware store, and would rather not buy any other solvents. i was thinking of using xylene to extract all the alkaloids, then using acetone to separate the DMT from the jungle spice, would this work?
SPB said:
I'd steer clear of those capsules and just use distilled white vinegar. HCl is a shiity acid to use with DMT IMO, and you definitely don't want it adulterated.
I'm pretty sure that both jungle and NN are soluble in acetone, so that won't work for separation. You need something more selective like naptha or heptane.
I wouldn't plan on pulling with xylene without having first pulled with naptha either, if that's what you have in mind. Every time I've heard of this being tried, it's a gooey mess.
No. Acetone won't separate from the water.
YoungClandestineChemist
Rising Star
I'm using QT's famous extraction guide and I'm unclear on a few things.
This is my second (ever) attempt at this. I tried several years ago and from memory, ran into the same problem.
Method: A/B
Starting material: acacia longifolia (leaves) about 2 oz
Acid solution: 3 parts distilled water, 1 part white vinegar
Defatting solvent: white spirit
Base solution: distilled water and sodium hydroxide
Extraction solvent: (warmed) naptha
When I'm basifying the solution I'm noticing a significant change in colour and odour from a deep yellow (like honey) smelling of vinegar to a dark, rich crimson with a brownish tinge giving off a synthetic, chemically, plastic-like smell. This happens when the pH reaches about 8 or 9. I continue to bring the pH up to about 10-11.
Here's what I don't understand. Once I've added the warm naptha to the aqueous solution I've tried several methods of combining. Shake hard and fast for 5 mins forms a very thick, gel-like layer orange in colour that doesn't seem to want to separate at all. When I place the jar in very hot water for a few hours and stir gently it starts to drift apart but still doesn't look right. When I tilt the jar back and forth gently I get larger bubbles forming in the top layer which separate out quite well but I'm still confused because I now notice three layers.
Along the bottom the dark-red.
The top is clear naptha.
Floating along the surface of the dark-red is this grey/orange gooey layer resembling bubbles just sort of 'bobbing' away there on it's own, not seeming to want to be a part of either the bottom or top layers. Is this the spice?
I did try freeze precipitation and evaporation with the naptha when I shook hard for 5-10 mins forming the thick orange gel-like layer. When this happened I could very clearly see two layers in the jar: bottom dark-red liquid, top thick orange gel. I proceeded to separate this top layer and divide it in half (roughly). I then chucked half in the freezer and the other half on a glass dish out in the sun.
After only a very short while the freezer contents had formed very clear orange crystals in the bottom with plenty of liquid naptha swirling around it. I poured off the naptha and returned to crystals to room temp and they just melted, still smelling strongly of naptha. I waited for the naptha to evaporate, scraped up the now hardened goo which collected into like a dark red waxy substance. The lot I had evaporating outside resulted in what seemed like a very thin layer or crystals across the bottom of the glass dish but once I scraped it up again, dark red waxy goo. I'm thinking of trying something else for final extraction, like DCM.
Not sure what's going on :?:
This is my second (ever) attempt at this. I tried several years ago and from memory, ran into the same problem.
Method: A/B
Starting material: acacia longifolia (leaves) about 2 oz
Acid solution: 3 parts distilled water, 1 part white vinegar
Defatting solvent: white spirit
Base solution: distilled water and sodium hydroxide
Extraction solvent: (warmed) naptha
When I'm basifying the solution I'm noticing a significant change in colour and odour from a deep yellow (like honey) smelling of vinegar to a dark, rich crimson with a brownish tinge giving off a synthetic, chemically, plastic-like smell. This happens when the pH reaches about 8 or 9. I continue to bring the pH up to about 10-11.
Here's what I don't understand. Once I've added the warm naptha to the aqueous solution I've tried several methods of combining. Shake hard and fast for 5 mins forms a very thick, gel-like layer orange in colour that doesn't seem to want to separate at all. When I place the jar in very hot water for a few hours and stir gently it starts to drift apart but still doesn't look right. When I tilt the jar back and forth gently I get larger bubbles forming in the top layer which separate out quite well but I'm still confused because I now notice three layers.
Along the bottom the dark-red.
The top is clear naptha.
Floating along the surface of the dark-red is this grey/orange gooey layer resembling bubbles just sort of 'bobbing' away there on it's own, not seeming to want to be a part of either the bottom or top layers. Is this the spice?
I did try freeze precipitation and evaporation with the naptha when I shook hard for 5-10 mins forming the thick orange gel-like layer. When this happened I could very clearly see two layers in the jar: bottom dark-red liquid, top thick orange gel. I proceeded to separate this top layer and divide it in half (roughly). I then chucked half in the freezer and the other half on a glass dish out in the sun.
After only a very short while the freezer contents had formed very clear orange crystals in the bottom with plenty of liquid naptha swirling around it. I poured off the naptha and returned to crystals to room temp and they just melted, still smelling strongly of naptha. I waited for the naptha to evaporate, scraped up the now hardened goo which collected into like a dark red waxy substance. The lot I had evaporating outside resulted in what seemed like a very thin layer or crystals across the bottom of the glass dish but once I scraped it up again, dark red waxy goo. I'm thinking of trying something else for final extraction, like DCM.
Not sure what's going on :?:
That is an emulsion, which is like a mixture of your naphtha and the basic layer. Check out the FAQ for how to settle emulsions/separate layers (more base, add pure salt, vibration and warm bath)
You probably put to freeze your naphtha with part of the emulsion, meaning there is a lot of the polar impurities (And sodium hydroxide), and thats why it was the orange goo. Next time dont shake, just stir when mixing. Also now what you need to do is redissolve your final product in warm vinegar solution, re-basify, and re-extract, and freeze again. This way you'll get rid of the impurities and have your clean dmt crystals
good luck and let us know how it went.
You probably put to freeze your naphtha with part of the emulsion, meaning there is a lot of the polar impurities (And sodium hydroxide), and thats why it was the orange goo. Next time dont shake, just stir when mixing. Also now what you need to do is redissolve your final product in warm vinegar solution, re-basify, and re-extract, and freeze again. This way you'll get rid of the impurities and have your clean dmt crystals
good luck and let us know how it went.
YoungClandestineChemist said:
Don't use the QT tek. It doesn't work.
When I first took on the journey years ago I used QT's tek it was why me and several other wrote our own teks because it is problematic at best.
jblazingnataraja
Rising Star
I like that ^ the evolution of teks...straight from the people who tweaked them.
I have a question - if I've had an amazing 1st pull, and 2nd pull was good - if I put them in the freezer for 8-12 hours, crashing a fair amount of DMT, then pour around 60ml off with some new solvent into my jug to use as a pull - is there any chance the DMT from this saturated "recycled" pull will migrate back into the mimosa soup?? I'm thinking that it isn't, but just asking as some of you know more chemistry dynamics than me, it's been a while since I used any theory. THanks
I have a question - if I've had an amazing 1st pull, and 2nd pull was good - if I put them in the freezer for 8-12 hours, crashing a fair amount of DMT, then pour around 60ml off with some new solvent into my jug to use as a pull - is there any chance the DMT from this saturated "recycled" pull will migrate back into the mimosa soup?? I'm thinking that it isn't, but just asking as some of you know more chemistry dynamics than me, it's been a while since I used any theory. THanks
YoungClandestineChemist
Rising Star
Wow, thanks for all the replies. endlessness I have a followup question.
If all one has to do to eliminate the impurites is dissolve,re-basify,re-extract then why don't people do this more often? i.e. shake the bajeezus out of it, extract the impure emulsion, freeze,dissolve,re-basify etc. I'm thinking this might make the re-extraction phase so much easier and allow for a larger volume of naptha to come in contact with the basified solution during the first extraction.
vovin I checked out your tek - fresh my man, big ups
If all one has to do to eliminate the impurites is dissolve,re-basify,re-extract then why don't people do this more often? i.e. shake the bajeezus out of it, extract the impure emulsion, freeze,dissolve,re-basify etc. I'm thinking this might make the re-extraction phase so much easier and allow for a larger volume of naptha to come in contact with the basified solution during the first extraction.
vovin I checked out your tek - fresh my man, big ups
YoungClandestineChemist said:
I do it quite regularly. It is fun. It takes some experience and proper equipment, otherwise there may be substantial losses.
YoungClandestineChemist said:
Instead of shaking I use magnetic stirrer. It can run completely unattended. If you run it on low there is no emulsion at all. Why create more troubles than necessary? Even if you decide to re-extract your product, better input always means better output.
Not really getting any replies in my extraction thread so can anyone here tell me if re-Xing after doing Q21's tek (w/naphtha) is necessary?
I have nice white/clear crystals, they give of a vibe of shiny purity, but im not sure if Lime is at all soluble in naphtha & if that would be nasty to smoke
Im not bothered about growing big crystals just yet as they're gonna be crushed to release trapped solvent anyway...
On a side note i can't stop looking at my beautiful harvest of crystals :d
I have nice white/clear crystals, they give of a vibe of shiny purity, but im not sure if Lime is at all soluble in naphtha & if that would be nasty to smoke
Im not bothered about growing big crystals just yet as they're gonna be crushed to release trapped solvent anyway...
On a side note i can't stop looking at my beautiful harvest of crystals :d
Cheers, the last one (no4) is very important, i feel what i have is very pure, im happy with it so will go for it... it is very powdered & i cut it several times with a razor to get it very fine & allowed all naphtha to evap for about 2 hours after chopping it up.
I should do an evap test but i've been using behlen naphtha & i read a few people saying its very clean, it's still no excuse for not doing it myself really, i may leave a tray evapping tommorrow just to make sure...
I should be sampling it over this weekend, can't bloody wait! I got a huge smile just thinking about it...
I really like the feeling of taking DMT that i've extracted myself, it just adds something special to the experience
I've seen you use Q21's tek endlessness (unless i misread/mixed up a post) do you usually re-X afterwards?
Also, while im asking
any tips on not losing Naphtha in the mix? Add more lime to make the mix very dry?
I should do an evap test but i've been using behlen naphtha & i read a few people saying its very clean, it's still no excuse for not doing it myself really, i may leave a tray evapping tommorrow just to make sure...
I should be sampling it over this weekend, can't bloody wait! I got a huge smile just thinking about it...
I really like the feeling of taking DMT that i've extracted myself, it just adds something special to the experience
I've seen you use Q21's tek endlessness (unless i misread/mixed up a post) do you usually re-X afterwards?
Also, while im asking
any tips on not losing Naphtha in the mix? Add more lime to make the mix very dry?
